Rowlingverse RPG

[Prak]

Ok, so I've off and on wanted to run in Rowling's world. What would be a good system? I know there are.... many problems with her world, but it could be fun, and while I hate to pull out fallacies, I can run a revised version of her world that fixes at least some of those problems, like how most of the movies completely ditch the whole "Wizards don't know how to dress normal! Herp derp!" shit.

Mutants and Masterminds would probably work decently, with my usual change of the equipment system (just putting fucking money in).

Step One-- Name the PCs Band
Step Two-- Write up a Six Member Band

• The Bravo Courageous, or maybe just foolhardy, to a fault. Gets people to follow him even when he doesn't want it. If he's disgraced, pluck and the help of his Band show people what really happened (or why it wasn't actually disgraceful). Really good at a few specific tricks/spell, but leading and motivating is his shtick. Leo
• The Lancelot(or pick an area appropriate equivalent) Just as brave/foolhardy as the Bravo, just doesn't realize it. May leave the bravo over a disagreement, but never actually betrays him. Inherently capable in a specific area, usually physical, though don't be too surprised if he turns out to be really good at something mental that's related to his interests, like a sporty guy understanding the game and strategy aspects of Wizard's Chess. Irving
• The Mind Smart. Expect them to have all the real knowledge, the trivia, and the most technical skill at magic. Arts, more talent related topics, may give them difficulty, so don't expect them to be seers, but they know more spells and how to execute them flawlessly than pretty much anyone else. A generalist and info dump, with high Magic stat and lots of points in knowledges, low Attack and Defense stats, and a lot of different utility spells. Ran
• The Body[/b] He was captain of the quidditch team in school, put away the most food at his table at dinner, and spent time not taken by classes and practice by running around and exercising. Alternatively, he's just stocky and resilient. Not necessarily dumb, or bad at magic, but the first thing you think when you look at him is "body." Typically the person you can count on when a challenge is more physical than mental or magical. Kratos
• The Sneak You know that guy who, when you're trying to figure out how to get something done, suggests the amoral solution that makes everyone just turn and stare? Yeah, that's this guy. He was probably a Slitherin back in school, and certainly knows a lot of underhanded tricks, like putting out the lights remotely, hiding their presence, where the secret passages are, or how to take out an obstructive friend non-fatally with a sneak attack. Morgan
• The Trickster Makes everyone laugh, until they turn one of their usually harmless but incapacitating jinxes on them. As they get older, they start developing hexes and jinxes capable of harm for when they're needed. Typically they're your boon companion, just don't piss them off. Stanchik

Step Three-- Write up a Three Member Band
Team 1: Leo leads and deals with social challenges, even if only as a distraction. Irving backs him up and lays a bit of smack down when needed. Ran researches and does the mental and magical heavy lifting.

Team 2:[/i] Morgan actually is a Slytherin, and a rich one at that, and so gets through doors by chuckling galleons at people, and makes social situations go away with name dropping, social intimidation, and promised or called in favours. Kratos runs circles around people and dangles them upside down when Morgan being nice doesn't cut it and Stanchik knows what bears are like and so can fool them, and has seen this kind of fire breathing chicken demon before.

Step Four-- Outline an Adventure A monstrous beast has gotten loose in the school. People have been turning up with burns, broken bones from fallen masonry, and mangled limbs. Against all reason, Leo and Irving rush out to combat the beasty, leaving Ran with no real choice but to follow the idiots. Or she got taken out by the thing in the library. But she knows what it looks like, and so is researching it now that she's conscious again. They find out it's a dragon, a young one, but still dangerous, and get it out into the forest where at least it can't hurt any other students. Leo happens to have some artifacts because people like him like that, and they're useful. Irving can run around the thing and back up Leo until Ran runs up and tells them it's weak against (whatever).
(yes, this is a shit adventure, I'm just trying to get *something* here)

[Kaelik]

Step one, don't. Her spells are dumb as fuck. There is literally one stat you care about, your ability to hit on ranged touch attacks, avoid ranged touch attacks, and go first. All traditionally Dex/Agility based stuff.

Literally nothing else matters. You have to ignore remove half her shitty fluff to have a game.

[Psychic Robot]

Step one, don't. Her spells are dumb as fuck. There is literally one stat you care about, your ability to hit on ranged touch attacks, avoid ranged touch attacks, and go first. All traditionally Dex/Agility based stuff.

Literally nothing else matters. You have to ignore remove half her shitty fluff to have a game.

Then you make up different stats to go with the game.

