What kind of creature does this look like to you?

shadzar · Post by **shadzar** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:54 am

Wiseman · Post by **Wiseman** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:19 am

Goblins?

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:40 am

Yeah, I would say some feral-ish variety of goblin.

Grek · Post by **Grek** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:49 am

A troupe of orcish midgets.

Nebuchadnezzar · Post by **Nebuchadnezzar** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:01 am

It's meant to be 5e goblins. It's clearly a small humanoid, or arguably fey.

What kind of creature does it look like to you, Shadzar? Do you have some sort of problem with it?

Blasted · Post by **Blasted** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:49 am

I prefer that more fairytalesque goblin to the GW-ified greenskinned tinkerer or maniac that populates pathfinder or a dozen other games.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:08 am

I like tinker maniac goblins, I just hate when goblins are made nothing more than stupid, incompetent schmucks. You know, like 90% of Magic the Gathering.

Orca · Post by **Orca** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:23 am

The scene as a whole is pretty clearly inspired by Peter Jackson's Hobbit movies. They pretty much have to be goblins in context.

Not that I mind this look. I could imagine these guys riding wolves which isn't the case for every version of goblins I've seen.

RadiantPhoenix · Post by **RadiantPhoenix** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:48 am

Prak_Anima wrote:I like tinker maniac goblins, I just hate when goblins are made nothing more than stupid, incompetent schmucks. You know, like 90% of Magic the Gathering.

Goblins being "stupid incompetent schmucks" is tradition! It dates back over half a century!

TiaC · Post by **TiaC** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:18 am

I cannot stand PF goblins. They're just a vehicle for lowbrow humor.

I kinda like MTG's route of creating new goblin subraces for each block.

Laertes · Post by **Laertes** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:10 am

These actually look like scary raider goblins rather than TiaC's "vehicle for lowbrow humour" comedy goblins. This is the sort of goblin who, if you got asked to save a farmer's daughter from them, you would actually consider a real threat to them.

I like this.

TiaC · Post by **TiaC** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:52 am

Laertes wrote:These actually look like scary raider goblins rather than TiaC's "vehicle for lowbrow humour" comedy goblins. This is the sort of goblin who, if you got asked to save a farmer's daughter from them, you would actually consider a real threat to them.

I like this.

I didn't mean to imply that these were a "vehicle for lowbrow humor". In fact, I also quite like them. It's these bastards I can't stand.

Laertes · Post by **Laertes** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 12:39 pm

TiaC: I got what you meant, and I agree. The goblins depicted above are nothing like the goblins you depicted, and this is a good thing.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:19 pm

Apparently the goblin TiaC linked is an adventurer, being weighed down by all the loot he stole (and is trying to simultaneously equip).

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:25 pm

Basically, we're looking at Peter Jackson goblins. I'm basically fine with that, although it's a bit on the "evil races are evil" for modern thought. It's not incompatible with Goblins as a player character race, but it's a step in that direction.

The picture itself is mostly decent enough. The center Goblin with his sword pointing down has something badly wrong with his head. Other than that, I think I'd like them to have heads that were a bit smaller so they looked less like midget wrestlers. But these guys do look like they are about to shout "Rakanishu!" and run at the heroes at high speed. Which is better than a lot of Goblin offerings we've gotten over the years.

-Username17

Fwib · Post by **Fwib** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:14 pm

My first thought was 'they could be Hobgoblins'
Without some obvious scale (although they give me a short and bulky vibe) they could be anything from Small to Large - any of a lot of different monster races. depending on art style.

darkmaster · Post by **darkmaster** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:46 pm

I'm going to say they're about five or six bananas tall actually.

shadzar · Post by **shadzar** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:29 pm

to me they look like a cross between hobbits and gremlins. i just cant figure out what is going on with the elongated heads.

i think this is what the chestburster coming out of John Hurt in Spaceballs turned into, but do they sing Michigan Rag?

something just seems off about them.

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:38 pm

They have elongated and rounded noses, somewhere between a Neanderthal and a sheep. They also have slanty eyes and nostrils.

