how much WBL is combat oriented?

[shadzar]

so 3rd has the funny little thing of wealth by level, but how much of that assumed wealth does it say should be used on combat related items?

specifically items that add to attack bonuses, damage bonuses, and AC.

[darkmaster]

Armor, weapons, shield, strength increasing potion, dex increasing potion, con increasing potion, int increasing potion, any item that increases a base stat you use to attack, any item that makes you invisible or something, any item that makes your mind harder to locate/effect, any item that increases a save, any item that restores HP.

So almost every item that has any impact on the game.

[shadzar]

how much, not what kinds. how much denotes a quantity or amount...these are expressed in numbers.

examples for the illiterate:

how much is that doggy in the window?
how much can a bag of holding hold?


your subjective and wrong view of magic items is not welcome in this thread.

[...You Lost Me]

Shadzar, your poor attempt at trying to divert your failures to another thread is not going to help you. Everyone who disagrees with you there will disagree with you here, and you'll get called an idiot in one more thread than you're being called an idiot in now. But let me help you a bit:

Approximately 900 gp should be spent on combat items at level 2. 2700gp at level 3. 5400gp at level 4. 9000gp, level 5. 13000gp, level 6. 19000gp, level 7, etc.

[Seerow]

The question you ask doesn't actually have an answer defined anywhere. It is assumed the answer is pretty damn close to 100% because there are precious few items that have no combat application at all, and even fewer that have any meaningful cost.


That said, I have played with people who spent half their share of the treasure to go get a lute with at will prestidigitation (yes it was a low level campaign) just to be able to impress commoners when he played at bars. This is the exception, not the norm.

[shadzar]

Approximately 900 gp should be spent on combat items at level 2. 2700gp at level 3. 5400gp at level 4. 9000gp, level 5. 13000gp, level 6. 19000gp, level 7, etc.

what % of WBL are those?

[fbmf]

how much, not what kinds. how much denotes a quantity or amount...these are expressed in numbers.

How much do you love 2E, shadzar?

Game On,
fbmf

[darkmaster]

It's not wrong, Armor, weapons, shields, potions, and every thing else I listed is magic, it's not what kinds, I was giving you an idea about the sheer volume of work that would be involved in going through and counting every single different kind of item that contributes to combat, and then figuring out which ones are magic (pro tip: it's almost 100%) then take what each costs item costs and figure out the percent. So what you're asking is just not worth the bother, it's easier to say "almost every item you will use in battle is magical" with is true, than say "this % of your money will go to magic items".

[shadzar]

The question you ask doesn't actually have an answer defined anywhere. It is assumed the answer is pretty damn close to 100% because there are precious few items that have no combat application at all, and even fewer that have any meaningful cost.

all assumptions aside, there MUST be an answer defined somewhere, otherwise WBL and CR cannot in fact interact.

what is the WBL of a level 1 character?
what is the power ratings of a CR 1 monster?
how much of the WBL of the level 1 character should contribute to combat power to make a combat with that CR 1 monster have a 50/50 chance?

this is where it is defined, in and throughout the game. with so many people complaining about parts of the game, nobody has figured up, in 11 years, how much of the WBL towards combat items, will in effect show that the CR ratings are a true balance?

i have seen people claim that CR isnt right, but where is the proof? where are some numbers? there must have been an interaction with WBL in order for this to be justified that a CR level isnt correct.

am i misunderstanding that CR gives a rating to what a monster is compared to a single opponent of the same level, and when two monsters fight it would in turn be CR v ECL as it that monster were fighting as a PC and its PC level is the monsters ECL?

or in 11 years, all the math has been founded on 100% of WBL is devoted to magic items for combat usage of Atk/Dmg/AC?

someone had to compare varying degrees of the WBL as combat gear, to a monster and its CR, right?

[Seerow]

If you want numbers, go run them yourself. As much as you hate 3rd edition I'm sure you'd be happy to spend hours comparing the numbers and how they line up across the CR scale.