[Prak]

I've seriously been thinking Mutants and Masterminds for it (this time), which, yes, is similar to d20, but it's so modified that the comparison ends at about "roll d20". I'd hack it by reducing the cost of Attack and Defense and adding Magic (when you use a spell for attack or defense you use half the relevant stat and half your magic stat, and a giant dex or strength isn't going to help, really)

[Kaelik]

Step one, don't. Her spells are dumb as fuck. There is literally one stat you care about, your ability to hit on ranged touch attacks, avoid ranged touch attacks, and go first. All traditionally Dex/Agility based stuff.

Literally nothing else matters. You have to ignore remove half her shitty fluff to have a game.

Then you make up different stats to go with the game.

I think you missed the point.

The point is that there is no damage roll, there is no condition track, and there is no utility.

There is one thing, you go first, you cast Advra Kedavre, which automatically kills if it hits no matter fucking what, and then you are done.

Narrative tension in battles in Rowlings book comes entirely 100% from her describing how close the misses are, and by people stupidly using something besides Kedevra.

In an RPG you would basically just have rotating character syndrome, or you would have to have the enemies land less than 5% of their spells while the PCs go around murdering people left and right. In either case, you have a shitty game.

The problem with Rowling universe as an RPG is precisely the problem that no matter how incredibly fiersome the enemy, no matter how complex the problem, no matter how tough the competition, the resolution mechanic is always "cast one single spell."

Magic so arbitrary and powerful that any problem can be solved by casting one spell that instantly solves the problem.

[Krakatoa]

Kaelik would be right if he weren't ignoring some salient points. Avada Kedavra is not an easy spell to cast; it requires hatred to fuel it. It's also illegal to use on humans outside of life threatening situations. Same goes for Crucio and Imperio.

I think a better way to handle it, if you insist, would be to bring it into a more Rules Light system like FATE. Set your base attributes as plus or minus bonuses on a grid of emotional dispositions: Love, Hatred, Joy, Despair, Hope, Fear, Faith, Doubt.

Set your skills as the various Hogwarts Subjects: Charms, Potions, Transfigurations, DADA, etc.

Thus your 'to hit' or 'to succede' for magic becomes: Skill + (Disposition) + Dice Roll

This will be either vs a set DC for uncontested rolls, or an enemy's defense when fighting.

So, if you want to cast Avada Kedavra, you have to have a character who is both good at the Curses skill and has a positive value for hatred. On the other hand, if you want to cast Expecto Patronum, you'd need a character with a positive Joy attribute and a good Charms skill.

[Kaelik]

Abra Kadbra doesn't need hate to fuel it any more than Patronus needs love, but Voldemort can cast that and Dumbledore can cast Kadabra.

There aren't any people who can't cast spells because they don't have the right emotions, and there is absolutely no evidence anywhere of a spell going off at all and failing to have it's effect.

[Krakatoa]

Did you even read the books? Mental states being key to getting spells right one of the core conciets of Rowling's world.

Also even if I didn't have canon backing me up 100% (I do), if I was just assuming, that's sort of irrelevant because an RPG doesn't have to simulate the source material with complete accuracy.

[Krakatoa]

It also occurs to me that FATE would be good because of Aspects, which could be invoked or compelled to push characters into emotional states outside their norms, thus perhaps allowing a decent chap to cast Avada Kedavra or a miserable person to cast a Patronus in a pinch.

[Red_Rob]

The argument "You can only use the spell that kills someone if you hate them, so its balanced" seems tenuous.

Killing people you don't hate makes you a psychopath or an assassin, not archetypes I expect in a Harry Potter game. You still end up with Super-Rocket-Launcher-Tag 1 hit death fights, which is swingy and unfun for players.

It only works in D&D because death is mainly a temporary affair.

[Koumei]

Kaelik: when whatsername killed Sirius, Harry tried to hit her with the Crucio curse and it just hurt a little bit. She told him, gleefully, that he would have to actually hate her and want to cause her pain, not just be angry.

And he tried a few things on Snape after

SNAPE KILLED DUMBLEDORE

with no effect - because apparently counterspelling is so stupidly easy for some that you can actually be Immune to Spells. That has nothing to do with mood, just pointing out there IS a way to stop a spell from going off, and that's by being an awesome counterspeller. Which possibly involves being flat-out higher level.

However you can apparently Imperius people (Dominate Person as per D&D) just for shits and giggles.

Something I feel is stupid is this:
Abra Kadabra Avada Kedavra is forbidden and EEEEVILLLL because it's the KILLING CURSE and people die when they are killed.

Yet people take it in stride that, according to the reports, Sirius killed a whole bunch of people with the one explosive curse! (When he "killed" the rat guy.)

And there's the spell that Snape made up as a kid that slices people up real good.

