The Gaming Den

So I'm making a 3.5-influenced fantasy heartbreaker (yeah, yeah, I know), and I've hit a bit of a snag in defining my class selection.

Firstly, while I do want to have a class to represent characters like Conan, Lu Bu or Benedict of Amber, i.e martial types who don't have the trappings of the Paladin or Ranger, I don't want to have a "fighter"-class, because no matter how you design it, calling a class "fighter" (or "warrior", "martial artist" et al) sets you up for two serious design mistakes:

1. It implies that the class is actually better at fighting than other classes, in a general sense, when D&D and all games of its ilk require everyone to make a contribution in combat, the distinction being in how they do so.

2. It tells you nothing at all about what the class does outside of combat, and pretty strongly implies that the answer is "nothing of any real significance", which is also untenable in a class-based system.

So, what would be a good name? "Warlord" was my first thought, but calling a first-level itinerant do-gooder a "Warlord" seems absurd. "Hero" is far too generic. "Champion" is pretty generic too, and (to me at least) it evokes the paladin more than the fighter anyway. Currently I'm on "Knight", because that seems to be the best translation of "Youxia", which is basically the archetype I'm after, but most people's associate the word "Knight" pretty heavily with the whole cavalier-thing, which is possible to do with this class, but wholly optional.

Secondly, and less importantly, I'm dissatisfied with the name "Rogue".
It's far too widely applicable to be a good class name -kind of like "fighter" or "hero" in that way; a Rogue doesn't have to be a rogue and a rogue doesn't have to be a Rogue. The problem is that all the alternatives I can think of (Thief, Assassin, Swashbuckler...) are far too spesific. Now, the "Rogue" as a concept isn't going to get off unscathed anyway, because the concept of a "skill-based" class is really destructive to the competence and roundedness of all the classes that aren't "skill-based", but "guy who makes his way by being underhanded and tricksy" is a concept that I think you can build a class around. So what do I call that class?

Is the class actually going to be just a fighting class?

If so, I don't quite understand avoiding calling the class what it is; the fighting class. Worrying about transparency rather than substance seems inconsistent.

If the class is not just a fighting class, then call it what it is.

So the question is: Just what the hell is this class actually going to do?

Badass. Your Conan/Lu Bu equivilant should be called the Badass.

"Scoundrel" could work for the rogue replacement.

As for the fighting+skills totally-not-just-a-fighter class, "martial artist" isn't actually a bad name if that indeed is what the class does; that implies mobility, coordination, zen-ness, understanding, and other stuff that could inform out-of-combat capabilities. "Officer" could work if you want to go the warlord route, but that has the same issue as "rogue" in that officer ≠ Officer, and it implies that you're somewhere in a hierarchy instead of being mostly independent like a warlord is.

Saxony wrote:Is the class actually going to be just a fighting class?

If so, I don't quite understand avoiding calling the class what it is; the fighting class. Worrying about transparency rather than substance seems inconsistent.

If the class is not just a fighting class, then call it what it is.

So the question is: Just what the hell is this class actually going to do?

I second that. Tell us how you fixed the fighter, then we´ll suggest a name that fits.

My heartbreaker notes may help you:

Base classes:
Bard (bard + sorcerer)
Crusader (cleric + paladin, alignment restrictions as cleric, summons extrplaner ally, smite alignment triggers on damage rolls for +1d6 damage every odd level)
Knave (fighter + rogue)
Ranger (druid + ranger, no wildshape, get animal polymorph)
Wizard (wizard)

No penalty to iterative attack rolls

Full attack as a standard action.

Unify spells/day to same spells/day chart (use wizard).

Fix open multiclassing by [sell soul body children for answer]

Commoners get racial hit dice.

Hit dice = Challenge Rating = Caster Level, no exceptions.

No negative ability modifiers. Ability scores are now 3d6; modifier is score / 6 round down, max of 18.

Size adds a static bonus to HP.

Rewrite all the monsters.

Final Destination.

---

Seriously, conan and co. were described as thieves with good swordsmanship. Let them be straight geshalted fighter/rogues who trick others and reality by fighting unfairly with sneak attack and use magic device.

, but "guy who makes his way by being underhanded and tricksy" is a concept that I think you can build a class around. So what do I call that class?

Call your rogue the Hunter.
Hunters are men who use skill and subterfuge to snag their prey, be it treasure, bounties, beasts, or more esoteric ideas.
Being a treasure hunter, bounty hunter, or beast hunter all implies you have expertise in skills such as wilderness survival, tracking, investigation, thievery, and so on.




On your fightguy though, how many classes do you plan on having whose shtick is "fights using weapons?"

If it's only "sneakguy" and "fightguy", then Hunter and Warrior is already enough of a distinction, hunters sneak and stalk while warriors duel and and war.

Soldier.

Game On,
fbmf

Some various fight-gar type synomnyms and related words:

Action Hero
Archer
Armyman
Axeman
Badass
Battle Maiden
Belligerent
Black Belt
Blade Master
Blade of _____
Blitzer / Blitzkrieger
Berserker
Bombardier
Boxer
Brawler
Cannoneer
Captain
Cavalryman / Cavalier
Challenger
Champion / Champion of ______
Commander
Commando
Contender
Conscript
Crusader
Defender / Defender of ____
Destroyer
Dragoon
Dreadnaught
Drillmaster
Drunken Master
Duelist
Edgemaster
Enforcer
Ex-Cop / Ex-Special Forces/ Ex-<anything else on this list>
Executioner
Exempler
Fencer
Fist of ______
GI
Gladiator
Guard / Guardian / Guardsman
Guerrilla
Gunman / Gunslinger
____ Guy
Heavy
Hero / Hero of ___
Hordesman
Hulking Swordsman / Axeman / Hurler, etc
Infantryman
Invader
Jock
____ Jockey
Jouster
Juggernaut
Kensai
Killer
Knight
Linebacker
Luchadore
Lumberjack
Marine
Master / Masetro / Meister ________
Martial Artist
Mercenary
Militant
Militiaman
Minuteman
Monk
Night Watchman
Nobleman
Officer
Offensive Lineman
Paladin
Pankrator
Patriot
Pikeman
Pugilist
Punchy / Punchmaster
Quarreler
Raider
Ranger
Ravager
Ronin
Rumbler
Samurai
Sapper
Sargent
Scrapper
Security / Security man/guard/police/enforcement, etc
Sensai / Sifu
Shock Trooper
Serviceman / woman
Soldier / Solider-at-arms
Spearman
Special Forces
Strategist / Strategos
Storm Trooper
Superhero
Swashbuckler
Sword Saint
Tactician
Thug
Tough Guy
Trooper
Troublemaker / Troubleshooter
Uniformed _____
Veteran
Warlord
Warmaster
Warrior
Warrior-monk / warrior-nun
Weaponmaster / Weaponsmaster
Wildcat
Wrestler

Generic names like "Hunter" or "Soldier" cause unnecessary namespace collisions, IMO; they're just too common in ordinary language to assign a technical meaning to them.

As discussed many times here, Conan doesn't actually come with a high level concept version. While he is conceptualized as the baddest man alive, he isn't conceptualized as being badder than someone who is "wizard tier", which is an actual thing that actually exists in his world. There is a tier of power with actual motherfuckin wizards in it, and Conan is specifically below that tier. So I'm pretty sure you are doomed if you're going to try to make a Conanesque class unless it ends like a d20 Modern class and forces you to go out and get a real class with conceptual legs.

That being said, as saxony and rasmuswagner pointed out on this thread: we can't provide a name for a class whose concept we don't know. it's just not even fucking possible.

As for trickster characters, have you considered the name "Trickster"? If they are set up like a D&D Thief, then "Scout" is fairly appropriate as that is what they are actually expected to do.

-Username17

Guy who beats people to death for a living and profit.

if that class name is too long, how about Myrmidon? Brawler, Thug? Mercenary?

You could just do what D&D does: _____Blade.

Roll a d20 on it.

d20 roll	_____
1	Soul
2	Mage
3	Rage
4	Death
5	Dark
6	Night
7	Bone
8	Sword
9	Blade
10	Sun
11	Dusk
12	Hex
13	Life
14	Blue
15	edalB
16	Ghost
17	Wraith
18	Cock
19	Mind
20	Blunt

Now I want a Cockblade class.

Gladiator is cool

Koumei wrote:

d20 roll	_____
1	Soul
2	Mage
3	Rage
4	Death
5	Dark
6	Night
7	Bone
8	Sword
9	Blade
10	Sun
11	Dusk
12	Hex
13	Life
14	Blue
15	edalB
16	Ghost
17	Wraith
18	Cock
19	Mind
20	Blunt

roll twice on list to create class name. I got...

http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/3947214/


NIGHT COCK


YES

If you wanted to cover all variety of classes, you'd want separate charts.

d20 roll	First Bit	Second Bit
1	Soul	Blade
2	Mage	Sword
3	Rage	Lurk
4	Death	Stalker
5	Dark	Mage
6	Night	Warrior
7	Bone	Thief
8	Sword	Priest
9	Blade	Cock
10	Sun	Caster
11	Dusk	Hurler
12	Hex	Master
13	Life	Hunter
14	Blue	Scion
15	Shadow	Crawler
16	Ghost	Adept
17	Wraith	Sage
18	Cock	Witch
19	Mind	Speaker
20	Blunt	Dancer

Mister_Sinister wrote:Now I want a Cockblade class.

+=...

Koumei wrote:If you wanted to cover all variety of classes, you'd want separate charts.

d20 roll	First Bit	Second Bit
1	Soul	Blade
2	Mage	Sword
3	Rage	Lurk
4	Death	Stalker
5	Dark	Mage
6	Night	Warrior
7	Bone	Thief
8	Sword	Priest
9	Blade	Cock
10	Sun	Caster
11	Dusk	Hurler
12	Hex	Master
13	Life	Hunter
14	Blue	Scion
15	Shadow	Crawler
16	Ghost	Adept
17	Wraith	Sage
18	Cock	Witch
19	Mind	Speaker
20	Blunt	Dancer

I stand corrected. I hereby desire a Cock Master, a Cock Scion and a Cock Crawler class.

I would be very careful with what I wish for if I were you. I have that kind of free time.

Koumei wrote:I would be very careful with what I wish for if I were you. I have that kind of free time.

Well, if you have that kind of free time, I'd like a Cock Mage too.

Please Koumei, your talents are needed elsewhere. Mister Sinster, your desires already exist here.

My votes would be any of the following: Bone Cock, Blunt Cock, Sword Cock/Cock Sword, and Cock Hurler.

Pretty much any Cock class would be awesome though.

EDIT: Forgot Cock Stalker.

Le sigh... Cock Hurler and Death Cock please.

Hicks wrote:Please Koumei, your talents are needed elsewhere. Mister Sinster, your desires already exist here.

Except let's be honest, Koumei would do it better, for two reasons:

1) Her design work is of a superior quality to most published material

2) When it comes to sexual innuendo (or sexual endo), I trust Koumei's talents more than those of a random guy off RPGNet.

So yeah, Koumei, some Cock classes would be appreciated. Specifically all those requested in this thread. Pretty please?

Edit: Thirding the request for the Cock Hurler as well.