Ressurecting TNE, again

[virgil]

Alright, we all remember the piles of threads created in response to the announcement of 4E in a vague goal of getting an RPG that would be just as good.

I highly doubt anyone really cares about my personal OSR-inspired system, though the system is just about finished except for prestige classes and fleshing out the old-school D&D setting; oh, and playtesting.

Let's get the ball rolling, because I'm willing to just start from the piles of notes created by what's been created.

I like CAN, and will seek to use that.

The important part is what setting/genre the system is intended to create. I've got a few favorites myself...

• Atayala and the rest of the Culture Focus series: A Chinese/Siberian fantasy world, where the weather magic Atayalan empire has fallen due to proliferation of iron/Void magic, where merchant cities sit on floating islands, cockatrices are bred on bloodroot on the fields, and ant-people eke out life in irradiated deserts.
• Sumeru: A high-fantasy world, combining the elements of M:tG with Indian mythology, where every race has lost its karma.
• D&D
• Teslavania: Alternate history, steampunk world, where Tesla and Stoker's Dracula both exist.
• Black Forest: Fairytale world, as told by Brothers Grimm, where you play Riding Hood and Prince Philip alike (in progression, not at the same time)
• Raygun Gothic (specifics needed): Buck Godot meets John Carter of Mars meets Star Wars meets Flash Gordon

[CatharzGodfoot]

The Culture Focus series always seemed the most D&D-compatible to me. Although IMO Ormigans are too obviously alien to be one of two major base races, and would be more acceptable as 'dwarves', 'elves', or 'goblins' (which all mean basically the same thing anyway).

There's still a lot worth taking from Sumeru, like Aghori "blackguards".

[virgil]

Let us go ahead and make a poll of the setting stuff, so we know which direction to start working towards.

[the_taken]

I almost voted for Sumeru. Almost.

[erik]

Steampunk and vampires certainly seem to be in popular favor right now. Seems like if wanting to be successful those would be good niches to market towards.

[Dominicius]

Could you make a little one sentence blurb next to each setting to tell us what each one is about?

[DSMatticus]

Steampunk tesla vampires? That has my attention, to be honest.

[...You Lost Me]

... I hear TNE combined with a lot of stuff, but I really don't understand it.

What is it?

[virgil]

Could you make a little one sentence blurb next to each setting to tell us what each one is about?

Blurbs created.

In regards to TNE, there's a sticky here on the IMHO with a list of TNE threads. To be honest, it's easier to refer you to that rather than trying to paraphrase it all.

[RobbyPants]

... I hear TNE combined with a lot of stuff, but I really don't understand it.

What is it?

It's short for The New Edition. As Virgil said, it's sticked at the top of the forum.

[RadiantPhoenix]

TNE = The Next Edition (of D&D)

[Prak]

Teslavania sounds the most interesting to me. Followed by a tie between Raygun Gothic and Black Forest.

[JigokuBosatsu]

I really like the idea of Teslavania- in part because it can fold in stuff like The Prestige, Atomic Robo, etc. Or maybe Vampire Hunter D at the extreme end. Or even, if you really stretch, the Studio Ghibli universe.

I was wondering about that- I did some brief searching but it doesn't seem to be something anyone's done- doing a Miyazaki RPG. I know Spirited Away and Princess Mononoke are set in a sort of mythic Japan, but even they seem to fit well with weird steampunk world that Howl's Moving Castle and Laputa.

[virgil]

The loss of humanity as seen in Howl's Moving Castle and Ponyo, would take a fair bit from the stress rules Frank's been contemplating for his Cyberpunk Heartbreaker.

Now, there's debate as to whether I want to tap into that aspect of the setting. The inherent angst as seen in even the start of the modern vampire (note: Dracula isn't the beginning) lends itself towards this, as does any/all of the magic inherent in Dracula's world (mysticism, shapeshifting, weather-control). The mad scientist is also called mad for a reason, so sparks losing their humanity with greater and greater inventions. This is a world of Vampire Hunter D, Howl's Moving Castle, Frankenstein, & the Prestige.

Then of course we can avoid all that and not touch on the loss of humanity, control, and/or social acceptance. Instead, we tell a story more akin to Girl Genius or Hellboy, where players fight Commie Nazi Vampires.

[virgil]

Now, as much fun as *I* would have playing a game with a deep element of subterfuge and the like as seen in Shadowrun, there's a gamer problem. Unless the options are spelled out in front of them, they won't consider it; and in many cases, if the first option they choose out of the list doesn't work (not a deeply considered selection anyway), then they will default to stabbing. At which point, the entire narrative breaks down from the natural consequences of eviscerating the mayor and wearing his skin, for the audacity of refusing to forgo the save against the oncoming mind control spell.

Like it or not, they are a sizable portion of the gaming community, and a majority in my personal experience.

So, in all likelihood of success with my gaming access as well as the more common community at large, I shall aim more towards the genre of Hellsing and Girl Genius; thus no Stress subsystem, and full incorporation of the CAN system for the progression of glass-cannon to imp.