Apparently it's really easy to make a spell that kills people - even multiple people at once (and they're so simple that all you need is the BadLatinus trigger word to teach someone else), so why is AVADA KEDAVRA so special?

(This also makes people wonder what spells people are throwing about in, for instance, the battle where Sirius dies. All these spells thrown about from either side, then suddenly one AK to kill him (because the Death Eaters most loyal to Evil McSatanPants needed to work up to something that bad and couldn't just whip it out to start with?), so was the whole thing up until then an Expeliarmus playfight?)

Sadly, it seems the best "system" for Harry Potter is fanfic/Magical Tea Party. Now, go check out a HP fanfic or skim some of the forum-based freeform HP games, and you'll know why I said "sadly". You may need a few strong drinks afterwards.

[Manxome]

I seem to recall Snape doing something like counter-spelling to Harry at the end of book 6, and spells bouncing off of giants and dragons at various points. There's explicitly a shield spell. I also believe it was implied that combat between experienced adult wizards was considerably subtler than what the kids had mastered; I seem to recall a scene at the ministry in book 5 when the order of the phoenix shows up where the combat was described rather differently from what we saw dumbledore's army doing.

Regardless, I don't think it's that different from the problem of guns in any modern RPG. Presumably the game is less combat-centric than D&D, and combat (when it happens) involves trying to get a lot of situational modifiers to boost your odds of hitting and lower your odds of getting hit. Quests might involve solving mysteries, fighting contrived merit-based security systems, or dismantling the villain's esoteric defenses (e.g. hoarcruxes) prior to a confrontation.

There are quite a few spells in the books that would take someone out of combat instantly whether you killed them or not, though, so I don't think anything is solved by placing special restrictions on the unforgivable curses.

[Darth Rabbitt]

Kaelik: when whatsername killed Sirius, Harry tried to hit her with the Crucio curse and it just hurt a little bit. She told him, gleefully, that he would have to actually hate her and want to cause her pain, not just be angry.

Yeah, but then he later uses it on some Death Eater who spits on McGonagall in the 7th book.

Somehow, someone spitting on one of your favorite teachers is going to want to make you hate someone and want to inflict pain on them more than someone killing your godfather.

Go figure.

[angelfromanotherpin]

There is a lot of stuff in the Potter setting that resonates with people, but there is a lot that is just shit. From minor issues (like Quidditch not making any goddamn sense), to noticeable but ultimately forgivable plot holes (what happened to time travel? what happened to success juice?), to major thematic problems to do with Calvinism (where the exact same actions are praised or condemned depending on whether the actor is one of the elect).

I suggest: murdering the setting, tearing from its steaming corpse what works, and either abandoning or replacing what doesn't. This will involve nailing down the exact problems and making some decisions about them that Rowling never did. e.g. are the Dark Arts a) Normal magic that is arbitrarily discriminated against because it is politically unpopular for some reason, or b) Magic that is actually and specifically distinct somehow. And so on.

[Kaelik]

Did you even read the books? Mental states being key to getting spells right one of the core conciets of Rowling's world.

Also even if I didn't have canon backing me up 100% (I do),

Asserting things does not make them so. Mental states are not the key to getting spells right. Getting spells right all the time 100% of the time is mastered by 3rd years. I don't care if Voldemort has to think about murdering dumbledore in order to be happy enough to summon a Patronus, if every single fourth year student can cast any spell they want whenever they want, there is no key to getting spells right.

No one ever fails to cast a spell once they've gotten over the initial hump of learning how to cast it.

an RPG doesn't have to simulate the source material with complete accuracy.

Since my explicit point is "The first thing you have to do to make a good game is set the source material on fire" the fact that not following the source material would make the game better isn't exactly an argument against my point.

Kaelik: when whatsername killed Sirius, Harry tried to hit her with the Crucio curse and it just hurt a little bit. She told him, gleefully, that he would have to actually hate her and want to cause her pain, not just be angry.

That was literally the first time he ever tried to cast the spell. See my above point, I don't care if Voldemort thinks about puppies sometimes to cast spells. If he has a 100% success rate of thinking about puppies in order to Patronus, then for all intents and purposes, it doesn't matter. Once a Wizard has cast the spell successfully 12 times in a row during practice that takes place in safe conditions, they have a 100% success rate with said spell.

with no effect - because apparently counterspelling is so stupidly easy for some that you can actually be Immune to Spells. That has nothing to do with mood, just pointing out there IS a way to stop a spell from going off, and that's by being an awesome counterspeller. Which possibly involves being flat-out higher level.

...

