The Gaming Den

I'd just let you know that the Exalted 3rd Edition Kickstarter is up.

I'm such a fanboi I subscribed without reading the text.

edit: funded in 18 minutes.

Am I missing something or is the first reward level that actually includes the hardcover book 110 dollars?

I'd totally throw 40-50 bucks at it for a nice looking hardcover, but the 40-50 dollar reward levels seem to be a crapload of PDFs that I don't care about.

Seerow wrote:Am I missing something or is the first reward level that actually includes the hardcover book 110 dollars?

I'd totally throw 40-50 bucks at it for a nice looking hardcover, but the 40-50 dollar reward levels seem to be a crapload of PDFs that I don't care about.

It's a deluxe version. A normal hardcover is being published like usual.

theye1 wrote:

Seerow wrote:Am I missing something or is the first reward level that actually includes the hardcover book 110 dollars?

I'd totally throw 40-50 bucks at it for a nice looking hardcover, but the 40-50 dollar reward levels seem to be a crapload of PDFs that I don't care about.

It's a deluxe version. A normal hardcover is being published like usual.

Yeah, but backers of the kickstarter do not actually get one. Backers at less than the $110 mark don't get one, and backers outside the United States don't get one either because they won't ship overseas (or even to Canada, unless they are very confused about geography).

Also, I have no idea how you know that there will be a "normal hardcover" for this book, because nothing of the sort is mentioned on the kickstarter page. There's the deluxe edition and then there's a pdf. Unless there's another kickstarter somewhere for normal hardcovers, such a thing is not promised or hinted at.

Remember that Onyx Path is actually a PDF Publisher, and not a maker of books in the traditional sense. So "like usual" for them is that there is no hardcover book and nothing goes to stores at all. There's a pdf you can buy from DriveThru, and you can Print-on-Demand that book from DriveThru as well. But Onyx Path is not a book publisher and does not usually make physical books.

-Username17

Yeah, but backers of the kickstarter do not actually get one. Backers at less than the $110 mark don't get one, and backers outside the United States don't get one either because they won't ship overseas (or even to Canada, unless they are very confused about geography).

Yes we do. For a very reasonable price, too.


I meant POD, my mistake, apologies.

No, you get a bullshit special edition for $110. White Wolf's products are the market equivalent of an abusive lover who starts your day out by jizzing in your eye and gives you a goodnight punch in the other.

theye1 wrote:

Seerow wrote:Am I missing something or is the first reward level that actually includes the hardcover book 110 dollars?

I'd totally throw 40-50 bucks at it for a nice looking hardcover, but the 40-50 dollar reward levels seem to be a crapload of PDFs that I don't care about.

It's a deluxe version. A normal hardcover is being published like usual.

Then a normal hardcover should be somewhere on the rewards. Trying to charge 50-100 dollars for a bunch of pdfs is borderline criminal. Those kinds of prices is why piracy is a thing.

Maybe I'm missing something, but are those even going to be PDFs of the new edition? They're "classic" which makes me think they're just reselling old rulebooks. That seems like a very strange way to raise money from people interested in buying a new edition.

Yeah, they're reselling old pdfs for $30+ dollars and their fanboys are thanking them for the privelege.

Those are 1e PDFs, yes.
But, well, it is a Kickstarter. It's more about giving fans stuff they will think is shiny than actual value for money.

And for what it may be worth, Holden Shearer defends the $110 price point for hardcover + PDF thus:

"Keep in mind that a full color PoD hardback of 400+ pages is probably gonna run you $80+ anyway, unless things have changed. (I really don't know if things have changed!)"

I know nothing about PoD, so I don't know how true that is.

Schleiermacher wrote:Those are 1e PDFs, yes.
But, well, it is a Kickstarter.

Holden Shearer defends the $110 price point for hardcover + PDF by saying:

"Keep in mind that a full color PoD hardback of 400+ pages is probably gonna run you $80+ anyway, unless things have changed. (I really don't know if things have changed!)"

I know nothing about PoD, so I don't know how true that is.

Isn't the point of the kickstarter to be able to do an actual print run, rather than printing one at a time, and thus save on printing costs, thus making shit available at a lower price? Economy of scale and all that jazz.


I mean shit. I like the idea of Exalted. I've even looked at some of the books before, thought they were moderately interesting. But I've never bought anything. A new edition coming out is basically the perfect time to get someone like me to pick it up and give it a try. But when your base price point is literally double what I'd pay for a book from anyone else? Yeah, not going to happen.

Yeah... Kickstarter, where companies with money go to remove all risk from publishing whatever they try to sell. Just great. Paying for the privilege to buy a book is just fucking great.

Is this new edition even going to fix any of the problems? I'd be willing to bet money that the answer is no.

But I totally want a new, better Exalted to exist. Complete with boobs every three pages, though preferably with a consistant quality as opposed to half of them being weeaboo shitscribbles, apparently by some high school kid. Chuck in better rules, make the setting a bit less retarded (like factions that can work together, all with their own place and role they're supposed to fill, thematically) and I'd be willing to fork out cash for it.

But there is nothing they can say to me now that would convince me that is actually going to happen.

Kiyo does the best tits. It is known.

EDIT: My friend made a rep for himself by trashing Exalted mechanics; he's not interested in 3e since hatewheel is on the dev team.

Me, I bought in mainly because of the art and because I'm willing to give the team a chance. In 2e we generally avoided the broken shit by consensus, though hopefully we won't have to do that in 3e.

Silent Wayfarer wrote:In 2e we generally avoided the broken shit by consensus, though hopefully we won't have to do that in 3e.

