The Decline and Fall of White Wolf

[TheFlatline]

So remember how White Wolf decided that they were going to allow oWoD LARP games to rejoin the Camarilla? And remember how the announced World of Darkness MMO is going to be based on the old world of darkness?

Well, we have the next sign of a back-door ressurection of oWoD: The Vampire Translation Guide.

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_i ... s_id=86202

Yes, now you can fuck your continuity up even more by mixing and matching new WOD and old WOD into one quivering mass of fanboy angst.

I haven't read it yet, but the idea of using the new dice mechanics and the old setting is probably the best of both worlds.

It's strange to see what was once a strong contender in the RPG market relegated to servicing the ghost of a game that is years and years out of print. I wonder where they're going next? Reprints? Resurrecting the old line with new mechanics?

[FatR]

The new mechaincs suck as well. They suck differently than oWoD mechanics, and maybe a bit less (compatibility of mechanics from different gamelines is a vital improvement, at least) but they suck nonetheless.

I'd like to see some reprints, though. Or - at least - PDFs of oWoD books, including more obscure ones, on sale for a reasonable price.

I frankly don't believe WW has a team capable of putting together a new edition that does not suck, even if it will be just slapping new mechanics on the old fluff. The competence of their best current crunch writers is on the level of a houserule author, and not even a particularly good houserule author.

As about the reason for their fall, I believe the core reason is their failure to keep up with the times (oWoD appeared when AD&D 2E was the most playable game out there, standards for RPG quality changed since then in more aspects than one), but it was much aggravated by the fact, that somehow their design teams happened to be staffed by people who sucked at generating original ideas. And some of whom had quite advanced cases of badwrongfunitis, failing to see how the elements they personally didn't like could appeal to others.

[TheFlatline]

I just flipped through the book briefly, and the only real meat of it to anyone's interest is the discipline translation. Even then, it only covers the core disciplines in the big green book, and not any of the more exotic disciplines. Which is fine by me.

The first half of the 50 page book deals with some of the differences between Masquerade and Requiem, and details the clans from Masquerade. At first, it reads like an advertisement on why you should ditch Masquerade, but eventually starts warming to the different focus and scope.

The next section is how to adapt Masquerade disciplines into Requiem, and perhaps more interesting, how to do the reverse. Why you'd take the crap that is nWOD's setting and put it in the crappy mechanics of Masquerade is beyond me. But it's there. A lot of masquerade systems no longer have rolls but expenditures.

The next section deals with how the differing systems would translate between the systems. Nature and Demeanor just port straight over, and can be used in addition to virtues & vices. Not bad, and it gives you more of a framework to roleplay off of, plus an extra way to gain willpower back.

Generation basically ports over as a permanent version of Blood Potency which I felt was a cop out. If I try this conversion, I might allow generation to determine the maximum blood potency that your character is capable of.

Virtues, like self control and conscience and the ilk is not ported over to Requiem, and you calculate humanity or willpower based on the new system.

Paths of enlightenment remain unchanged from Masquerade, but use the degeneration system and dice pools that Humanity uses.

The covenants are handled a little oddly, as they suggest that these can be clan independent and they're each discussed briefly in how they'd fit into Masquerade. They could prove to be fun, operating within and even in some cases across sect alignment. It might make for a more interesting social dynamic. The Clan/Covenant breakdown in nWOD is one of the things I felt they did well.

The booklet ends with conversion rules to take a pre-existing character into either Requiem or Masquerade. I'm not particularly interested in it, but whatever.

Overall, probably 2/3 of this book is obvious stuff. Half of it is useless if you're familiar at all with both lines, and the good meat is the disciplines and unique system translations. Even then it felt kind of lackluster. There's no elegance in the translation effort, but it *does* seem servicible. I could almost certainly run a Masquerade game in Requiem. In fact, I could before. But at least this gives me some ideas on how the two might be combined, and I think the effort of such might be superior to either individual game.

Still, the book is free, and thus is a good value. More interesting though is this embrace of the old world of darkness line. Up until a year or two ago White Wolf almost sneered at the old game. Now they're cozying up to it.

[FatR]

I
Still, the book is free, and thus is a good value. More interesting though is this embrace of the old world of darkness line. Up until a year or two ago White Wolf almost sneered at the old game.

Almost sneered? As far as I remember, of all White Wolf people to post on the net, Ethan Skemp was the only one avoiding open belittling of oWoD when he tried to prove how much better their new product was.

