how little is too little?

shadzar · Post by **shadzar** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:14 pm

how much does a player really need to play D&D.

the character sheet only has the players name on it...and is a normal sheet of writing paper.

what else does he REALLY need?

Character's name

what else?

try to narrow down the information needed to play the game.. a role playing game, but sticking to D&D in ALL its forms.

Bill Bisco: Isometric Imp · Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:22 pm

You don't need name or even a piece of paper. I could just be yelling bang bang, and the other person could just say "missed me. Bang bang"

And that's not D&D, that's MTP. D&D needs numbers, period, and you're silly for suggesting otherwise.

tussock · Post by **tussock** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:50 pm

D&D? Class and Level. Six stats, plus a few derived ones like hit points, AC, and saves. Spells to cast for the casters (and maybe others). Thieves with some MTP bypassing mechanics.

Your character certainly doesn't need a name. Oh, they can usually pick some number of combat and non-combat abilities to differentiate them, mostly as flavour, besides the spells.

Movement limits. Number of attacks per round. ... Alignment. Languages spoken. Number of Iron Rations in your pack.

shadzar · Post by **shadzar** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:21 pm

tussock wrote:D&D? Class and Level. Six stats, plus a few derived ones like hit points, AC, and saves. Spells to cast for the casters (and maybe others). Thieves with some MTP bypassing mechanics.

Your character certainly doesn't need a name. Oh, they can usually pick some number of combat and non-combat abilities to differentiate them, mostly as flavour, besides the spells.

Movement limits. Number of attacks per round. ... Alignment. Languages spoken. Number of Iron Rations in your pack.

im going to break this down into more generic terms...or try to.

Class and level
HP
armor
spells
rate of movement
alignment
languages
equipment

i left a few things out for now to consider on, but these above...

class and level is kind of needed for an RPG..it shows progress of the character or growth as a book can for the game

HP.. you got to know when you can and cant play

armor...you need to know SOMETHING about your defense or that you have one...not sure if a player REALLY needs to know AC.

spells.. yeah you got to have something to use magic with other than magic producing equipment

ROM.....everyone COLD move at the same rate... i am sure you forgot..but race is missing form your list, which further shows it doesnt really matter for movement and everyone CAN move at the same speed.

alignment.. whether just good and evil like D&D ot good and evil, law and chaos, like AD&D and 3.x...some sort of this would be good to have. jsut NOT the 9 hole you try to place your peg into... if using both.. well you know what i say on that.. just look at each part individually and NEVER try to mix them to create Lawful Good. instead make it Lawful / Good. always check each as they NEVER really have anything to do with each other.

languages.. if you have more than one, then you need to know about them and a chance to know more than one, otherwise not needed for a single language.

gear.. yeah you need to know if you ran out of arrows or food. resource tracking is a big part of the game. you cant buy food in 3 days from now, but be eating it today. no Whimpy Rations.

stats...does the player really need a number for this? if you have bend bars etc..then it must be derived form somewhere.. but do you need all those division of them or would a single number for each work.. im not sure how to think or treat stats yet.

saves... is 5 or even 3 needed, or a save for each type... or maybe just ONE save, or none if you say a save is based on those stats that i havent figured the workings out on yet. saves are then like an "ability check" roll under strength and you saved versus the poison kind of thing...

thieves bit you need to elaborate on, and IF thieves are really needed as a class? arent ALL adventurers in a sense thieves as they partake in grave robbing?

abilities as flavor... is this needed? as flavor.. well abilities is just stuff you can do like fire-building, and you dont need some big list.. but should it be as small and simple like 4th and its what.. 11 skills or something like that? again couldnt an ability check do the job? combat abilities specifically.. what is different from poking with a sword and swinging it... couldnt it do the same damage so does it need different abilities or "moves" to do this? maybe i misunderstand "combat abilities" as you wrote it?

so ability scores or the "six stats" can handle saves and "abilities" without needing two more systems or lists for them.

also under gear.. any money of course.