To me, it looks like they've been deliberately but into the uncanny valley, so they will look disturbingly inhuman, and slightly animalistic.

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:33 pm

I'm a fan of FFXI's goblins, they're merchants and smiths that trade between beastmen, though that's been disrupted by the recent war. They have a nice aesthetic to them with cute porportions but realistic detail to what they wear. They always cover their face with masks.

and a deep dwelling goblin settlement uses genetic engineering to create 'bugbears', which are goblin giants with two brains and four eyes used for manual labor, the two brains let them multitask like two cranes on an assembly line.

shadzar · Post by **shadzar** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:13 pm

fectin wrote:They have elongated and rounded noses, somewhere between a Neanderthal and a sheep. They also have slanty eyes and nostrils.

To me, it looks like they've been deliberately but [put] into the uncanny valley, so they will look disturbingly inhuman, and slightly animalistic.

the buzz elsewhere is getting aways from lanky green because Pathfinder uses it extensively.... not that you know D&D didnt start out with similar. so basically an effort to branding a D&D Goblin(TM).

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:36 pm

AD&D Monster Manual wrote:Goblins range from yellow through dull orange to brick red in skin color. Their eyes are reddish to lemon yellow.

2nd edition AD&D Monster Manual wrote:Goblins have flat faces, broad noses, pointed ears, wide mouths and small, sharp fangs. Their foreheads slope back, and their eyes are usually dull and glazed. They always walk upright, but their arms hang down almost to their knees. Their skin colors range from yellow through any shade of orange to a deep red.

3rd edition D&D wrote:A goblin stands 3 to 3½ feet tall and weigh 40 to 45 pounds. Its eyes are usually dull and glazed, varying in color from red to yellow. A goblin’s skin color ranges from yellow through any shade of orange to a deep red; usually all members of a single tribe are about the same color.

The whole idea of Green Goblins is from Marvel Comics in 1964. But it entered table top RPGs through Warhammer and World of Warcraft. The D&D Goblin is and always has been on a spectrum from yellow to red (Blues being an obvious exception).

-Username17

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:28 pm

Well, there is a 1935 book about Green Goblins, but those are more like elves who wear green, they don't have green skin.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:32 pm

My image of goblins have been permanently fixed by Goblin Market, which is them of vaguely sinister tiny furries with a blatantly obvious sex and sexual assault metaphor.

... don't judge me.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:54 pm

shadzar wrote:to me they look like a cross between hobbits and gremlins. i just cant figure out what is going on with the elongated heads.

i think this is what the chestburster coming out of John Hurt in Spaceballs turned into, but do they sing Michigan Rag?

something just seems off about them.

Honestly, I'm not sure "Hobbit+Gremlin" is a bad way to approach goblin design. I mean... The only differences between gremlin and goblins was the somewhat artificial nature of gremlins and the fact that they were more forces of destruction than rational actors (Brainy Gremlin not withstanding).
...also it now occurs to me to wonder how gremlins reproduce... do they have well-hidden cloaca, or do mogwais lose their genitals in their metamorphosis?

er, I digress.

It probably has a lot to do with the fact that I kind of identify with the maligned, savage but tinkering, world-against-them little buggers, and that I am usually sympathetic to them, but when I draw a goblin, it tends to look like something in this group:

Yes, this is basically goblin Tyler Durden, it's from a Dragon article

this one obviously has a lot more going on than just being a goblin...

So, basically, short, less fragile, green elves, I guess, with ridiculously long ears. The top one is the most recent, and has been drawn since I've kind of subconciously decided that goblins are primarily marked by the exaggerated proportions of their extremities, influenced by WoW just as much as drawings of goblins by a guy with a foot fetish who does a lot of fantasy and softcore art whose best known character is a goblin.

Edit: a drawing from the artist in question:

drawing by Welderface

I also did a pair of drawings kind of experimenting with the idea that goblins evolved from rat-like rodents:
(spoilered for size and anatomical bits)

I'm honestly still not entirely sure what I think of this idea.