Fighter V Wizard

darkmaster · Post by **darkmaster** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:40 am

So, recently I was talking to a net acquaintance of mine, who I assume is a girl because she refuses to be wrong about anything. Anyway, we got to talking about D&D, I was thinking of joining a 3.5 game as the "meat shield" that was the actual job description. Well I had asked if I could use the Tome material specifically the fighter, because, well, we've all seen the SRD fighter. Which was struck down because the DM thought homebrew "isn't real" which I don't get but whatever.

Well inevitably the conversation turned to why I wanted to play a tome fighter, again, we've all seen the SRD version. In the face of my assertions that the standard fighter is underpowered she claimed that the fighter was, in fact, more powerful than any other class, but you had to play them the quote unquote right way.

What ensued was an argument about why a competent wizard is better than well any fighter in a fight. It went something like this.

Me: A wizard can use overland flight and fireball to do more damage than a fighter without ever going into melee range, or even within bowshot.

Her: Well the fighter could run into a forest where the wizard can't maneuver.

Me: Fireball are made of fire.

Her: He could run into a cave.

Me: Fireball is an AoE.

Her: He'd duck behind something.

Me: Fine stone to mud and mud to stone are well within the ability of a wizard with overland flight.

Her: The wizard would have to come into melee range.

Me: Not really a flying wizard can move faster than a fighter. (This is a human fighter btw no fancy racial traits)

Her: Dark cave the wizard can't see to move.

Me: Darkvision is like a third level spell, and darkness is worse for a fighter than it is for a wizard.

After which the argument simply fell apart. So I suppose the moral is to not argue with delusional people, but I still have this nagging feeling. Am I missing something here, am I not giving the SRD fighter enough credit?

K · Post by K » Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:50 am

No, that's pretty spot on.

For the record, you don't need darkvision. Light is a 0th level spell, and simply bouncing fireballs into the darkness is actually more effective.

Fighter's don't really win scenarios unless they get to start next to poorly designed wizards. Even simple uses like "I invis, walk to range, cast a damaging spell, then invis as you charge me and fall short" don't play out well for fighters.

CapnTthePirateG · Post by **CapnTthePirateG** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:55 am

We talking core or in splatbooks?

Because in splatbooks there are literally spells such as "become immune to weapons" and spell combos which cause any weapon striking you to explode.

I get into this argument a lot with this idiot grognard I know, and his argument always comes down to "but the fighter has allies". In other words, it can't contribute anything useful and needs to whine at casters.

darkmaster · Post by **darkmaster** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:02 am

Well I was talking about core, but you make a good point splat books certainly only made the fighter's lot in life worse.

That spell combo sounds interesting, mind telling me the spells?

MGuy · Post by **MGuy** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:06 am

And once again the dead horse is resurrected to be beaten to death once again.

darkmaster · Post by **darkmaster** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:16 am

Isn't that redundant?

MGuy · Post by **MGuy** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:17 am

That would be the joke.

darkmaster · Post by **darkmaster** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:19 am

How dare you joke about Grammar?!

Josh_Kablack · Post by **Josh_Kablack** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:37 am

but I still have this nagging feeling. Am I missing something here, am I not giving the SRD fighter enough credit?

You're an idiot. You want to join a game run by an idiot, you want to bring in overpowered material from those crackheads on the net and you start by arguing with the MC. Real smooth genius. If the MC thinks fighters are overpowered, the correct response is "I disagree so hard that I'll refuse to play one - what else is available in your game?" and to then pick a core Cleric, Druid or Spec Wiz if Beguilers and fancy unplaytested custom PrCs aren't available.

But to answer the question you asked, core "fighters" are at least viable and don't really go obsolete until somewhere in the 6-9 level range where casters stop running out of spell slots and monster full attacks start one-round-killing everyone regardless of HD type. But by "fighter" I mean a character who multiclasses as many front-loaded full BAB classes as possible - Ftr2/BBN1/Ranger 2/ who hopes that Warblade or Marshall or something else is available allow entry to a PrC before having to take Rgr 3 or BBN 2

darkmaster · Post by **darkmaster** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:42 am

Okay... I never actually argued with the DM, but okay.

A Man In Black · Post by **A Man In Black** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:00 am

This thread is so bad I think it just gave me cancer. What the fuck

1. "darkmaster."
2. "Fighter V Wizard"
3. "net acquaintance of mine, who I assume is a girl because she refuses to be wrong about anything"
4. Fireball is mentioned at all.
5. The thread is about PVP combat.
6. The thread is about some abstract non-context where people just make up details as they go along.

So basically the solution to the problem you have with your D&D game is to disassemble your computer, arrange the pieces in alphabetical order, then cast them off of the nearest bridge or traffic span.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:05 am

A Man In Black wrote:So basically the solution to the problem you have with your D&D game is to disassemble your computer, arrange the pieces in alphabetical order, then cast them off of the nearest bridge or traffic span.

