Eclipse Phase: alternative rules ?
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Eclipse Phase: alternative rules ?
I find it hard to believe anyone actually plays this game as written, with all the subsystems and complex rules, etc.
Have someone tried to convert it to other system out there ? reading superficially, it seems an Apocalypse World hack could be interesting (have two types of playbooks - one for Egos and other for Morphs) but Im completely sure no one here would ever thought of that.
So, what conversions have you seen ? Or what you guys think could work well ? Savage Worlds ? Risus ?
Have someone tried to convert it to other system out there ? reading superficially, it seems an Apocalypse World hack could be interesting (have two types of playbooks - one for Egos and other for Morphs) but Im completely sure no one here would ever thought of that.
So, what conversions have you seen ? Or what you guys think could work well ? Savage Worlds ? Risus ?
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I've heard that there's an alternate set of char-gen rules (called Transhuman, IIRC) where you spend like 10 points instead of 1000. No idea if the results are balanced with the old method.
Last edited by Ice9 on Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Man, reading the book again I understand why it never catch me before the same way as Transhuman Space or Blue Planet or Alpha Centauri: the shit is too much a kitchen-sink of sci-fyish horrorish ideas. Instead of a strong central vision and core ideas, its like they tried to stuff every trope they found cool through the same hole - singularty, aliens, men in black, AIs, nanoviruses, big brothers, etc. Even cthulhu and stargate-like trips! The result is a soup of threats that do not fit each other well nor form a coherent whole.
The funny thing is that I really like the premise on a macro level: a secret organization of transhuman survivals fighting to keep the remaining species alive from some threat, in mid of some really radical futuristic society models. But when I get to the micro-level, the actual implementation of the overarching premise, man what a disappointment. I feel sad even, for such a wasted opportunity. If I run the game someday, I will get just some bits of the setting and ignore all the rest.
The funny thing is that I really like the premise on a macro level: a secret organization of transhuman survivals fighting to keep the remaining species alive from some threat, in mid of some really radical futuristic society models. But when I get to the micro-level, the actual implementation of the overarching premise, man what a disappointment. I feel sad even, for such a wasted opportunity. If I run the game someday, I will get just some bits of the setting and ignore all the rest.
Last edited by silva on Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Well, Eclipse Phase posits a lot of weird and highly divergent future societies in different parts of the solar system. Scandinavian Space-Communism, Barsoomian techno-fascism, Venusian hyper-corporate oligopic oligarchy, and so on. The pontification of what those future economic and social systems are like is not particularly in-depth or well thought out, but the focus of the game is supposed to be playing Stormwatch and fighting existential threats. So the futuristic societies are just a back drop to be interacted with as much or as little as you want. And the relative goodness of each of the systems is supposed to be left purposefully up in the air so as to allow fans of different economic and political philosophies to declare their favorite systems to be the best.Laertes wrote:Anarcho-capitalism isn't my scene, and glibertarians aggravate me. If you're going to quote Hayek, at least read him.What do you mean specifically ? Care to elaborate ?
My problem with it is demographics and time frame. Because what they actually did was to have a super duper majority of people be recently displaced people from Earth. Which means that your Scandinavian space commune isn't even a plurality on the moon it supposedly owns. So all of those experimental future societies actually don't mean shit - the only socially important force anywhere is the Earth Refugee Authority.
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So, to rephrase, all the interesting parts of science fiction are merely an ill-thought-out backdrop to the true task of killing orcs? Ugh.Frank Trollman wrote:Well, Eclipse Phase posits a lot of weird and highly divergent future societies in different parts of the solar system. Scandinavian Space-Communism, Barsoomian techno-fascism, Venusian hyper-corporate oligopic oligarchy, and so on. The pontification of what those future economic and social systems are like is not particularly in-depth or well thought out, but the focus of the game is supposed to be playing Stormwatch and fighting existential threats. So the futuristic societies are just a back drop to be interacted with as much or as little as you want. And the relative goodness of each of the systems is supposed to be left purposefully up in the air so as to allow fans of different economic and political philosophies to declare their favorite systems to be the best.
My problem with it is demographics and time frame. Because what they actually did was to have a super duper majority of people be recently displaced people from Earth. Which means that your Scandinavian space commune isn't even a plurality on the moon it supposedly owns. So all of those experimental future societies actually don't mean shit - the only socially important force anywhere is the Earth Refugee Authority.
Examining my own reactions to this is interesting: I am turned off more by bad worldbuilding than by bad politics. Which is weird because bad politics hurts actual people and bad worldbuilding only hurts your readers.
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Not exactly, no. The true task is supposed to be investigating doomsday cultists or stopping the spread of memetic plagues or uncovering nanite conspiracies and shit. It's a combat light, investigation heavy game where people die a lot and get respawned from old memory forks. It's very explicitly Call of Cthulhu meets Paranoia in space. Orc fighting doesn't really enter into it.Laertes wrote:
So, to rephrase, all the interesting parts of science fiction are merely an ill-thought-out backdrop to the true task of killing orcs? Ugh.
Examining my own reactions to this is interesting: I am turned off more by bad worldbuilding than by bad politics. Which is weird because bad politics hurts actual people and bad worldbuilding only hurts your readers.
As for the future politics, the Eclipse Phase team is intentionally ambiguous about what the "best" future society is, because they don't want to alienate fans who subscribe to various sundry social, political, and futurist movements. Except for MRAs, because honestly fuck those guys.