[Username17]

If you're looking for a conversion document, the conversion document is worthless. You ca tell that right away when you read the coversion instructions for Assamites and it tells you "Maybe you'd like to make them a Covenant, ad have Quietus and/or Assamite Blood Magic be a bonus Covenant discipline like Cruac; or maybe you'd like to fit them in as a Mekhet bloodline with Quietus as a bloodline discipline; or just make them an actual bonus clan. You know, whatever. You should probably get one of the books with Assamite material in it and figure out how to port the mechanics over. Good luck with that."

But while it's clear that someone told the author to make sure to imply that nWoD was better with every comparison, the fact remains that the discussion about the differences between the two is actually fairly insightful. Although yes, it is clear that they are tap dancing around the point that no one likes nWoD fluff:

Over the six years (as of this writing) that Requiem has been supported, fans of both games have expressed the desire to use elements from one game in another. Some people feel that the game systems of Requiem are far more streamlined and functional than those of Masquerade, but that the setting material of the earlier game is still compelling. Some feel that the newer World of Darkness is, on the whole, perfectly functional, but they would like to bring back some of their favorite clans or bloodlines from Masquerade. And some players would prefer to just mix the games and see what sort of chronicle falls out.

-Username17

[cthulhu]

It's strange to see what was once a strong contender in the RPG market relegated to servicing the ghost of a game that is years and years out of print. I wonder where they're going next? Reprints? Resurrecting the old line with new mechanics?

They annouced an MMO set on oWoD - a relaunch of the orginal product line WILL happen, probably with new mchanics. No question.

[Koumei]

But we can still hope the company will go under in the next decade. And throw a party when it does.

[TheFlatline]

If you're looking for a conversion document, the conversion document is worthless. You ca tell that right away when you read the coversion instructions for Assamites and it tells you "Maybe you'd like to make them a Covenant, ad have Quietus and/or Assamite Blood Magic be a bonus Covenant discipline like Cruac; or maybe you'd like to fit them in as a Mekhet bloodline with Quietus as a bloodline discipline; or just make them an actual bonus clan. You know, whatever. You should probably get one of the books with Assamite material in it and figure out how to port the mechanics over. Good luck with that."

But while it's clear that someone told the author to make sure to imply that nWoD was better with every comparison, the fact remains that the discussion about the differences between the two is actually fairly insightful. Although yes, it is clear that they are tap dancing around the point that no one likes nWoD fluff:

Over the six years (as of this writing) that Requiem has been supported, fans of both games have expressed the desire to use elements from one game in another. Some people feel that the game systems of Requiem are far more streamlined and functional than those of Masquerade, but that the setting material of the earlier game is still compelling. Some feel that the newer World of Darkness is, on the whole, perfectly functional, but they would like to bring back some of their favorite clans or bloodlines from Masquerade. And some players would prefer to just mix the games and see what sort of chronicle falls out.

-Username17

I got to go over it a little better, and I generally agree with you. The quote is especially telling.

It was fairly anemic as a conversion document. It was either "this translates over without any issues" or it was "leave this out". The disciplines are okay but only cover what's in the core book, and the discussion on the sects varies from interesting to boring.

The beginning reads like a shine-job of nWOD, but even in that light, they have to grudgingly admit that there's more conflict and a "wider" scope than nWOD. Because playing immortal creatures who spend 2 centuries living in solitude is exciting shit.

Eh... I thought it was interesting. It's kind of where I'm asking if White Wolf is going to dance around with their hand on my ass all night or whether they'll get the balls to make their move. They're slowly courting the idea of resurrecting the old setting, but they seem to not understand that while they are portraying vampires, they don't have the luxury of immortality as a business.

[TheFlatline]

It's strange to see what was once a strong contender in the RPG market relegated to servicing the ghost of a game that is years and years out of print. I wonder where they're going next? Reprints? Resurrecting the old line with new mechanics?

They annouced an MMO set on oWoD - a relaunch of the orginal product line WILL happen, probably with new mchanics. No question.

Hey, White Wolf has done stupider things. I could totally see them launching the MMO and leaving the setting untouched.

[Username17]

You must ask which is stronger: your cynicism about White Wolf or your faith in Ryan Dancey. I could go either way.

