Potential Campaign, worth it?

[virgil]

I've been having lots of frustrations with my current gaming group, and the only other gaming group has been spoken of before ad nauseum on this board. I found one place that might accept me, but before I start talking to them, I figured I'd give them a once over. They have a page of house rules; the question is, does this look like a bad idea to get into for my girlfriend and I?

[Kaelik]

Well I notice all those houserules are arbitrary nerfs to things that don't need to be nerfed.

So... Just be aware that there is like a 50% chance that the DM is going to be passively aggressively mean to you and then talk about how you are a rollplayer not a roleplayer.

If those odds sound good to you, good luck.

[...You Lost Me]

His GitP stuff shows that he's OK with deciding balance (not perfect), is very proactive with game-writing, and can hold a civil conversation on the internet.

I would join, because he actually seems like a good guy. Chance of Passive-Aggressiveness is more like 25%.

[Red_Rob]

Does it really matter how system proficient he and the group are? If all the characters are about Core Fighter level and the DM modulates the challenges accordingly, wouldn't it be better to make a character that fits in rather than make a God character just to show your geek penis is bigger than theirs? This seems like a "reverse Stormwind" fallacy. Just because they aren't great at system balance doesn't mean they can't make a fun game of D&D.

Ultimately the only way you'll find out is to try showing up, and if it's not to your tastes you can just not show up again. All you are risking is an afternoon.

[virgil]

It seems to be 3rd level, most/all Pathfinder books with the Player's Guide to Faerun included (free regional feat or two traits); and judging by material, this guy loves him some Forgotten Realms. In fact, the campaign is " circa 1360 DR during the Tuigan invasion and occupation of Rashemi." And is starting out with the group helping end Tuigan occupation.

I've never touched Forgotten Realms myself, so I need to go through quite a bit of material to know the setting worth a damn (regional feats especially). The big question is design advice for my girlfriend. She wants to be a sneaky rogue type (doesn't want to spend all that fiddly effort keeping track of spells for being a caster), and I can only guess that means the ninja.

[Prak]

Last time I had to design a character for a girlfriend with that same criteria, I was pointed towards Whisper Gnome, if you can get the DM to approve it, it's a good race. Beyond that, hell, flask rogue, I can't imagine that's not viable in PF.

[Quantumboost]

Beyond that, hell, flask rogue, I can't imagine that's not viable in PF.

It's been awhile since I paid attention to Pathfinder, but I recall mention on this board that Flask Rogue was very specifically a thing that was nerfed to nonfeasibility. Via nerfing Blink and preventing splash weapon sneak attacks.

Here: http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?p=237509#237509

[Whatever]

Whisper Gnome is hilarious. It's like someone made a list of the kinds of bonuses appropriate for a LA +0 race, and then took all of them, plus some SLAs. Not actually overpowered, because getting stuff like Alertness for free is such a marginal benefit, but it's funny to see the list of racial abilities just keep going on and on.

[Prak]

Beyond that, hell, flask rogue, I can't imagine that's not viable in PF.

It's been awhile since I paid attention to Pathfinder, but I recall mention on this board that Flask Rogue was very specifically a thing that was nerfed to nonfeasibility. Via nerfing Blink and preventing splash weapon sneak attacks.

Here: http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?p=237509#237509

Ah, damn. So give her a couple torches. Or a magic item of At Will Produce Flame (actually that would be pretty awesome). Or possibly negotiate with the DM that splash weapons can be used with sneak attack, but lose the splash radius, because you're targeting a specific person (which I'm pretty sure is at least half the reason splash weapons were nerfed this way in PF).

(was going to suggest multiclassing artificer, but that sucks for the exact same reason that multiclassing rogue/warlock would suck in 3.5.)

Actually, talk to the GM about Bracers of Produce Flame (CL2, Command Word, 50 charges) for 1800g. It's well under wealth for 3rd level, and the only downside is that she'll have to take a standard action, and spend a charge to reactivate it after two thrown attacks. If she sticks to melee, she'll get strength (if she has any) and one use is good for all of combat. Hell, talk to him about the idea of items that replicate spells having a caster level equal to the character level of the user, he might bring it up with the group, and that way the Pyromaniac trait makes her fire attacks a bit better.