Something I feel is stupid is this:
Abra Kadabra Avada Kedavra is forbidden and EEEEVILLLL because it's the KILLING CURSE and people die when they are killed.

Yet people take it in stride that, according to the reports, Sirius killed a whole bunch of people with the one explosive curse! (When he "killed" the rat guy.)

And there's the spell that Snape made up as a kid that slices people up real good.

Apparently it's really easy to make a spell that kills people - even multiple people at once (and they're so simple that all you need is the BadLatinus trigger word to teach someone else), so why is AVADA KEDAVRA so special?

Both your questions have the same answer.

Yes it's relatively trivial for a more experienced mage to counterspell and laugh at you. Except of course, the actual reason Abra Kadabra is so special is because it is explicitly called out as unblockable and un counterspellable.

If you have a shield spell up and you try to counterspell a really shitty Wizard, and you are a really good Wizard like Snape or Dumbledore or Voldemort, you still die if the green ray is targeted at you, and doesn't hit the book shelf behind you.

[Surgo]

It always bothered me how transmogrification was such a big deal in the books, yet nobody when confronted with Adavra Kadavra would bother polymorphing up an iron block in front of them or something.

Oh well, chalk it up to just another plot hole.

[fectin]

So, there's some wierd mechanics going on in that universe, and we don't have a trustworthy narrator to start with. You could seriously make up whatever rules you felt like for making magic items and not be contradicting anything, and the same goes for anyspell with a duration other than (concentration). Yes, the time turner screws things up. So do the philosopher's stone, or the Eye of Vecna. The second two are things of which there are exactly one, and that solution works fine for the time turner as well.

On the gaming side, you should probably focus on building your system around either school-based shennanigans, xor around adventures in the broader world.

[Meikle641]

It always bothered me how transmogrification was such a big deal in the books, yet nobody when confronted with Adavra Kadavra would bother polymorphing up an iron block in front of them or something.

Oh well, chalk it up to just another plot hole.

It's been a while since I read Order of the Phoenix (and read a lot of fanfics since), so I may be wrong on this, but... Didn't Dumbledore move a hunk of gold statue to block an AK at the end of it? Seems like the AK penetrates spells and light materials, but probably solid metals do the trick. Not sure I even have that book anymore so I can't doublecheck...

[Prak]

Kaelik: when whatsername killed Sirius, Harry tried to hit her with the Crucio curse and it just hurt a little bit. She told him, gleefully, that he would have to actually hate her and want to cause her pain, not just be angry.

Yeah, but then he later uses it on some Death Eater who spits on McGonagall in the 7th book.

Somehow, someone spitting on one of your favorite teachers is going to want to make you hate someone and want to inflict pain on them more than someone killing your godfather.

Go figure.

Or two years and being on the run for six months or so of one of those and being and seeing your father figure defamed in the press is enough to turn you from miserable self loathing to hating the enemy enough you want them to die painfully.

There is a lot of stuff in the Potter setting that resonates with people, but there is a lot that is just shit. From minor issues (like Quidditch not making any goddamn sense), to noticeable but ultimately forgivable plot holes (what happened to time travel? what happened to success juice?), to major thematic problems to do with Calvinism (where the exact same actions are praised or condemned depending on whether the actor is one of the elect).

I suggest: murdering the setting, tearing from its steaming corpse what works, and either abandoning or replacing what doesn't. This will involve nailing down the exact problems and making some decisions about them that Rowling never did. e.g. are the Dark Arts a) Normal magic that is arbitrarily discriminated against because it is politically unpopular for some reason, or b) Magic that is actually and specifically distinct somehow. And so on.

Probably the best option, really.

So, there's some wierd mechanics going on in that universe, and we don't have a trustworthy narrator to start with. You could seriously make up whatever rules you felt like for making magic items and not be contradicting anything, and the same goes for anyspell with a duration other than (concentration). Yes, the time turner screws things up. So do the philosopher's stone, or the Eye of Vecna. The second two are things of which there are exactly one, and that solution works fine for the time turner as well.

On the gaming side, you should probably focus on building your system around either school-based shennanigans, xor around adventures in the broader world.

Well, there seem to be three main ways of making magic items: ritual (horcruxes), enchantment (basic utility stuff like walking luggage) and goblin craft (super durable items, like Godric's sword, which adapt as things try to destroy them).

The idea was to allow for either style of game. If people want to play students, it should be possible, if they want to play aurors, it should also be possible.

It's been a while since I read Order of the Phoenix (and read a lot of fanfics since), so I may be wrong on this, but... Didn't Dumbledore move a hunk of gold statue to block an AK at the end of it? Seems like the AK penetrates spells and light materials, but probably solid metals do the trick. Not sure I even have that book anymore so I can't doublecheck...