• Best Case
  Lightning strkes twice and Ryan Dancey brings forth the "Third World of Darkness" powered by an Open Gaming License and powered by a diverse team of rules ninjas and popularih flavor writers from the past. The new edition provides a cleanish set of mechanics and a robust play experience, and also allows people to make 3rd party support for it if they want, allowing and inviting people who specifically want some of the groups that must inevitably get pruned from the new edition to get 3rd party books about obscure Vampire clans or Mage factions, or whatever. The new banner of White Wolf, held as it is by inscrutable Icelandic gaming overlords, stands tall over the world and relegates 4e D&D to a gaming footnote while books about vampires in space crowd WotC supplements out of shelf space.
  
  Worst Case
  Justin Achilli is forced at gun point to revive oWoD because people like it better. He insists on toning it down and using his crappy "combat doesn't work" rules for Requiem and we get a new version of nWoD with slightly more oWoD names recycled. No one cares, and it ends up not only failing to win over old World of Darkness fans, it alienates nWoD fans by being just different enough that they can't remember how anything works or use their old characters.

But yeah, one way or the other, they are bringing forth a new new world of darkness that has more of the old world of darkness material in it.

The Vampire Translation Guide is not a conversion document, it's an intra-office memo discussing possible tacks to take when making the new synthesis world.

-Username17

[cthulhu]

Hey, White Wolf has done stupider things. I could totally see them launching the MMO and leaving the setting untouched.

The driver won't just be WW, the game maker will want more excitement around the launch - he has to convert a significant chunk of the RPG fan base as well to get traction for his MMO. They were smart enough to know to license oWoD, so they are smart enough to know what has to happen next.

[Username17]

Hey, White Wolf has done stupider things. I could totally see them launching the MMO and leaving the setting untouched.

The driver won't just be WW, the game maker will want more excitement around the launch - he has to convert a significant chunk of the RPG fan base as well to get traction for his MMO. They were smart enough to know to license oWoD, so they are smart enough to know what has to happen next.

The game maker is White Wolf. The new White Wolf products (like the aforementioned Vampire Translation Guide) do not say "Copyright White Wolf" because White Wolf no longer exists as a company. They say:

© 2010 CCP hf. All rights reserved. Reproduction without the written permission of the publisher is expressly forbidden, except for the purposes of reviews, and one printed copy which may be reproduced for personal use only. White Wolf, Vampire and World of Darkness are registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights reserved. Vampire the Requiem, Werewolf the Forsaken, Mage the Awakening, Promethean the Created, Changeling the Lost, Hunter the Vigil, Geist the Sin Eaters, Storytelling System, Vampire the Masquerade and Vampire Translation Guide are trademarks of CCP hf. All rights reserved. All characters, names, places and text herein are copyrighted by CCP hf. CCP North America Inc. is a wholly owned subsidiary of CCP hf. The mention of or reference to any company or product in these pages is not a challenge to the trademark or copyright concerned. This book uses the supernatural for settings, characters and themes. All mystical and supernatural elements are fiction and intended for entertainment purposes only. This book contains mature content. Reader discretion is advised.

-Username17

[cthulhu]

Yeah, I did know that had been brought by CCP (okay it was a merger.. but if CCP is owned by their orginal owners, and WW is owned by them.. CCP brought WW).

Anyway, point still stands, for CCP to buy the company and announce a oWoD MMO two years after the nWoD core books came out, they know nWoD is a loser, and have for 4 years. Also makes for some weird internal politics at WW.

[magnuskn]

The only questions I have are:

1.) What the fuck took them so long? Everybody I know hates nWoD with a burning passion and remembers oWoD fondly.

2.) Will they be wise enough to shitcan Achilli, who, IMO, was the driving force for every shitty change in both versions of the WoD ( including erasing Robert Weinbergs contribution to canon and not having him write the third trilogy of novels )?

[TheFlatline]

The only questions I have are:

1.) What the fuck took them so long? Everybody I know hates nWoD with a burning passion and remembers oWoD fondly.

2.) Will they be wise enough to shitcan Achilli, who, IMO, was the driving force for every shitty change in both versions of the WoD ( including erasing Robert Weinbergs contribution to canon and not having him write the third trilogy of novels )?

1. Ego is a strange thing. Nobody wants to admit that they got on board the failboat. What's even stranger is that they've hit the 5-6 year mark with this version of WoD and aren't anywhere near announcing a new version. They're probably hoping to release it along side the MMO if they are planning to, but if they're at the stage where they can't even show alpha/concept art to the public, they're *years* away from a launch date.