[Kaelik]

but lose the splash radius, because you're targeting a specific person (which I'm pretty sure is at least half the reason splash weapons were nerfed this way in PF).

You are an idiot. It never gave SA damage on the splash. It was nerfed because we showed them the flask rogue, and they threw a fit about how rogues should only get one attack per round and certainly not against touch AC.

So they nerfed the Ring of Blink and the flask throwing specifically because those where the ways we showed them Rogues get lots of SA.

They literally said, "Oh, the flask rogue exists? Let's fucking ban it."

[Whatever]

Custom magic items are, in my experience, one of the least popular suggestions you can make to a DM. If you can avoid them, you should.

That said, stabbing people in the face works just fine in Pathfinder, and if you're a rogue, you should probably do that.

[hogarth]

The big question is design advice for my girlfriend. She wants to be a sneaky rogue type (doesn't want to spend all that fiddly effort keeping track of spells for being a caster), and I can only guess that means the ninja.

How experienced is your girlfriend with a typical D&D campaign? Because I find that people who aren't well acquainted with D&D tend to think that playing a sneaky character would be really cool, but it's generally not nearly as cool in practice.

For a sneaky character, I'd probably go with something like the Sandman bard archetype.

[virgil]

The big question is design advice for my girlfriend. She wants to be a sneaky rogue type (doesn't want to spend all that fiddly effort keeping track of spells for being a caster), and I can only guess that means the ninja.

How experienced is your girlfriend with a typical D&D campaign? Because I find that people who aren't well acquainted with D&D tend to think that playing a sneaky character would be really cool, but it's generally not nearly as cool in practice.

For a sneaky character, I'd probably go with something like the Sandman bard archetype.

Her experience is less than a year, solely in games run by me. She's enjoyed her goblin tome assassin (the most out this list), her 3.5 druid (focused on the pre-chosen summon list), her pegacorn princess superhero in M&M, and a handful of various one/two-shot games.

[hogarth]

Her experience is less than a year, solely in games run by me. She's enjoyed her goblin tome assassin (the most out this list), her 3.5 druid (focused on the pre-chosen summon list), her pegacorn princess superhero in M&M, and a handful of various one/two-shot games.

I thought I read that you had run her through some one-on-one games or something like that.

You probably have it covered already, but I think it's worthwhile reinforcing the fact that in a multi-PC game, sneaking is often less cool than in a solo game. (E.g. when one person is sneaking, the rest of the players feel like they're sitting around doing nothing.)

[virgil]

One thing I am curious about is whether to bother with some of the ideas I've got for the game. I have one: a Crossblooded Primal/Draconic sorcerer with magical lineage & wayang spellhunter tuned to some level 1 damaging spell, then take the Extra Traits feat for Precocious Spellcaster. and Gifted Adept, apply some +1 metamagic feat (intensified later) to make it a cantrip and thus at-will; and start off with a 5d6+10 at-will ability at level 3.

Or instead of doing a damage blaster, skip the sorcerer part and take the above traits toward magic missile, then apply the toppling spell metamagic on it for 1d4+1 damage per missile that also trips as an at-will attack.

[hogarth]

One thing I am curious about is whether to bother with some of the ideas I've got for the game. I have one: a Crossblooded Primal/Draconic sorcerer with magical lineage & wayang spellhunter tuned to some level 1 damaging spell, then take the Extra Traits feat for Precocious Spellcaster. and Gifted Adept, apply some +1 metamagic feat (intensified later) to make it a cantrip and thus at-will; and start off with a 5d6+10 at-will ability at level 3.

Unless I missed a house rule (possible, since I skimmed them), you can't take 2 Magic traits (Gifted Adept, Magical Lineage). I'm not sure if you can take 2 Regional traits either.

[virgil]

Ah, my bad. The second two (Precocious & Gifted) aren't terribly important to the build anyway since they only increase caster level; opens up a feat for general use as well.

Of course, it's only an idea, as meta-metamagic is very likely to get dour opinions. My girlfriend advised that since I want to avoid going especially crazy, I also shouldn't do this one idea I had of a Captain Marvel expy using a Synthesis Summoner (Billy Batson replaced with the wizard Shazam).

