The Gaming Den

I have a bit of a request. Has anyone played this game?

http://www.somethingawful.com/d/dungeon ... incess.php

The article is mostly reviewing the artwork, but I'm curious about the actual game. Has anyone played this game? The fucked up artwork has me intrigued.

I browsed it, once. It seemed rather generic and nothing really struck with me - IIRC, there's a free, artwork and settingless version given out by the designers?

Ah, I wasn't aware of that.

I glanced at it at one point, it seemed like a somewhat updated Basic D&D. Well-intentioned, but outdated.

It's a retroclone as Angel noted, one of the unfortunate majority of such that clings to antiquated rules like descending AC. It's actually pared down from full version 1e D&D, it's a rules light version.

So what's the best retroclone around then

Tunnels & Trolls.

Kidding aside, the latest edition of Hackmaster is fairly competent for casual D&D style stuff with an actual setting attached.

I'd like the see Lamentations of the Flame Princess do a take on Palace of the Silver Princess, just for shits and giggles.

So basically, there's nothing either exceptionally good nor exceptionally bad to go on about. Finland, I am disappoint.

WTF, D&D always just makes fun of the art, for what it's worth.

The encumbrance rules are good, it makes them actually be something you can keep track of.

Count Arioch the 28th wrote:So basically, there's nothing either exceptionally good nor exceptionally bad to go on about. Finland, I am disappoint.

There is nothing exceptionally good or exceptionally bad about the mechanics. The fluff, on the other hand.

Here's an excerpt from the description of the Fighter class.

Slaughter defines man’s history. Every new era is defined by the cruelty man inflicts upon man, or the victory fighting against it. To those in power, soldiers are but tools to shape the populace to their whims. The price that is paid to enact their desires is irrelevant to those giving the orders.

Fighters are these soldiers that have seen the cruelty of battle, have committed atrocities that in any
just universe will damn them to Hell, and have survived.

And this one from the Magic User description.

Most of the world lies sheltered from the existence of magic, encountering
it only as it victimizes them. They huddle in their churches for comfort,
and trade their freedom and dignity to a ruler as they beg for protection,
all for the fear of the supernatural which they do not, and cannot,
understand.

It also has rules for owning slaves (as part of the more general rules for employing retainers) and even explains what a slave is.

Slaves are intelligent beings who are owned by others.

Yes thank you, I wouldn't have known that if I hadn't read the game rules.

Apparently you can buy children for the low price of 25 GP each. If you were into that sort of thing.


It's also got surprisingly detailed (but still rather light) rules for owning land and managing an estate, including paying taxes.

Taxes
A landowning character must pay d4+3% of the property’s value per year
in taxes, adding another 1% if an accountant is not on staff.

Actually, it dedicates just as much space to estate management and employees as it does to combat (15 pages for both).

It's got an interesting take on Alignment. Lawful means that you have a destiny, chaotic means that you have been touched by magic, and every human who has ever lived in the real world is neutral. In essence, having an Alignment means that one of the cosmic powers that be has screwed you over and you're explicitly better off as Neutral (though Magic Users must be Chaotic). It really doesn't have anything to do with our personality.

The setting, such as it is, is blead and bare bones.. Mostly they just have bare bones recommendations for making your own settings. Those recomendations include this gem.

It is recommended that civilized areas conform to real-world norms as
much as possible. Magic-Users do not sit on the throne, priests in the
church are not Clerics to heal the wounds of the populace. Civilized lands
suffer famine, plague, oppression, poverty, and all the ills that pre-
industrial society had to offer. The poor are poor.

Which is really bleak.

The one adventure I looked at contains a mildly racist depiction of a real world ethnic minority (but they're also innocent victims of racism so I guess that balances out).

And Something Awful totally left out the male full frontal. You can't miss the gigantic wang in the referee's book.It just leaps right out at you.

There's some unusual mechanical stuff. The Fighter is the only class whose BAB-equivalent improves with levels. Because of this, monster AC shouldn't be expected to improve with level, and a high level Fighter should auto-hit almost everything.

Count, I followed that link because of you, and saw that art. I hate you now.

lotfp is a mediocre old-school retroclone. that means it's less concerned about rules and more concerned about making things up. and the summon monster spell seriously gives the chance for the spellcaster to cause an otherworldly invasion. also the writing is terrible.

OgreBattle wrote:So what's the best retroclone around then

Labyrinth Lord is pretty good, if you want or need a lot of the extra rules then OSRIC has nearly everything I think.

OgreBattle wrote:So what's the best retroclone around then

Freebase.

OgreBattle wrote:So what's the best retroclone around then

Microlite D20.

I'm thinking about picking up a new module or 2. Has anyone played God that Crawls or Tales of the Scarecrow?

@ Arioch:

There's a list of downloads links for the art-free rules in the column to the right.

And no I haven't played it. You'll have better luck asking around on rpg.net or The RPG Site, given that the Den doesn't have a big "Old School" crowd.

OgreBattle wrote:So what's the best retroclone around then

I haven't played any due to lack of group interest, but if you want something closest to Original D&D you can't go wrong with Swords & Wizardry or Labyrinth Lord. For something closest to 1st Edition AD&D OSRIC's a good choice.

But for best in the sense of personal preference, I do like Adventurer Conqueror King. One for using a simplified version of Vancian Casting, is the best retroclone for caster-noncaster balance (what I've heard from others, not personal experience), and has rules for PCs as rulers. Run a thieves' guild, build your own monster-filled dungeon, cross-breed magical beasts? Yes, yes, and yes!

I love Lamentations, but more because of its style than because the mechanics are especially brilliant objectively speaking -although for a retroclone, I'd say it's pretty thought-out and interesting. Plus, the game inexplicably makes me feel like I'm running a Fritz Leiber character whenever I play it.

P.S: It does not use descending AC. It does use 2e-style saving throws, though: Paralysis, Poison, Breath Weapon, Magical Device and Magic.

Dungeon World is the best retroclone.

LotFP is a no-count retroclone that's only notable because of the weird shit (and the writer using his ex as the victim of guro in the hardcore art version). Saying you like the style raises...questions.

Mask_De_H wrote:Dungeon World is the best retroclone.

A contentious assertion. Why do you think Dungeon World is the best retroclone?

I enjoy Darker Dungeons, though the fact that Magic Users totally own over Elves requires GM rectification in play, through giving Elves a really cool backstory.

Otherwise, that'd be my favorite. It's basically BECMI DnD with streamlined mechanics.

I wasn't impressed when I read Adventurer Conqueror King. Apparently I didn't give it its due?


EDIT - I really, really disliked Apocalypse World, because I am a horrible person that used the rules to amass tremendous powah. I reflexively assume that Dungeon World is more of the same?