2. Yeah right. If he's been on board for 10 years or so now, he ain't going nowhere.

[Username17]

Concept art in World of Darkness is churned out constantly. If it's based on oWoD (and they'd be nuts to do it any other way), then they already have passable symbols for most of the clans. Only a few of them need new and better ones (Lasombra and Tzimisce, for example, just have a fucking letter). They produce fanart of sexy goth chicks and dudes half in shadow every month.

Getting out a new edition of Masquerade is not difficult. Hell, I did it in one year. The key is getting some people onboard with whatever your big plans for the plot and game mechanics and then farming the writing out. But for fuck's sake, we aren't talking about a new property - there have been five previous editions of Vampire before we even count the multiple editions and revisions of Dark Ages and Rome - which of course also existed. At this point you don't need to come up with any new ideas, you just need to synthesize material, line fit it to whatever system you intend to use, and generate an advertising strategy.

But you know what? The stuff on the schedule for maybe getting printed next year was finished and done with and available as a PDF in 2009. The actual core writing staff, if they have one, has been working on unrevealed World of Darkness projects for at least 2 years. The MMO is scheduled to launch in 2012, do you honestly think that Ryan Dancey can't light a fire under their ass to get something to the table with two more years to go?

Fuck, it's not like they need to really think super hard about what their teaser art needs to be once their countdown starts, just have someone draw something like this:


But you know, with a rose and some blood. The fans will get excited.

-Username17

[TheFlatline]

But you know what? The stuff on the schedule for maybe getting printed next year was finished and done with and available as a PDF in 2009. The actual core writing staff, if they have one, has been working on unrevealed World of Darkness projects for at least 2 years. The MMO is scheduled to launch in 2012, do you honestly think that Ryan Dancey can't light a fire under their ass to get something to the table with two more years to go?

I hadn't realized they had been working for 2 years.

It's funny though. There's only 2 things about nWOD that really soured me and were dealbreakers. The first is that each city was an island unto itself and travel between cities was super-rare (which naturally explains how vampires spread across the planet, right? *boggle*). I don't mind travel being less likely than in Masquerade, but this idea that you'll only ever interact with the same 10 vampires... forever... sucks.

The second concept that I hated was this anti-plot approach. I didn't use 90% of the metaplot in all the splat books, but that 10% that I did use was the launching ground for a *lot* of stories. Getting rid of that essentially meant they were releasing an RPG without conflict in it, aside from what you could gin up on your own.

I'd have let Masquerade gracefully fade away if it wasn't for those two big points.

Now, the new Werewolf, that's an entirely different pile of tripe.

[theye1]

You're all assuming that Dust 514 eventual failure isn't going to Bankrupt CCP.

It's a First-Person shooter on a console, with a connection to only a moderately successful MMO, with Micro-transactions. Allegedly, the design and creation of Dust 514 is going to cost hundreds of millions of dollars in Design and implementation. It's a failure waiting to happen.

[Don Strudel]

The whole "MMOG is oWoD" is patently false. The developers stated they are combining elements of both games. Pretty much the only oWoD elements they're using are the metaplot. The whole "oWoD is coming back" thing is just a gross misunderstanding.

I hope I don't have to explain why the oWoD setting is not suitable for an MMOG. What with the outdated 90's themes (virtual reality is the future! technology is evil! capitalism and civilization is evil! rebellion is good!), rampant racism (Africa/Asia is another planet! Werewolves organize themselves by racist stereotypes! Mages organize themselves by high school clique! The Irish are all secret wiccans!), repulsiveness (Werewolves engage in dogrape), hypocrisy (despite venerating the Wyld/Dynamism, Mages and Werewolves have used the same static, unchanging hierarchies for thousands of years), contradictory cosmology (Consensus reality! The Bible is 100% true! Animistic reflections!), and unbalanced splats (Werewolves pwn vampires! Mages pwn everybody!). Oh wait, I just did.

Even if the MMOG was solely based on oWoD despite those problems, oWoD fans would hate it because it would have to severely rewrite the setting in order to even work as an MMOG. Fixing the cosmology, balancing the splats against each other in combat, toning down the dogrape and Orientalism and Luddite Wicca, limiting everyone to many different separate servers each a generic city City of Heroes style with generic mobs roaming the streets a la The Matrix Online, or creating numerous servers with each having a fake continent filled with "cities" that average one acre in size sandwiched between forests full of generic fantasy mobs, etc. It would be a complete nightmare for the developers. I can't even imagine that it's possible to have any kind of politics in an MMOG; it's most likely to be just a generic fantasy MMOG with mobs and crafting and medieval swords but all wrapped in a pretentious goth/furry/wiccan skin.