Or you could trust the 11 years of experience of millions of players, in which pretty much everybody expects that all of your wealth by level is combat gear, because that's basically all of what the magic items we're actually given to work with are.

[Leress]

what is the WBL of a level 1 character?

Depends on the class, it says it starting gold in the class descriptions. You would know that if you read the PHB.

what is the power ratings of a CR 1 monster?

It is an good challenge for a group of four 1st-level characters. You would know that if you read the DMG.

how much of the WBL of the level 1 character should contribute to combat power to make a combat with that CR 1 monster have a 50/50 chance?

Since it is first level, which is very swingy as well as 2nd, the main part of their combat power will be their abilities not gear. They will only have generally the barest of armor or weapons. So it will come down to feats and class abilities.

[shadzar]

Or you could trust the 11 years of experience of millions of players, in which pretty much everybody expects that all of your wealth by level is combat gear, because that's basically all of what the magic items we're actually given to work with are.

and yet i haven't ever seen it as such except for total newbs and munchkins. hell even a total newb stood up once to say that it was stupid to put all your eggs into one basket becase "the game isnt only about combat".

1st time D&D player with a 3.5 PHB...that was a priceless moment.

[shadzar]

Since it is first level, which is very swingy as well as 2nd, the main part of their combat power will be their abilities not gear. They will only have generally the barest of armor or weapons. So it will come down to feats and class abilities.

so WBL really doesnt have ANYTHING to do with CR then and actually power level assumed of characters?

so magic items then do NOT figure into the characters power or the CR rating of monsters?

[darkmaster]

2 900
3 2700
4 5400
5 9000
6 13000
7 19000
8 27000
9 36000
10 49000
11 66000
12 88000
13 110000
14 150000
15 200000
16 260000
17 340000
18 440000
19 580000
20 760000

There, that's the wealth by level table. Over the course of those levels you should get that much gold, all of which is expected to go into character power, at level three you should start spending it on magic items, especially weapons and armor.

[shadzar]

There, that's the wealth by level table. Over the course of those levels you should get that much gold, all of which is expected to go into character power, at level three you should start spending it on magic items, especially weapons and armor.

i know for a fact that "gold" is not what you should get but WBL is GP value.

i need a citation of the book, where it states the bolded portion.

it is called Wealth by level, not Power by level...so nothing i can see has ever stated it should be only used for combat gear.

i assume level 3 is the first place where you could AFFORD magic items.

[Leress]

Since it is first level, which is very swingy as well as 2nd, the main part of their combat power will be their abilities not gear. They will only have generally the barest of armor or weapons. So it will come down to feats and class abilities.

so WBL really doesnt have ANYTHING to do with CR then and actually power level assumed of characters?

so magic items then do NOT figure into the characters power or the CR rating of monsters?

Since you were asking about level one the answer would be no, but at higher levels the bulk of your Wealth will be in magical items. As per page 199 in the DMG under Creating PC above 1st level section 5.

[shadzar]

character creation isnt in the SRD....

you will have to quote the book that "the bulk of your Wealth will be in magical items."

and then tell me how much of that will be in combat items?

[Seerow]

character creation isnt in the SRD....

you will have to quote the book that "the bulk of your Wealth will be in magical items."

and then tell me how much of that will be in combat items?

You have access to all the magic items. You tell me how many you see that aren't combat related.

[Leress]

Really, really, really.

Here is the quote:

5. Equip the character. When creating a 1st-level character, this means buying normal equipment. At higher levels, it also means deciding which magic items a character has acquired so far. Refer to Chapter 7: Magic Items, where all magic items are listed along with their market prices. Table 5-1: Character Wealth by Level (page 135) shows the total value of a player character's gear at a given level. This value includes mundane items described in Chapter 7 of the PHB, but the bulk of it, especially at higher levels is composed of magic items. See Magic Items as Gear, below, for advice on how to govern what sort of magic items a PC can buy with this wealth. Note that these values apply only to player characters. NPC use table 4-23: NPC Gear Value (page 127) to find the total value of their equipment.