I did an Eclipse Phase Review, and I'm pretty harsh on a lot of it. But I don't think your complaints are at all fair.
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This single line has me more interested in Eclipse Phase than anything else I've read about it. I am simple folk.FrankTrollman wrote: It's very explicitly Call of Cthulhu meets Paranoia in space.
Question: Is the version of the game that got dumped online for free, ages ago when they thought they were going out of business, significantly different to the game now?
Last edited by DEBO on Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:31 am, edited 3 times in total.
Except its also Stargate and Aliens and X-Files and Terminator and Matrix and Total Recall and... well, you got it. Its an absurd mish-mash of tropes of all types and flavors resulting in a convoluted setting in a convoluted system. The only neat thing about it is the concept of resleeving, but its so awful in practice I dont think it redeems the whole mess that is the rest of the game.It's very explicitly Call of Cthulhu meets Paranoia in space.
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What are you talking about here? The game is licensed under Creative Commons and you can literally download the latest version from their website for free. In fact, the lead designer just posted on his blog that he'd updated all the links for people to do just that. Those links include updating the core rulebook to the 4th printing, which is the most recent. It also includes the book...and some of the stretch goals...that were written as a result of their recent Kickstarter.DEBO wrote:Question: Is the version of the game that got dumped online for free, ages ago when they thought they were going out of business, significantly different to the game now?
AFAIK, the Posthuman guys have been pretty good about making sure that the vast majority of their stuff was freely available online since day one. And that's been kept reasonably up to date through the present.
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The answer to your perhaps more integral question is whether the system is substantively changed from what it was when I did my review, and the answer is apparently "yes." Also, it's imperative that you ignore every single thing that silva says on this or any other subject because he's an idiot, a liar, and a troll.
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Seeing that your opinion about the game on your review thread is so similar to mine, so it must mean we both are idiots, liars and trolls , right ?FrankTrollman wrote:Also, it's imperative that you ignore every single thing that silva says on this or any other subject because he's an idiot, a liar, and a troll.
That isn't at all a logical or rational conclusion to make.silva wrote:Seeing that your opinion about the game on your review thread is so similar to mine, so it must mean we both are idiots, liars and trolls , right ?FrankTrollman wrote:Also, it's imperative that you ignore every single thing that silva says on this or any other subject because he's an idiot, a liar, and a troll.
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No. If you can't trust what someone says, that doesn't mean the opposite is always true.silva wrote:Seeing that your opinion about the game on your review thread is so similar to mine, so it must mean we both are idiots, liars and trolls , right ?FrankTrollman wrote:Also, it's imperative that you ignore every single thing that silva says on this or any other subject because he's an idiot, a liar, and a troll.
It just means whatever you state (no matter if it is correct or not) is not reliable.
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They just added Stalker to the soup:
http://eclipsephase.com/zone-stalkers-e ... ealignment
(this one looks interesting thought, at least to a huge Stalker fan like me )
http://eclipsephase.com/zone-stalkers-e ... ealignment
(this one looks interesting thought, at least to a huge Stalker fan like me )
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Gotta say, that post they made against the MRA fans was pretty well stated.
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nockermensch wrote:Advantage will lead to dicepools in D&D. Remember, you read this here first!
I was under the impression that back in 2012 sometime PostHuman shut down and put everything online for free (as that is what I was told by the person who sent me the links to download it) and that the kickstarter represented a reopening/rerelease. I didn't realise it was creative commons, my mistake. Apologies for the confusion, and thanks for the clarification.JesterZero wrote: What are you talking about here?
Thanks. Your review being for the version I have works out well.FrankTrollman wrote:The answer to your perhaps more integral question is whether the system is substantively changed from what it was when I did my review, and the answer is apparently "yes." Also, it's imperative that you ignore every single thing that silva says on this or any other subject because he's an idiot, a liar, and a troll.
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How much messed the setting would get if I state the Fall happened a hundred years ago or so and nobody knows what really caused it, except it was related to things like nuke wars, environmental disasters, nanoplagues, social unrest and riots, etc ? (rogue AIs could be a factor too, I just don’t like how they implemented it in the form of the “TITANS” ).
In other words: how much damage would I do to the remaining setting if I stripped it of TITANS and FACTORS and shit, and just focused on a cell of covert operatives fighting existential threats in mid of radical futuristic orbital transhuman societies ? (I really like the political blocs and ideologies like Jovian Republic and Argonauts and Barsoomians, etc).
In other words: how much damage would I do to the remaining setting if I stripped it of TITANS and FACTORS and shit, and just focused on a cell of covert operatives fighting existential threats in mid of radical futuristic orbital transhuman societies ? (I really like the political blocs and ideologies like Jovian Republic and Argonauts and Barsoomians, etc).
You should have seen how some on /tg/ reacted to it - it was embarrassing.codeGlaze wrote:Gotta say, that post they made against the MRA fans was pretty well stated.
At any rate, GURPS Transhuman Space has almost everything Eclipse Phase does. Cortical Stacks, a few of the various 'shells, the spacemagic, and more sophisticated nanotech are the only differences I can think of - and nothing there should be difficult to add.
The setting isn't important here as you're wanting to use the Eclipse Phase one, but it's a very nicely thought-out hard scifi future* with a lot of care put into the background details.
It doesn't waste page count on a Matrix either, but I'd consider that a plus.
*Though a very optimistic one, with a few places where science proved them wrong, and a ridiculously fast terraforming of Mars.