[virgil]

He has a thread on the Giant's Playground detailing his campaign conversion notes: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236096

From what I can tell, he's definitely a fan of Pathfinder, seemingly not seeing a caster/noncaster disparity due to lack of poor experience; which implies he's either a heavy railroader or no player has used their caster to capacity around him.

[codeGlaze]

Try it out, see how it goes.
If it's fun enough to stick around for, try nudging them in a better homebrew direction. Doesn't have to be overt; you could just start off with suggestions and 'cool ideas' at first.

[OgreBattle]

Is this a play by post game?

[virgil]

Face to face.

My girlfriend, seeing the above posts and thinking about the issues of going heavy melee if there are casters in the group (AoEs are a pain), she's decided to go with archer. I myself an debating between the above sorcerer with at-will ranged shocking grasp and a bog-standard wizard.

[Prak]

It's a shame she doesn't want to cast, since cleric archers are pretty damned awesome. (to the point that I'm regretting not looking up all the tricks before making mine, and thus somewhat stupidly getting a bow that can't use normal ammo, only arrows it creates.)

[virgil]

It's been an issue of complexity. She doesn't like the idea of having a character sheet four pages long just to keep track of what she can do (which is still more efficient than just listing the spell names and referencing all the time). I know from personal experience how devastating an archer can be if designed properly, and she's fine with me showing her the primary 'tricks' to do so.

The DM has posted what the setup is like for the meetup:

Game Recap:

After scouting out the battlefield, the PCs captured a wayward scout that went off on his own and returned him to the hidden Rashemi base of operations.

The spy revealed, after some hours of interrogation by one of the local witches, the following:

- The leader of the occupation forces is a Tuigan Oracle of Akadi named Shal-Kal-Ekh, a lieutenant of the leader of the entire Tuigan Horde. He is surrounded by the elite of the elite of the army.

- He has given information on the supply lines used by the Tuigan as well as the general policies enacted for the occupation.

- He has given (approximate) numbers of the horde itself - of the 20,000 soldiers of the occupation horde, there are 5000 each of chargers and archers with 4000 combat magicians, 2000 commanders, 1000 each of elite archers and chargers, 1000 scouts, and 1000 cavalry.

- Not included in that estimate include an adult blue dragon named Aavarinaaxius - a scheming creature that has aided the Tuigan in the hopes of personally controlling one of the Rashemi cities. (The young blue dragon was a younger sister of this dragon.) There are also uncounted summoned air elementals (mostly small and medium) that were ported in via a interplanar portal that has since been destroyed by Rashemi resistance long before the PCs arrival. In addition to hordes of trained horses, they also use hyenas, hyenadons, Cockatrices, and gnolls (for skirmishes), though their numbers are relatively insignificant.

It'll take 5 days (from the start of the game on sunday) for all the necessary weapons and baseline supplies to arrive as well as a significant amount of wood and ammunition. One of the witches has also procured 10 ballistas each with 5 +1 dragonbane bolts.

Another 15 days, the regime will receive steel weapons and armor smuggled from Mulhorand and defensive supplies and alchemical weapons.

10 days later, a powerful hathuran and her allies will arrive to bolster an offensive, should the army attack the redoubt and it hold up until then.

During/after the scout spilled the beans, the PCs murdered a few patrols but eventually attacked the main supply line of the Tuigan occuption via a path through the mountains from the golden way. The plan was successful, save for a young but injured dragon that survived and attacked the party, slaughtering the Rashemi that accompanied them and one of the witches before being finished off.

The PCs then returned to base to plan their next move.

It looks like he's attempting to restart a campaign he was running before.

[virgil]

Slight update on my choices:
* Bog-standard Diviner Wizard: I'm a huge fan of Wild Magic from Forgotten Realms, so I will try to be a Primalist as well with this build.
* Tiefling Witch: Slumber specialization (Ability Focus and everything), a scarred half-orc witch was an option, but the numbers were too wonky
* Sorcerer Tripstar: Sorta, the most glaring 'trick' with the Magic Lineage and Wayang Spellhunter for the at-will Tripping Magic Missile, but not the most powerful
* Synthesist Summoner: I'm envisioning a nice version of Mummra
* Alchemist: Not sure what the best build is (bombs, mutagens, some special combo?), especially in comparison to the above choices

[ishy]

What about a human with : Racial heritage or just being an orc
And then witch alternate
So you can make a nice con based witch?