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:33 pm

Yeah, the way Conan did adventuring, thieves was more like " you have a high Dex and you took a skill that refined it towards thieving"

Honestly, doing wacky high damage with sneak attack is pretty weird as a class exclusive feature, especially with hit points as Hero Points

shadzar · Post by **shadzar** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:49 pm

OgreBattle wrote:Yeah, the way Conan did adventuring, thieves was more like " you have a high Dex and you took a skill that refined it towards thieving"

Honestly, doing wacky high damage with sneak attack is pretty weird as a class exclusive feature, especially with hit points as Hero Points

so you think thief is a wasted attempt at a class and everyone should be able to be one, or it is needed so it CAN have backstab sneak attacks speciality?

i am thinking mind you, that you mean a flanking attack anyone should be able to do rather than a small group of people...and it may give some benefit to making such an attack from outside of the field of vision of the one you are attacking?

TheFlatline · Post by **TheFlatline** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:31 pm

shadzar wrote:
OgreBattle wrote:Yeah, the way Conan did adventuring, thieves was more like " you have a high Dex and you took a skill that refined it towards thieving"

Honestly, doing wacky high damage with sneak attack is pretty weird as a class exclusive feature, especially with hit points as Hero Points
so you think thief is a wasted attempt at a class and everyone should be able to be one, or it is needed so it CAN have backstab sneak attacks speciality?

i am thinking mind you, that you mean a flanking attack anyone should be able to do rather than a small group of people...and it may give some benefit to making such an attack from outside of the field of vision of the one you are attacking?

Sneaky McBackstab as a character class arises from having constantly increasing hit point totals as you level up, and having completely flat weapon damage. By level 10 getting stabbed with a dagger is a complete non-issue for pretty much any character, while in real life getting stabbed by 8 inches of sharp pointy steel is a life-threatening wound.

JonSetanta · Post by **JonSetanta** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:59 pm

You need a teacup and some liquid, or maybe even pretend there's liquid in it.

RadiantPhoenix · Post by **RadiantPhoenix** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:32 pm

shadzar · Post by **shadzar** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:51 pm

you have confused me where some things like "speed" is duplicated there as to WHY they are duplicated?

ishy · Post by **ishy** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:39 pm

One is probably movement speed and the other initiative.

shadzar · Post by **shadzar** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:49 am

that makes sense and, well it looks as simple and pretty as the first ones...

JonSetanta · Post by **JonSetanta** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:16 am

shadzar wrote:that makes sense and, well it looks as simple and pretty as the first ones...

Where's the place you put "GP" and "Items"? Where's the line for "Race"?
Should I just scribble that loosely on the empty back of the page?

And every character sheet worth something has a tiny box in which you crudely sketch your character's profile, naturally.
At least your sheets have that... although not much else.

shadzar · Post by **shadzar** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:52 am

sigma999 wrote:
shadzar wrote:that makes sense and, well it looks as simple and pretty as the first ones...
Where's the place you put "GP" and "Items"? Where's the line for "Race"?
Should I just scribble that loosely on the empty back of the page?

And every character sheet worth something has a tiny box in which you crudely sketch your character's profile, naturally.
At least your sheets have that... although not much else.

GP and items went on the same thing they always did and still do.. a sheet of loose-leaf paper.

your race was human.. you could choose elf as a class if you wanted.

JonSetanta · Post by **JonSetanta** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:22 pm

shadzar wrote: your race was human.. you could choose elf as a class if you wanted.

Oh so it's 1e or "old AD&D" from my recollection. Dwarf too, right? Maybe halfling. "Hobbit".

shadzar · Post by **shadzar** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:47 am

sigma999 wrote:
shadzar wrote: your race was human.. you could choose elf as a class if you wanted.
Oh so it's 1e or "old AD&D" from my recollection. Dwarf too, right? Maybe halfling. "Hobbit".

no those are D&D, not AD&D character sheets. like for BECMI and B/X.

its BEFORE AD&D..though those sheets may have been sold after AD&D was released.

RadiantPhoenix · Post by **RadiantPhoenix** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:31 am

shadzar wrote:you have confused me where some things like "speed" is duplicated there as to WHY they are duplicated?

The bits in all caps would be permanent fixtures on the character sheet labeling parts of it.

shadzar · Post by **shadzar** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:47 pm

RadiantPhoenix wrote:
shadzar wrote:you have confused me where some things like "speed" is duplicated there as to WHY they are duplicated?
The bits in all caps would be permanent fixtures on the character sheet labeling parts of it.

ok CAPS = the form, and the other is the notes for each blank what goes in it when filled. gotcha.