Besides, White Wolf is not declining because they switched to nWoD. They are declining because the RPG market base as a whole has been shrinking for ten years. Every publisher is straining, not just White Wolf.

[TheFlatline]

Oh bullshit. White Wolf doesn't even make the top 5, and probably not even the top 10 in the RPG industry sales numbers. It used to be a big player, but the last six years have been unkind.

I love how they're going to take the metaplot from oWOD but nothing else. How, pray, do you use Masquerade's metaplot without the cam, sabbat, clans, and other setting shit? The metaplot and the setting are kind of intertwined.

I know of *nobody* in two counties who is running a nwod LARP or table game. However, I know of 3 oWOD LARPs that each are running 20-30 players, and about a dozen table games, mostly Masquerade. Granted, I don't have omniscient knowledge, but when none of the gaming shops even *carry* more than two or three WW books that are in print any more (and during oWOD probably a quarter of each of the stores' RPG offerings were dedicated to WW), you have struggling product lines. Hell, my FLGS has more out of print oWOD books for sale than it does nWOD books. That's a bad sign.

To reiterate: Requiem is a game that was released without inherent setting conflict, which is a good part of why it tanked. They said "make it up yourself" and they hinted at two factions that required splat books to even have any concept of what they were, both of which were hardcovers released at the time for around 30 bucks a pop. While it had some good ideas (clans & covenants were a cool concept I thought), it was intentionally designed and stated to be as hostile to setting conflict as possible. The gamble didn't work.

Werewolf the Forsaken? Okay so you're hunted by the purebreds and you clean up rogue spirits. The scope was toned down but they nerfed the werewolves anyway and sort of became boring. While I've seen attempted Requiem games that lasted for some time, I've never seen an attempt at WTF (appropriate acronym).

Mage I heard was the best of the three but I was burned out on WW by the time it came out. I won't comment on it.

Changeling is confusing and hard to understand why I want to care or play the game. Promethean is literally a game that is unplayable if you adhere to the flavor and intent of the themes.

Sensing a pattern here? White Wolf is writing games that *don't* want to be played.

Nobody doubts that the next WOD edition is going to be a hybrid, but the point is, for years White Wolf loudly, vocally decried how *bad* everything about oWOD was, and how nWOD was so much better in every single way. Now they're going back on that. Masquerade et al are coming in through the back door and while it won't be a straight reprint, I wouldn't be surprised to see more and more playing with what was supposed to be over, dead, and done with.

[MfA]

I can't even imagine that it's possible to have any kind of politics in an MMOG

They managed with Eve.

it's most likely to be just a generic fantasy MMOG with mobs and crafting and medieval swords but all wrapped in a pretentious goth/furry/wiccan skin.

I'm hoping for some type of player made faction game in the sense of Eve. I'd set it in a post-masquerade world ... so you can have open warfare. Although the WoD fans probably wouldn't be able to stomach that.

Shadowrun would have been a better world for a MMO.

[FatR]

I hope I don't have to explain why the oWoD setting is not suitable for an MMOG.

Somehow it was suitable for a pair of CRPGs, one of which was pretty good. So, fuck your drivel.

Besides, White Wolf is not declining because they switched to nWoD. They are declining because the RPG market base as a whole has been shrinking for ten years. Every publisher is straining, not just White Wolf.

This is self-excusing bullshit that people associated with WW like to tell themselves and their few remaining fans to explain why Dark Heresy and offshoots now outsell their stuff, even though their mechanics mostly suck balls too and they started pretty much from zero in the period of supposed RPG decline. Without even bothering to check their dates, mind you.

[Don Strudel]

Oh bullshit. White Wolf doesn't even make the top 5, and probably not even the top 10 in the RPG industry sales numbers. It used to be a big player, but the last six years have been unkind.