Follow them.

darkmaster · Post by **darkmaster** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:58 am

Well, it's good to see the board's piss and bile isn't gone I'd begun to wonder if the D&D morality thread had taken it all up.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:22 am

darkmaster wrote:Well, it's good to see the board's piss and bile isn't gone I'd begun to wonder if the D&D morality thread had taken it all up.

You posted Fighter vs Wizard. You fucking deserved it.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:04 am

"net acquaintance of mine, who I assume is a girl because she refuses to be wrong about anything"
By this logic, this board is nothing but women, and in fact the legendary rules of the internet should read "There are no boys on the internet."

Also, welcome back, darkmaster, whatever banned troll you may be.... (plebian again is my bet, but elennsar wouldn't surprise me)

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:54 am

Kaelik, we've disagreed on many a thing in the past, but in this thread I fully endorse your comments.

And yeah, my bet is plebian.

Oh awesome, this makes 49 on the ignore list. NEARLY AT FIFTY!

talozin · Post by **talozin** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:36 am

Prak_Anima wrote:"net acquaintance of mine, who I assume is a girl because she refuses to be wrong about anything"
By this logic, this board is nothing but women, and in fact the legendary rules of the internet should read "There are no boys on the internet."

So fucking much this. There's a reason it's called "Male Answer Syndrome".

sabs · Post by **sabs** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:48 pm

talozin wrote:
Prak_Anima wrote:"net acquaintance of mine, who I assume is a girl because she refuses to be wrong about anything"
By this logic, this board is nothing but women, and in fact the legendary rules of the internet should read "There are no boys on the internet."
So fucking much this. There's a reason it's called "Male Answer Syndrome".

She was also a lesbian, and ugly, and he didn't really want her anyways.

Korwin · Post by **Korwin** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:43 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFuMpYTyRjw

Kobajagrande · Post by **Kobajagrande** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:51 pm

Prak_Anima wrote:"net acquaintance of mine, who I assume is a girl because she refuses to be wrong about anything"
By this logic, this board is nothing but women, and in fact the legendary rules of the internet should read "There are no boys on the internet."

I always did feel you all were a bunch of pussies...

Quantumboost · Post by **Quantumboost** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:05 pm

Prak_Anima wrote:Also, welcome back, darkmaster, whatever banned troll you may be.... (plebian again is my bet, but elennsar wouldn't surprise me)

Far as I can tell from post history, darkmaster is just some internet person who is also a noob at this stuff. Not likely to be some specific other person's trolling account.

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:31 pm

Prak_Anima wrote:"net acquaintance of mine, who I assume is a girl because she refuses to be wrong about anything"
By this logic, this board is nothing but women, and in fact the legendary rules of the internet should read "There are no boys on the internet."

Also, welcome back, darkmaster, whatever banned troll you may be.... (plebian again is my bet, but elennsar wouldn't surprise me)

Actually, darkmaster's been around here a while, y'all.

He seems to be new at D&D and junk, but there's not too much shame in that, is there?

Count Arioch the 28th · Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:41 pm

sabs wrote:
talozin wrote:
Prak_Anima wrote:"net acquaintance of mine, who I assume is a girl because she refuses to be wrong about anything"
By this logic, this board is nothing but women, and in fact the legendary rules of the internet should read "There are no boys on the internet."
So fucking much this. There's a reason it's called "Male Answer Syndrome".
She was also a lesbian, and ugly, and he didn't really want her anyways.

I don't get the lesbian hate from men. If you are mature enough to accept that you just weren't born equipped to attract them, most lesbians are actually cool people. Yeah, there are some that aren't, but that goes with any demographic really. My ex was friends with a lesbian couple, and the four of us would play Mario Kart and Smash Brothers. Good times!

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:55 pm

Count Arioch the 28th wrote:I don't get the lesbian hate from men. If you are mature enough to accept that you just weren't born equipped to attract them, most lesbians are actually cool people. Yeah, there are some that aren't, but that goes with any demographic really. My ex was friends with a lesbian couple, and the four of us would play Mario Kart and Smash Brothers. Good times!

But women are only good for sex. If they don't want to have sex with me, they are totally useless.

Count Arioch the 28th · Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:07 pm

Kaelik wrote:
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:I don't get the lesbian hate from men. If you are mature enough to accept that you just weren't born equipped to attract them, most lesbians are actually cool people. Yeah, there are some that aren't, but that goes with any demographic really. My ex was friends with a lesbian couple, and the four of us would play Mario Kart and Smash Brothers. Good times!
But women are only good for sex. If they don't want to have sex with me, they are totally useless.

What's the matter, don't you like sandwiches?