Alternate Cleric for those games that want them

[Koumei]

Note: I'm well aware the Cleric works fine with the "No you don't know every spell ever" clause in most Tome games. There are specific groups that still have a "No Clerics, Druids and Wizards" rule though, and this is to address the specific concerns of said groups as regards Clerics.

The Cleric

"In the name of the concept of time, I bless you. Go forth, and take your time."

What's even wrong with the core Cleric? I'm glad you asked. In many Tome games, absolutely nothing - go right ahead. In other games, though? In some games, people want characters with a more limited scope of abilities - and by people, I mean Mister Cavern, who actually gets to call the shots. We all think it's bullshit that Clerics automatically know every spell ever, but some aren't content with "All Core + 1 extra per level", and actually want tighter limits. Yes, there are games that are "Most Tome stuff is allowed, also no Wizards, Druids or Clerics". For that kind of game, this Cleric exists to have fewer spells available, to still have those specific "Undo status effects around the same time those conditions crop up at all" and to have a bigger difference between a Cleric of Bahamut, a Cleric of Lolth and a Cleric of Your Mum (without making separate entire classes). They also get a few fairly minor class features that make it feel like you're actually getting something on even levels, because if you don't get new spell levels, people forget that new spells known and spell slots are actual class features.

Playing a Cleric: Clerics really want a good Wisdom. That is super important for their spellcasting. After that it depends on whether they want to be front-line combatants (Strength and Constitution) or go around spreading the word and using the other minor powers a lot (Charisma).

Hit Dice: d8
Skill Points: 4 + Int
Class Skills: Concentrate, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Knowledge (Religion), Knowledge (The Planes), Listen, Perform, Sense Motive. Each deity, philosophy or cause should also have a group of other important skills - add up to four more, depending on what you and Mister Cavern agree on.

Alignment: If the Cleric worships a deity, they should probably have the same Alignment but it's not mandatory.

Level:	BAB:	Fort	Ref	Will	Special:	Bonus Spells:
1	+0	+2	+0	+2	Deific Smite, Domain, Aura	Remove Fear
2	+1	+3	+0	+3	Deific Boon, Deific Bane	-
3	+2	+3	+1	+3	-	Remove Paralysis
4	+3	+4	+1	+4	Pillar of the Community	Lesser Restoration
5	+3	+4	+1	+4	-	Remove Curse
6	+4	+5	+2	+5	Domain	Remove Disease
7	+5	+5	+2	+5	-	Neutralise Poison
8	+6	+6	+2	+6	Limitless Wonder	Restoration
9	+6	+6	+3	+6	-	Raise Dead
10	+7	+7	+3	+7	Temple Builder	Break Enchantment
11	+8	+7	+3	+7	Domain	-
12	+9	+8	+4	+8	Deific Healing	-
13	+9	+8	+4	+8	Temple Improvements	Resurrection
14	+10	+9	+4	+9	Unswerving Faith	Greater Restoration
15	+11	+9	+5	+9	Supremely Faithful	-
16	+12	+10	+5	+10	Domain	-
17	+12	+10	+5	+10	-	True Resurrection
18	+13	+11	+6	+11	Overwhelming Faith	-
19	+14	+11	+6	+11	Establish Holy City	Miracle
20	+15	+12	+6	+12	Ascension	-

Spells per Day:

Caster Level:	Orisons	I	II	III	IV	V	VI	VII	VIII	IX
1	3	1	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
2	4	2	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
3	4	2	1	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
4	5	3	2	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
5	5	3	2	1	-	-	-	-	-	-
6	5	3	3	2	-	-	-	-	-	-
7	6	4	3	2	1	-	-	-	-	-
8	6	4	3	3	2	-	-	-	-	-
9	X	4	4	3	2	1	-	-	-	-
10	X	4	4	3	3	1	-	-	-	-
11	X	5	4	4	3	2	1	-	-	-
12	X	5	4	4	3	2	2	-	-	-
13	X	5	5	4	4	3	2	1	-	-
14	X	X	5	4	4	3	3	2	-	-
15	X	X	5	5	4	3	3	2	1	-
16	X	X	5	5	4	4	3	3	2	-
17	X	X	5	5	5	4	4	3	2	1
18	X	X	X	5	5	4	4	3	3	2
19	X	X	X	5	5	4	4	4	3	3
20	X	X	X	5	5	5	4	4	4	4

Proficiencies: Simple Weapons and the Favoured Weapon(s) of their religion. If the Favoured Weapon is an unarmed or natural attack, gain Fists of Steel as a bonus feat. If a Cleric of a specific race (or a god who is specifically concerned with that race), they also gain proficiency with any exotic weapons considered martial as a result of Weapon Familiarity. Additionally, all Clerics select one of the following:

• Clerics of war or offence: Light, Medium and Heavy Armour and all Martial Weapons, but no shields.
• Clerics focused on protection: Light, Medium and Heavy Armour, all Shields, and the Halberd and Glaive.
• Scholarly/pacifist Clerics: no additional proficiencies, but instead gain Armoured in Life as a Monk of equal level.