No, when Dumbledore was having Avada Kedrava cast at him, he didn't avoid it all, it was "his time to die." Hell, he may have planned on it as the next step of the plan.

[Maxus]

No, when Dumbledore was having Avada Kedrava cast at him, he didn't avoid it all, it was "his time to die." Hell, he may have planned on it as the next step of the plan.

He actually did. He was dying anyway, and it was as good a time as any. He'd even asked Snape to do it beforehand.

[Psychic Robot]

major thematic problems to do with Calvinism (where the exact same actions are praised or condemned depending on whether the actor is one of the elect).

Please go into more detail on this.

[fectin]

So, there's some wierd mechanics going on in that universe, and we don't have a trustworthy narrator to start with. You could seriously make up whatever rules you felt like for making magic items and not be contradicting anything, and the same goes for anyspell with a duration other than (concentration). Yes, the time turner screws things up. So do the philosopher's stone, or the Eye of Vecna. The second two are things of which there are exactly one, and that solution works fine for the time turner as well.

On the gaming side, you should probably focus on building your system around either school-based shennanigans, xor around adventures in the broader world.

Well, there seem to be three main ways of making magic items: ritual (horcruxes), enchantment (basic utility stuff like walking luggage) and goblin craft (super durable items, like Godric's sword, which adapt as things try to destroy them).

True, but it never (IIRC) happens onscreen. It could seriously be five minutes of effort for the goblin sword or five years of effort for the walking luggage, and there's no evidence that it's even a linear progression from one to the other. So for parts aside from the rocket launcher tag portion of the game, you could seriously declare anything you wanted.

The idea was to allow for either style of game. If people want to play students, it should be possible, if they want to play aurors, it should also be possible.

I get that. And I think whichever you write will scale to the other with minor adjustments. but writing specifically for one, then expanding to the other still seems a lot more sensible.

[Josh_Kablack]

You know, this system has already been written..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ars_Magica


Change "covenant" into like "dorm", tweak the latin into psuedo-latin, maybe add a couple schools for modern-world stuff like electricity, scale down the effects of dominion/true faith and you're pretty much there.

[Prak]

No, when Dumbledore was having Avada Kedrava cast at him, he didn't avoid it all, it was "his time to die." Hell, he may have planned on it as the next step of the plan.

He actually did. He was dying anyway, and it was as good a time as any. He'd even asked Snape to do it beforehand.

Right, yeah. I had forgotten about arranging with Snape, but I was fairly certain it was all part of his plan.

Please go into more detail on [Calvinism in Harry Potter].

Well, to start with, villains are casting crucio all the time and condemned for it, but McGonagal, while slightly unsettled, doesn't really take umbrage with Harry using it in her defense, merely saying something along the lines of "my honor is not worth going to Azkaban for". Mad Eye/Barty uses it in class to show the effects, but takes no flack for it. The power trio uses Polyjuice potion in Chamber of Secrets(?) and aren't disciplined as they should be. If it had been anyone but Harry's name to come out of the goblet fourth and underage, there'd have been an uproar and discipling. Stuff like that. The good guys get off with warnings, if anything, the bad guys get condemnation.

True, but it never (IIRC) happens onscreen. It could seriously be five minutes of effort for the goblin sword or five years of effort for the walking luggage, and there's no evidence that it's even a linear progression from one to the other. So for parts aside from the rocket launcher tag portion of the game, you could seriously declare anything you wanted.

Well, goblin craft is just that, a craft, which implies a certain length of time involved, but it could be anything from a weeks work to years. Goblin-craft items are exceedingly rare, but more because it's generally easier to convince a crocodile to give you it's kidneys than a goblin it's stuff (they also have a very different concept of ownership). The walking luggage could, ultimately, take but a moment, as it's mostly a simple charm, but figuring out the charm is the tricky part. Potions take different times for different potions (hence why you only see Felix Felicitus once, it takes several years to brew).

I get that. And I think whichever you write will scale to the other with minor adjustments. but writing specifically for one, then expanding to the other still seems a lot more sensible.

Given the source material, that's actually the natural way of doing it, I think. The books focus on school life so heavily, that it's easier to create that portion first, and then expand to after school.

Josh: I'm downloading an Ars Magica book now, I'll take a look.

[Meikle641]

No, when Dumbledore was having Avada Kedrava cast at him, he didn't avoid it all, it was "his time to die." Hell, he may have planned on it as the next step of the plan.

Wrong book. I'm talking about the battle in the Atrium in the Ministry of Magic at the end of Order of the Phoenix. You're thinking of Half-Blood Prince.