It doesn't give an exact number, since that can be adjusted by the DM. As it says in the next section on the same page.

[shadzar]

character creation isnt in the SRD....

you will have to quote the book that "the bulk of your Wealth will be in magical items."

and then tell me how much of that will be in combat items?

You have access to all the magic items. You tell me how many you see that aren't combat related.

the majority of them. bags of holding, amulet of crabs, amulet of health, all items that give ability score boosts, perform mundane tasks, affect movement, confer flight,....

[shadzar]

Really, really, really.

Here is the quote:

5. Equip the character. When creating a 1st-level character, this means buying normal equipment. At higher levels, it also means deciding which magic items a character has acquired so far. Refer to Chapter 7: Magic Items, where all magic items are listed along with their market prices. Table 5-1: Character Wealth by Level (page 135) shows the total value of a player character's gear at a given level. This value includes mundane items described in Chapter 7 of the PHB, but the bulk of it, especially at higher levels is composed of magic items. See Magic Items as Gear, below, for advice on how to govern what sort of magic items a PC can buy with this wealth. Note that these values apply only to player characters. NPC use table 4-23: NPC Gear Value (page 127) to find the total value of their equipment.

It doesn't give an exact number, since that can be adjusted by the DM. As it says in the next section on the same page.

i still dont see where it says the bulk will be magic WEAPONS.

granted a bulk of things you keep is going to be in non coin form, and then it would be magic items. but it still doesnt say what some claim that ALL those magic items are ONLY weapons and armor, and other combat items.

this is the PHB?

[darkmaster]

Score boosts are combat stuff, so of those three only one is actually out of combat. Even bags of holding are used to carry the things you use in combat or use to buy the things you use in combat, so those don't even get a pass for noncombat, as their use still revolves around killing things.

[Leress]

i still dont see where it says the bulk will be magic WEAPONS.


granted a bulk of things you keep is going to be in non coin form, and then it would be magic items. but it still doesnt say what some claim that ALL those magic items are ONLY weapons and armor, and other combat items.

Hold the fuck up, you ask me specifically:

character creation isnt in the SRD....

you will have to quote the book that "the bulk of your Wealth will be in magical items."

and then tell me how much of that will be in combat items?

That is what you asked me, I gave you the page, book, section number, and then I quoted it. Don't go changing it to magic weapons. I also said that the next section below it gives guidelines for the DM on how to try to keep balance for it.

this is the PHB?

It's in the DMG.

[shadzar]

Score boosts are combat stuff, so of those three only one is actually out of combat. Even bags of holding are used to carry the things you use in combat or use to buy the things you use in combat, so those don't even get a pass for noncombat, as their use still revolves around killing things.

charisma played a large part in combat in 3rd before 4th edition huh?

sorry, healing doesnt have to do with combat, as it dosnt reflect only combat. you can have need of healing outside of combat...

AC used when in combat, to hit...for combat, damage done.. combat...sometimes out of combat.

those are your combat stats: attack, damage, and AC. always have been and always will be.

3rd i guess saves are combat stats too, because i have no fucking clue what they represent.

so anything else is NOT a combat item...it just happens to be useful at times in combat. examples: rope, torch, etc.

[Winnah]

the majority of them. bags of holding, amulet of crabs, amulet of health, all items that give ability score boosts, perform mundane tasks, affect movement, confer flight,....

Bag of holding: Where you hold you delicate consumables, unconscious party members or captured enemies. Combine with portable hole and basic engineering for arrows of annihilation.

Amulet of crabs: Cursed item. Summons crab people and grants devatating pinch attacks. Makes you itchy.

amulet of health: More hit points, better fortitude saves.

Items that confer ability score boosts: More strength, you hit harder and deal more damage. More dex, better ranged and AC. Constitution covered above. Mental stats increase alertness and social proficiency (intimidations, negotiating surrender), also boost relevant spellcasting ability.

Items that allow you to perform mundane tasks: now perform mundane tasks and fight at the same time!

Items that effect movement and confer flight: Tactical movement in combat! Unthinkable!