Spellcasting: the Cleric casts Divine Spells, based entirely on his Wisdom, and must prepare them at the beginning of the day. He knows all Orisons, and three Cleric spells (from any source) he is high enough level to cast per class level, plus those gained from Domains. Clerics are often faced with terrible afflictions they must deal with, so all Clerics also learn the following spells at the listed levels: Break Enchantment, Miracle, Neutralise Poison, Raise Dead, Remove Curse, Remove Disease, Remove Fear, Remove Paralysis, Restoration (including Lesser and Greater), Resurrection, True Resurrection.

Domains: every Cleric gains access to a single Domain at level one, and gains another every five levels thereafter. A Domain adds additional spells known (which can be prepared and cast as normal, not having their own Domain slots), but Domain Powers are no longer used. With Mister Cavern's permission, Spheres may be used as Domains(ignoring the "19 hit dice" spell and the Sphere Power, the other spells going up in order from 1st to 9th level).

Aura (Ex): whatever the Cleric's alignment is, they detect strongly of that.

Deific Smite (Su): when all else fails, the Cleric can channel the might of his belief, turning passion and faith into a ray that is hurled at enemies. This requires a Standard Action, and allows him to make a Ranged Touch Attack out to Medium Range. This is not a mighty power, but can be used when he does not wish to use spells or weapons. The specific effect is chosen at first level and cannot be changed thereafter:

• The target, if hit, suffers non-lethal damage equal to the Cleric's Charisma Bonus, and is Shaken for one round. This is a [Fear] effect.
• The target, if hit, suffers damage equal to 1d8 plus the Cleric's hit dice plus the Cleric's Charisma Bonus. This damage is either Fire, Cold, Acid, Electricity or Sonic, and must be chosen when the ability is gained.
• The target, if hit, suffers untyped damage equal to 1d6 plus the Cleric's Charisma Bonus, and suffers it again on the following turn as ongoing damage. This is a [Poison] effect.
• The target, if hit, suffers a -2 Penalty on attack rolls, damage rolls and saving throws for one minute. This is a [Morale] effect.
• The target, if hit, is Staggered for one round. This is a [Pain] effect.
• The target, if hit, is Confused for a number of rounds equal to the Cleric's Charisma Bonus. This is a [Mind-Affecting] effect.

Deific Boon (Su): at level two, the Cleric gains the ability to bless people. This can be performed at will, but can only affect one person at a time and requires a Standard Action to use. The target must be within Close Range, and gains a benefit for one minute per level (or until the Cleric blesses someone else). The benefit must be chosen when this ability is gained:

• One ability score (chosen when this is gained) gains an Enhancement Bonus equal to 1/3 the Cleric's hit dice (round up).
• The target gains a Deflection Bonus to AC equal to 1/3 the Cleric's hit dice (round up).
• The target gains a Resistance Bonus to Saving Throws equal to 1/3 the Cleric's hit dice (round up).
• The target becomes immune to one of the following (chosen when this is gained): Poison, Disease, Fear, Fatigue, Pain, Confusion, Sleep, Paralysis, Energy Drain
• The subject gains Fast Healing equal to the Cleric's Charisma Bonus.
• The subject gains Resistance against one energy type (chosen when this is gained) equal to triple the Cleric's level.

Deific Bane (Su): the second level Cleric can also cause afflictions to people he doesn't like. Again, this requires a Standard Action, targeting someone within Close Range, and lasts for one minute per level or until someone else has the Bane placed upon them. A Will Save (DC 10 + half his hit dice + his Charisma Bonus) reduces the effect to one round per level but doesn't actually negate it. The specific bane must be chosen when this ability is gained.

• The target takes a Penalty to one Ability Score (chosen when the ability is gained) equal to 1/3 the Cleric's hit dice (round up).
• The target taks a Penalty to Spell Resistance and Damage Reduction equal to 1/3 the Cleric's hit dice (round up).
• The target takes a Penalty to Saving Throws equal to 1/3 the Cleric's hit dice (round up).
• The target takes a Penalty to Armour Class equal to 1/3 the Cleric's hit dice (round up).
• The target is Slowed.
• The target takes a Penalty to attack and damage rolls equal to 1/3 the Cleric's hit dice (round up).

Pillar of the Community (Ex): at level four, the Cleric is typically good at blending into communities and becoming valued within them or at least finding out what's going on. They gain a Competence bonus to Gather Information checks equal to their Charisma Bonus (effectively meaning they add their Charisma Bonus twice), and every time they visit a town for a week or more, may make a Gather Information check as though it were a Perform check to make money - gaining income through being vaguely important.