[Grek]

My personal preference would be Sumeru's setting with the mechanics laid out here: http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=38226&start=125

[virgil]

There seems to be a sizable preference for my Teslavania: the Next Edition (TNE, for short).

Now, the important facet to this is what stories do we want to tell? Going for steampunk motif means we want to draw upon

• Girl Genius
• Island of Doctor Moreau
• 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea
• Atomic Robo
• Dr Grordbort's Contrapulatronic Dingus Directory

For the magic, supernatural angle that we're obviously going to be including in all this, we have the following sources to draw from:

• Dracula
• Goblin Market
• Varney the Vampire
• Hellboy

The genre will be pulp, for certain, as we're aiming for a more D&D-oriented crowd. We want mooks, and not just trained soldiers. We want the Clockworks of the Slave-State of Thelomeris, or Svyatogor's Bogatyr Legion.

The setting needs to incorporate historical facts intertwined with the magic and steampunk technology. Conflict in the setting will be naturally found through reading history books.

Girl Genius and Hellsing are the peak examples of capability, but still reachable by the players. What starting level characters can do is still a question.

[Username17]

I found considerable pushback when it comes to making anything that isn't a kitchen sink fantasy world. The moment you say that there aren't any hippo people or centaurs or whatever, people flip the fuck out.

Kitchen Sink Fantasy is fucking stupid, but I genuinely don't think the gaming public is OK with there being less than eight sapient races.

-Username17

[RadiantPhoenix]

Girl Genius has at least several races that could plausibly be playable...

[Username17]

Girl Genius has at least several races that could plausibly be playable...

Yeah, but people want cities full of elves and dwarves and hobgoblins and mansheep.

-Username17

[JigokuBosatsu]

Maybe there can be something like Moorcock did in his Von Bek books, where there is a Mittelmarch area that blurs the lines between regular old Europe and Fairyland. You'd be less likely to find a bunch of rooster-headed guys just hanging around downtown London, but the world could be more accepting of it.

Or you could just go full China Mieville and say fuck it.

[Username17]

Or you could just go full China Mieville and say fuck it.

Just as players want to play fighters that are equal to wizards and want the wizards to be able to do things that fighters cannot - the demands of kitchen sinking are likewise ridiculous. People want hundreds of races. Not even dozens. Seriously hundreds. Then they want demographics of those races to be such that every one of them is as demographically important as Black people.

Yes. They want hundreds of different species that are all about twelve percent of the population. Also they want a clear human majority on top of that. The literal statistical impossibility of having more than 3 major minorities and a distinct majority group should be obvious. But it's seriously what people want.

-Username17

[virgil]

I have two methods in mind in terms of handling the Kitchen Sink crowd, if and when they give me hassle. The first is to include tid-bits on how to make a monster, and what makes a race balanced in the system; let them decide how to go about making pixies and inject them on their own. There will be a mutable race like the ormigans or something, and I'll use the process for them to create a fixed race with reskinning, then they'll be a sidebar writeup "for your favorite fantasy setting of choice." If they choose to go kitchen sink and run into conflict between rules and setting/genre, that's their own fault, as any work I put into it won't factor in the sidebars.

The second is to take an apathetic attitude on certain decisions. When it's something aesthetic (in their eyes) like hollow worlds or centaurs, I won't go into detail why I'm not including them. I'll just say I'm not interested in making it, maybe toss out a beer napkin design for a sidebar, and largely ignore it.

In fact, sidebar design seems like it might be a good venue for letting off steam in regards to people clamouring for undesirable elements in the system. Something low in thought and quickly typed. It's akin to a pulp blog post for a 3.X gamer. They're going to make house-rules and homebrew stuff, just make sure they're aware the game is made for the setting, but it's their fun and they can do what they want with it.

[Mask_De_H]

Or you could just go full China Mieville and say fuck it.

Just as players want to play fighters that are equal to wizards and want the wizards to be able to do things that fighters cannot - the demands of kitchen sinking are likewise ridiculous. People want hundreds of races. Not even dozens. Seriously hundreds. Then they want demographics of those races to be such that every one of them is as demographically important as Black people.

Yes. They want hundreds of different species that are all about twelve percent of the population. Also they want a clear human majority on top of that. The literal statistical impossibility of having more than 3 major minorities and a distinct majority group should be obvious. But it's seriously what people want.

-Username17

Why not bullshit them by making a minority banner that contains many different subgroups but function as one general group for the purposes of mechanics and demographics? Basically virgil's first idea, but with several mutable races.

A Human/Fae/Beastie/Spirit can keep the human majority, get your Human/Elf/Dwarf/Hobbit Tolkien ur-racial split on and allow enough flexibility in design to buck that trend in fluff while still giving a loophole out for the Kitchen Sinkers.

[LargePrime]

seems to imply different city states/countries/continents.

But do you not just get one up and working and then add to it, or let the fan generated content do it?

You can make references to other city states/countries/continents in the material so they "know" its coming.