If that is true, then why have they recently reprinted the corebooks, and why are Requiem and Awakening Platinum sellers and Forsaken and Lost and Vigil Gold sellers on DriveThruRPG/RPGNow? There's every indication they are making a good profit. They're contracting POD to make more money, because it turns out that nWoD and oWoD both sell equally well, so they might as well double dip into both the action-movie fans and the introspection fans. http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/metal.php

If they brought back the oWoD, what would they do with it? Continue the metaplot? Turn Time of Judgment into a joke where its "always around the corner" forever? Write books about each individual camp? Expand the alternate setting plot hooks from the Revised ST books into new lines? Releasing the rest of the revised Convention books, the canceled Dark Ages books, and the three Dreaming "lost books" is about the only productive thing they could do at that point.

I love how they're going to take the metaplot from oWOD but nothing else. How, pray, do you use Masquerade's metaplot without the cam, sabbat, clans, and other setting shit? The metaplot and the setting are kind of intertwined.

Beats me. Maybe they're making a new metaplot to fit a new iteration of the World of Darkness. Everything is up in the air as far as we know. They don't have a website or anything.

Hell, my FLGS has more out of print oWOD books for sale than it does nWOD books. That's a bad sign.

Does the fact that they (the oWoD books) have been sitting on the shelf for several years on end say anything?

Changeling is confusing and hard to understand why I want to care or play the game.

First time I've heard someone say that. Everyone I hear says Lost is better than Dreaming, even the oWoD fans.

Nobody doubts that the next WOD edition is going to be a hybrid, but the point is, for years White Wolf loudly, vocally decried how *bad* everything about oWOD was, and how nWOD was so much better in every single way.

Could it be because strawman had a point? The oWoD treated Asia like another planet, had its heroes engage in dogrape, and was full of hypocrisy (technology, which has improved our lives and given us unprecented freedom, is evil! Capitalism, which allows White Wolf to sell books, is evil! Mage and Werewolves venerate the Wyld/Dynamism, but have used the same static, unchanging hierarchies for thousands of years!). I got the impression the writers were Luddite Wiccan teenagers who had no idea how the world really worked. There was also things like the Black Furies worshiping Kennedy as the consort of their Mother Goddess and building a monument to him in Australia (wtf?!) or a fairytale witch ruling Russia with an iron fist (the Russian I listened to found this quite funny). White Wolf was famous for completely botching their research of foreign cultures, countries, and folklores; the WoD resembled the world as ignorant idiot Georgians thought it worked, except grimdark! Seriously, you can write entire books filled with everything that was wrong about the oWoD.

Now they're going back on that. Masquerade et al are coming in through the back door and while it won't be a straight reprint, I wouldn't be surprised to see more and more playing with what was supposed to be over, dead, and done with.

You mean with a Translation Guide that this forum decries as being pointless and shoddy? That doesn't really strike me as anything akin to an effort to bring back the oWoD. Ridicule, perhaps.

I'm hoping for some type of player made faction game in the sense of Eve. I'd set it in a post-masquerade world ... so you can have open warfare. Although the WoD fans probably wouldn't be able to stomach that.

Actually, many WoD fans are action-movie fans who couldn't care less about the introspection value or political exploration of the games. They just want to play D&D Modern with vampire ninjas.

Somehow it was suitable for a pair of CRPGs, one of which was pretty good. So, fuck your drivel.

That has more to do with Troika's writing ability than anything White Wolf did. Their team members designed games like Fallout, Fallout 2, Planescape: Torment, Arcanum, and Temple of Elemental Evil. PST and ToEE were licensed from D&D.

This is self-excusing bullshit that people associated with WW like to tell themselves and their few remaining fans to explain why Dark Heresy and offshoots now outsell their stuff, even though their mechanics mostly suck balls too and they started pretty much from zero in the period of supposed RPG decline.

http://gmskarka.com/2010/10/21/tabletopocalypse-now/ Are you saying that guy is a White Wolf PR agent too?

[K]

WoD has always been about teenage angst writ large.

The fact that it all falls apart when you get a college education and realize that the world is a little more complicated is not surprising. I mean, insular cliques, dabbling in various religions and sexualities, depression and disillusionment, and the like are all old hat when you get out of high school and learn a little about the world.

[Username17]

http://gmskarka.com/2010/10/21/tabletopocalypse-now/ Are you saying that guy is a White Wolf PR agent too?

I'm saying that things Skarka says don't matter.

But the long story short is that Masquerade is a stand alone game. The upcoming computer game is gong to be Masquerade. Whether Mage would make a good computer game or be able to bring in fans is wholly irrelevant. It's an oWoD Vampire game. Because Requiem sucks and no one likes it.

-Username17