Limitless Wonder (Sp): at level eight, the Cleric no longer prepares Orisons. Instead, they may cast Orisons as Spell-Like Abilities at will.

Temple Builder (Ex): at level ten, the Cleric is charged with the task of spreading the word and setting up a base of operations. They gain the Landlord Feat and should specifically build a church, temple, cairn or whatever for their faith. This can be left in the hands of followers - on that note, the Cleric gains followers (but not a Cohort) as if he had the Leadership Feat, gaining the bonus for a permanent base of operations.

Deific Healing (Su): at level twelve, the Cleric is so passionate about his faith that he tends to get healed when he most needs it. He has Fast Healing 1, but whenever he has fewer than half his maximum hit points, it increases by an amount equal to his Charisma Bonus.

Temple Improvements (Ex): at level thirteen, the Cleric has to make the temple even better. He gets another hundred thousand GP for the sole purpose of making the temple bigger and better and more impressive, covering more ground etc. Only 10% of this can be spent on traps, weaponry and guards (though you could spend as much as you like to establish housing to fill it with guards you hire using your own money or whatever). The entire area becomes subject to your choice of one of the following effects: Hallow, Sanctuary, Unhallow, Zone of Truth. Alternatively your MC could allow a specific other spell of similar level and effect that is appropriate for your faith.

Unswerving Faith (Sp): at level fourteen, the Cleric no longer prepares First Level Spells. Instead, they may cast them as Spell-Like Abilities at will (still only selecting from those personally known).

Supremely Faithful (Su): at level fifteen, the Cleric's Deific Boon and Deific Bane can affect any number of people at a time, it's limited only by the duration. Furthermore, he can actually target a number of people equal to his Charisma Bonus with each usage.

Overwhelming Faith (Sp): at level eighteen, the Cleric no longer prepares Second Level Spells. Instead, they may cast them as Spell-Like Abilities at will (still only selecting from those personally known).

Establish Holy City (Ex): at level nineteen, the Cleric has to make the temple even more amazing. He gets one million GP to expand it. Again, only up to 10% can be spent on defences, and at least 50% must be spent on expanding the area and housing more people. The magical effect that covers the temple will automatically expand to cover the whole town. At this point, the number of followers of each level is multiplied by 10 as they flock to the holy city.

Ascension (Ex): at level 20, the Cleric has become effectively perfect, and mastered his beliefs. He can never be denied his spell casting and Domain powers, whether by evil weather or even his god (if he worships one) trying to revoke all powers. Even if the source of his power was destroyed, he would still have his power. At this point, the Cleric effectively worships himself, even if he doesn't actually do so. He should choose whether to actually go and become a God (gaining Divine Rank 5 and being barred from Material Planes, forced to do Godly stuff), join his own deity forever (as a Divine Rank 1 deity, also barred from entry) or just wander around being powerful as a normal high level adventurer.

[Red_Rob]

Maybe it's just me but 2 skill points for a class that dumps Int seems overly restrictive.

[Koumei]

I dunno - part of me says "Tell that to the core cleric. Also the sorcerer, the fighter, the paladin..."

And I retained their whole "I don't do Dex, heavy armour is mandatory" thing even though my kind of cleric would personally be a near-nude whip-wielding ninja priestess of Loviatar or Lolth or Eilistrae or the Chaotic Good Beauty Goddess of Faerun. Really, the core Cleric didn't happen to cater to that narrow field of characters, so I'm not making this one do it just because I'd like it, I imagine most people want their Clerics to be of Kord or "The Concept of Steel and Face-Breaking" or whatever, clad in steel.

So I'm reluctant to give them the extra stuff "just because it shores up something they're lacking in and it'd be nice". But I dunno, I mean, 4+Int skill points (so, 5 because you're a human with Int 10) isn't going to break the game.

[Red_Rob]

Perhaps I should clarify; I don't think any class should get 2 skill points, although I can kind of see an argument for Int focussed classes. Skill points simply determine the number of skills you can keep level appropriate. Because skills are so weak giving a few more doesn't really make the character more powerful, just more interesting to play.

Regarding your list, I think it's telling that the Tome Fighter gets 6 skill points and the Tome Paladin gets 4.

[Koumei]

Yeah, fair enough, I'll give 'em 4+.

Also, I know any proper evaluation of the class depends on how awesome the Domain powers end up, so I'll state that I want them to be "decent-ish" but not (usually) as good as casting your actual spells. So Sun will be able to use a Domain Power Use to make a TurnDestroy Undead attempt (likewise Undeath will be able to use it to RebukeControl Undead), and Spider will have Spidershape and stuff like that.

[OgreBattle]

Isnt there a tome feat for the light/unarmored character concept? So being a bondage nun of lolth is possible

[Koumei]

Yeah, I made it. And that's basically the way to do it - use a Feat to fight in a way you normally aren't meant to, to change your fighting style.

