Magic/Holy/Whatever sites/loactions

[Prak]

Right, so in some of the later 3.5 books, WotC included a kinda cool new type of reward: magic locations.

You find a location, fulfill it's requirements (arcane casting and specific spells for magical locations, a task for a holy site, etc), and you get a benefit.

Cool, right?


Here's the idiotic part: the benefits have durations.

So you trek out to Bigby's tomb, and gain a spell like abilty, and after a year you lose it. Or you clear out a ruined dwarven mine (Cold Forge of Moradin) and defend it against evil for 24 hours, and your sword can bypass DR as if it were silver, cold iron and adamantine for a week. If you clear out another one in close proximity, your sword gets the Bane, Holy and Axiomatic qualities. For a week.


...what the fuck? Why the hell was wizards so stingy with these? The benefit from spending eight hours reading in Boccob's reading room is seriously just scribing a spell into your book for free. It's the only benefit I've seen that doesn't have a duration.

So basically, you get some pocket change worth of an ability permanently, or you get something actually cool for a stupidly short period of time.

Seriously, what the hell is with these?

[Psychic Robot]

The problem is that they're awfully campaign specific.

...what the fuck? Why the hell was wizards so stingy with these?

Gross incompetence. Though it was probably done so that the benefits were adventure-specific. I'm guessing that the dwarven mines one was done with the notion that the PCs would be facing off against enemies with DR/silver, cold iron, and/or adamantine in the near future. The benefit thus allows them to fight those enemies effectively without dropping in a load of loot. Think of what would happen if silver, cold iron, and adamantine weapons were suddenly thrown into the game: the PCs would invariably sell them and buy different, better equipment, defeating their purpose.

[RobbyPants]

I think PR is right about them being adventure specific.

Also, they may have this notion that since wealth = power in 3E, that you shouldn't get power without spending wealth.

Think of what would happen if silver, cold iron, and adamantine weapons were suddenly thrown into the game: the PCs would invariably sell them and buy different, better equipment, defeating their purpose.

I've seen that exact same thing happen. I had a low-level adventure planned where the PCs would fight a wererat at the end. In the first half of the adventure, I dropped a silver dagger for one of the two characters. They went back to town, sold it, and finished the adventure sans Chekhov's Gun.

Oops.

[Prak]

as for the "no power without wealth" thing, the magic sites have wealth equivalences so that a dm can drop them as loot.

other than that, I can understand the fact that players will sell special equipment thing.

but that aside, even an adventure specific reward should have a lasting effect. It's a great idea, but Wizards, once again, fucked it up.

[violence in the media]

What's wrong with them being adventure specific? Most of them seemed more like extended encounters than full-blown adventures, from what I recall.

Maybe the issue with permanent durations was having parties go around and collect ALL the abilities because why not? Once you could get to most of the locations, defeating the guardians or solving the puzzles were fairly trivial.

[TheFlatline]

If you include a wealth value for the buff, then yes, I don't see why you wouldn't make it permanent.

I don't have the problem with say a year and a day duration buffs, because by the time that year is over, unless your DM has plotted otherwise, you're going to be like 10 levels past where that buff would have been a real benefit.

Their logic for long-term buffs is probably based on the idea that since you'll cycle out all your items eventually for better items, any buff you get on you will be cycled out for something "better" via items or whatever as you go up in levels.

Even something as simple as being able to cast "light" as a 10th level caster a few times a day would be a pretty cool reward. Not necessarily super valuable, but if you're a dungeon delver, or even if you just want to light the outskirts of your camp up against baddies who might come in, it's kind of a neat bone to toss the players.

[Prak]

yeah, the issue is the durations. Honestly, if I were a wizard who'd found Boccob's Reading Room, I'd do a scry search for every single one in the world, and just make the rounds. If I were a wizard who'd found Bigby's Tomb, I'd set up a contingent teleport to take me back to the tomb when the effect ended.

[Prak]

If you include a wealth value for the buff, then yes, I don't see why you wouldn't make it permanent.

I don't have the problem with say a year and a day duration buffs, because by the time that year is over, unless your DM has plotted otherwise, you're going to be like 10 levels past where that buff would have been a real benefit.

Their logic for long-term buffs is probably based on the idea that since you'll cycle out all your items eventually for better items, any buff you get on you will be cycled out for something "better" via items or whatever as you go up in levels.

Even something as simple as being able to cast "light" as a 10th level caster a few times a day would be a pretty cool reward. Not necessarily super valuable, but if you're a dungeon delver, or even if you just want to light the outskirts of your camp up against baddies who might come in, it's kind of a neat bone to toss the players.

yeah, once again we're talking flavour abilities and those needing to be free.

[For Valor]

Maybe each "loaction" (as you put it, so eloquently) could just grant a couple SLAs/PLAs. The more dangerous the place, the better magical shit you get.

That way, a level 3 party can go to the Church of the Lightbulb Archons and come away with 3/day light, while a level 15 party can adventure into The Cave of CR 18 Monsters and Scrying Pools and leave with Scry 3/day.

How about each area granting 2 SLAs/PLAs with 3/day uses?

[Prak]

I don't know, I think making it just S/PLAs is really limiting it more than necessary. It'd be like saying fucking a nymph gives you waterbreathing 3/day rather than just the ability to breath water.

[For Valor]

mmmm... that's true.

But making it a big list of things would involve work, wouldn't it? I'm not willing to do that shit...

[Prak]

or you just do it case by case and use stuff that works for your game.

[For Valor]

So this thread was made simply to say "WotC sucks"?

[Prak]

it was more of a "why does WotC suck?" thread...

[For Valor]

oh, well then.

I suppose that was already answered. Time to gtfo.

[Prak]

or change the purpose. If we really wanted, we could turn to writing up some fixed magic locations and holy sites. Off the top of my head, I'd say it'd be good to make some Puissant Locations, or something for martial and skill characters who don't want to muck about with gods.

[For Valor]

I was about to log out, too...

About how good do you think these bonuses should be? Now that I'm thinking about it, if you're clearing out area X or doing a favor for person A, that counts as a quest. And in a quest, you level up. So how about creating a paragon level for certain areas?

[Prak]

Actually I was thinking it would just be part of the treasure, with a slight value boost for it being inherent.

[Crissa]

Frank let one of our characters take a half-elemental template for having a tryst with an elemental...

-Crissa

[Prak]

that works. I don't think the half elemental templates were all that big of a deal anyway

[TheWorid]

Off the top of my head, I'd say it'd be good to make some Puissant Locations, or something for martial and skill characters who don't want to muck about with gods.

You mean Legendary Sites from Complete Scoundrel?

[Prak]

um, sure? I hadn't actually checked that one yet because I didn't expect any to be in there.

[TheWorid]

um, sure? I hadn't actually checked that one yet because I didn't expect any to be in there.

It's the same sort of things as Magical Location, but now non-magical. The benefits are generally last a year, with a few exceptions (AKA the good ones) such as the Otyugh Hole, which permanently gives you a free feat off a small list.

[Archmage]

or change the purpose. If we really wanted, we could turn to writing up some fixed magic locations and holy sites. Off the top of my head, I'd say it'd be good to make some Puissant Locations, or something for martial and skill characters who don't want to muck about with gods.

Sounds like granting ToB maneuvers might be a more interesting option than static bonuses or temporary bonus feat use.

[For Valor]

oooh, that's a great idea, actually.

And there's so much crap over on GITP to use...