I wish I had an image macro for your optimism/naivety. Something along the lines of laughingsiderealgirls.psd would probably be appropriate.

It's not even broken options that makes the whole thing so sad, though - it's the model where combat turns into pinging each other for minimum damage until you're pretty sure your opponent can't Perfectly Defend, then unleashing the Big Attack Combo to either take them out in one swoop or fail because you misjudged, then get creamed on their next action.

A better Exalted needs to fix that core issue (and preferably the bit where you're expected to divide your "Shiny stuff" pool (Charm choices) between "Bigger numbers in order to succeed" (Excellencies), "Don't get killed" (Iron Ox Body) and "Actually doing cool things" (the rest)). Simply banning people from spending all their points on MOAR ESSENCE and removing a couple of charms that are apparently too good is not actually going to cut it.

Koumei wrote:
I wish I had an image macro for your optimism/naivety. Something along the lines of laughingsiderealgirls.psd would probably be appropriate.

Don't bother, I'm fully aware of the realities of 2e combat. I always twinked for it but the best sessions were when we didn't have any fighting at all.

It's not even broken options that makes the whole thing so sad, though - it's the model where combat turns into pinging each other for minimum damage until you're pretty sure your opponent can't Perfectly Defend, then unleashing the Big Attack Combo to either take them out in one swoop or fail because you misjudged, then get creamed on their next action.

Yep. Boooring.

A better Exalted needs to fix that core issue (and preferably the bit where you're expected to divide your "Shiny stuff" pool (Charm choices) between "Bigger numbers in order to succeed" (Excellencies), "Don't get killed" (Iron Ox Body) and "Actually doing cool things" (the rest)). Simply banning people from spending all their points on MOAR ESSENCE and removing a couple of charms that are apparently too good is not actually going to cut it.

Don't I know it. I'm hoping 3e actually manages to fix the fundamental combat problems. But given that it's backward compatible with 1E it's not too damn likely.

Backwards compatible with the 1E fluff.

I don't actually know a huge amount about the fluff, and what I do know is from 2E. How much worse was it back then?

Silent Wayfearer: aha, you're aware it's just wishful thinking/being hopeful. I can't fault you that.

$30 for a pdf...

Schleiermacher wrote:Backwards compatible with the 1E fluff.

Oh. That's... quite a bit better, actually.

Koumei wrote:I don't actually know a huge amount about the fluff, and what I do know is from 2E. How much worse was it back then?

Back then the world wasn't really filled in and the themes were more toward a land of savage adventure with magitech being closer to magic than tech. Stuff like that. The feel was that you were powerful, but not omnipotent, and with care, skill and daring you could do almost anything you wanted.

The fluff went bad around Sidereals 1E when it turns out OH LOLS SIDS ARE SEKRIT MASTERS OF THE WORLD AND YOUR ALL ARE BITCHES. Elder syndrome, basically. It didn't help that it also inaugurated Sidereal Martial Arts, which were basically elder-only Charms of Fuck You and all the antagonist types had elders who knew those Charms.

Dogbert wrote:$30 for a pdf...

No 30 dollars for a pdf and to support a system you want to see do well.

You know, like most kickstarters.

mikal768 wrote:

Dogbert wrote:$30 for a pdf...

No 30 dollars for a pdf and to support a system you want to see do well.

You know, like most kickstarters.

No. Most Kickstarters involve the people paying $30 getting an actual product. Because you're fronting the people the money to print and ship their product, not just throwing money at them for the fuck of it.

This is literally street begging.

-Username17

FrankTrollman wrote:

mikal768 wrote:

Dogbert wrote:$30 for a pdf...

No 30 dollars for a pdf and to support a system you want to see do well.

You know, like most kickstarters.

No. Most Kickstarters involve the people paying $30 getting an actual product. Because you're fronting the people the money to print and ship their product, not just throwing money at them for the fuck of it.

This is literally street begging.

-Username17

No. It isn't actually. Unless literally means something new these days.
And people paying are getting an actual product. Two actually. As well as their name in the book.

Edit: You just don't start getting the feelies until the 110 level, or, if you want, as an add-on at a lower level, if for example, you don't want the actual deluxe edition book but want the map.

Either way, I like this as a system. It let's them know how many deluxe's to print, with a little bit more for the future, instead of gambling, printing x amount, and then hoping x amount sells, potentially losing money and hurting the company, and thus making it less likely for future content to be published.

Edit 2: In addition, the kickstarter stretch goals are being used to help fund more stuff in both the pdf and regular print books (as well as the deluxe), specifically the commissioning and set up of more artwork, which for exalted is usually a draw.

The thing to remember is that this is mainly for the deluxe edition and extra feelies. The 3e book was coming out regardless. Consider this more like pre-ordering the special limited edition version of an mmorpg rather than just getting the cheaper digital download, or pre-ordering the pdf and some other extras like your name in the book.

Well, the V20 PDF costs $29.99 at DTRPG.

Couldn't find many other core rules, WoTC for instance only sells PDFs of splatbooks, but those are in the region of $16-20, as is stuff like Blue Rose and Mutants and Masterminds.

So $ 30 for a brand new, 400-page core rules PDF... it's stiff, sure, but it's not that crazy, is it?

So are these people arguing in favor of the kickstarter just like stockholm snydrome victims, or actual Exalted reps trying to play a PR game?

Either way it's really sad.

And yes, 30 dollars for a PDF is outrageous, and I don't particularly care what that PDF is of. 30 dollars is nearly what I pay for a hardcover book. If anyone expects me to shell out more than 10 bucks on a PDF they're insane.