For plenty of the Domain Powers, for the record, I'm going to be at a loss. I'm also tempted to roll a bunch together (for the purpose of their Powers - you still choose whether you want Spell or Magic for the actual spells offered, but they both have the same Power. Likewise for Craft/Artifice, Pain/Suffering, and probably a bunch more).

[8headeddragon]

Not a bad start. More skill points is a nice touch, plus one of my thoughts when I first experienced D&D 3e was touched upon. "Why are all the clerics wearing more armor than the actual fighters?" It looks like domains are going to be a problem, but probably a decent number of the original domain benefits can be carried over and balanced against each other.

[Koumei]

A reasonable number - all Domain Powers are going to be things that you spend a point to do, not just added Class Skills or a Bonus Feat. And in many cases I went "I could just give them a Spell-Like Ability of- wait, no, that's a Domain Spell, that'd be kind of redundant".

But yeah, the problem will be thinking up decent powers for enough of them and making sure they're all more-or-less balanced with each other. Also, given they know fewer spells and don't get Domain Slots, I'm not sure I need to use the reduced spells per day (which I copy-pasted from the Sacred Fist, which was specifically supposed to have fewer spell slots). Should I make it the same as the original Cleric (minus Domain Slots)?

[...You Lost Me]

There is no DMM Persist... I am very sad.

[Chamomile]

That domain list is gigantic. Where does it come from? Is there a version that says where I can actually find the domains mentioned?

[Koumei]

You can find most in the PHB + Spell Compendium. For the most part I looked through CDivine, BoVD, BoED and Player's Guide to Faerun, and remembered a couple of other random ones.

[8headeddragon]

I'm not sure it matters a whole lot whether they get the greater or reduced spellcasting, considering they either have access to the the spells that make everyone at the table sad like Divine Insight and Shivering Touch, or they don't. I'm tempted to lean towards having more spells mostly because whenever I played a cleric I found myself hurting for spells I'd already cast (simple things like Lesser Restoration or Close Wound), compared to the rich abundance some of the newer spontaneous caster classes got, casting forever and ever with more spells to spare.

[Koumei]

I gave them the regular (minus the bonus Domain slot) Cleric casting.

Also, I'm fully aware that the Save DCs of Domain Abilities aren't going to be so great because Charisma is secondary to Wisdom (if they want to do the Strength and Constitution thing, they'll probably be taking Domains that don't offer "enemy attempts Save" powers). That's why said powers are "and now you lose" if they work.

Currently still has all armour and shields, but I'm okay with dropping that to "Simple Weapons, Light and Medium Armour, Shields (but not Great/Tower Shields), and the Favoured Weapon(s) of your religion. If you take the War Domain, you also gain Proficiency with Heavy Armour and Great/Tower Shields". I mean, that might be good to help tell one Cleric apart from another, but Clerics *do* have traction as being tinned meat, more heavily armoured than most Full BAB characters.

[Koumei]

Totally accepting suggestions for domain powers. I have a bunch done, but this game has like a million of the fucking things and I have only so much thought power.

[Cynic]

So I've been awake for two days straight now and I can't think straight. How is this Cleric not powerful compared to most of the other classes out there. I mean tome characters seem to barely match it at times.

[Koumei]

The starting point is they don't just have all the spells. They have the ones Clerics have to have, a few (of varying use) from their Domains, and then a small selection of their favourites - I'm not adding notes on specific spells being banned or whatever, if there are specific spells that rustle your jimmies, then you ban them as MC or whatever.

The Domain powers are specifically designed to be better than domain powers usually are (add a class skill!), but not totally amazing - SoDs that aren't based on your casting stat, buffs of varying utility, whatever. And so you can say I'M USING MY DOMAIN.

The other class features are there to be "not that important", just to put things in the Special column.

[Koumei]

So an update:
I ditched the Domain Powers thing entirely. The Domains exist just to grant extra spells known. However, the Cleric gets a few abilities to help spare spell-usage a little: a fairly weak attack that works decently at low levels and you don't really care about at high levels, and a buff and debuff at low levels that scales and can eventually be multi-target.

Also I changed the proficiencies a bit. It's fairly generous, but whatever.

[Nachtigallerator]

Is this class meant for use with ordinary domains, sans power? I think that would work, but from my understanding of domains, there is a vast difference in usefulness between the spells granted. I've seen a few efforts to reorganize them - any pointers on which domains are good to use with this class?

[Koumei]

Yeah, it's designed for use with regular Domains. I am fully aware that they're not internally balanced as such, but I have no plans to go through and literally change each and every one.

That said, "pick the ones that give you spells you'd be picking anyway, or that give you spells from other class lists". And people should generally be okay with making their own thematic domains, by chatting with Mister Cavern and making sure it's not completely broken.