What system would you use for Girl Genius?

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:55 am

What it says on the tin.

No practical application; I'm just curious how different folks here would make it work.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:07 am

Probably Mutants and Masterminds with codified "Spark" and "Jaeger" templates, and maybe a template for Clanks, but there don't seem to be a lot of "playable" Clanks from what I've read.

Honestly you're looking at a game where you have "Peons," "Super Soldiers," and "Mad Tinkers," and conflict is solved through Talking (rarely), Fighting (commonly) and Tinkering (Usually). So you need a system that handles combat and inventions well, ad has a passable social system that can amount to "I try to reason with him" "Ok, roll Diplomacy, but you're the Storm King Heir, so he inherently distrusts you, take a -5 penalty."

There are guns, I think, but they're seldom used, swords and Spark lightning canons are a lot more common, so you don't need to worry about sophisticated firearms rules so much as rules for cobbling together a Lightning Canon that will last for a scene and rules for sticking dudes with pointy things.

D&D would work passably, but I don't think you really want a class system for this (though it would work ok with the right classes), so I would go with the point buy system of M&M.

Dogbert · Post by **Dogbert** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:49 am

Spirit of the Century.

The action in GG is more what you'd see in pulp than in an action flick. Other than Zeeta, you'll find no "action heroes" there.

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:12 am

You'd want a gadget-creation system like Dragonmech's.

Guns are technically more common (non-sparks use them more), but they're the equivalent of D&D mundane equipment. The lightning bolt shooters and melta-rays are the +3 and +4 weapons of the setting.

erik · Post by **erik** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:42 am

Munchausen? It seems like a lot of being a spark is just one-upsmanship with your own silly story.

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:36 am

Munchausen, with some kind of action economy system based on filling in panels on pages of the comic book.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:42 am

Is there any particular reason people suggest Munchausen for playing games based on stories other than "fuck man, I don't know. Just use Munchausen and make shit up as you go along?"

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:46 am

It's super duper fun.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:49 am

Fair.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:16 am

Things in Girl Genius mostly don't follow established rules. Characters of the moment bring out monsters and clanks of the moment that have unique abilities. Shrink rays, gravity guns, or just giant killer rabbits of the moment are introduced and then discarded at whim.

Therefore to run Girl Genius you need to have a system with extremely exhaustive effects-based comic book creation systems (obvious choice is HERO), or something where you can introduce whatever story elements you want at a moment's notice (obvious choice is Munchhausen).

-Username17

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:33 am

M&M has a system for invention that would satisfy the first requirement, albeit you may need to give Sparks Super Speed (Invention only)

zeruslord · Post by **zeruslord** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:25 pm

A gadget creation system like Dragonmech's is the last thing I'd want. I really don't want to sit down and figure out how to build a flamethrower from parts, I want to announce that I just whipped up a freeze ray and go to town. Basically, given a half hour of downtime, any major character spark might show up with a gun firing more or less anything that can shred whatever the problem of the moment happens to be, and Dragonmech just doesn't model that.

SotC isn't a bad place to start, but sparks are way overpowered compared to the default assumptions. Basically every spark of any significance has some sort of army, a base of operations, and the ability to pull a technological solution out of his ass for pretty much any scenario except a spark of equal power. You're looking at characters starting out with a half-dozen stunts just to be worth mentioning to Baron Wulfenbach, and if you're talking actual political power, it's more like a dozen. It's not that sparks are out of the game's scope on any one axis, just that they've got as much breadth as the average SotC party.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:20 pm

For the curious:

M&M Invention System wrote:INVENTING
Characters with the necessary Knowledge and Craft skills and the Inventor feat (see page 62) can create inventions, temporary devices. To create an invention, the inventor defines its traits and its total cost in power points. This cost is used for the necessary skill checks, and determines the time required to create the invention. Inventions are subject to the same power level limits as other powers in the campaign.

DESIGN CHECK
First, the inventor must design the invention. This is a Knowledge (technology) skill check. The DC is 10 + the invention’s power point cost. It requires an hour’s work per power point of the invention’s cost. The character can take 10 or 20 on the check. In the latter case, the design process takes 20 times longer (20 hours per power point). You can halve the design time by taking a –5 on the Knowledge check.

Design Check = DC 10 + invention’s point cost

If the check is successful, you have a design for the invention. If the check fails, the design is flawed and you must start over. If the check fails by 10 or more, the character is not aware of the design flaw; the design seems correct, but the invention won’t function (or at least won’t function properly) when it’s used. For this reason, the GM should make the design check secretly and only inform the player whether or not the character appears to have succeeded.

CONSTRUCTION CHECK
Once the design is in-hand, the character can construct the invention. This requires four hours work per power point of the invention’s cost, so an invention costing 10 points takes 40 hours (about a week’s work normally, or working two days straight without rest) to construct. When the construction time is complete, make a Craft skill check, using the Craft specialty appropriate to the invention (generally chemical, electronic, or mechanical). The DC is 10 + the invention’s power point cost. You can’t take 20 on this check, but you can take 10. You can halve the construction time by taking a –5 on the Craft check.

Construction Check = DC 10 + invention’s point cost

Success means the invention is complete and functional. Failure means the invention doesn’t work. Failure by 10 or more may result in a mishap, at the GM’s discretion.

USING THE INVENTION
Once the invention is complete, it is good for use in one encounter, after which it breaks down or runs out of power. If the character wishes to use the invention again, there are two options. The first is to spend the necessary power points to acquire the Device power and make the invention a part of the character’s regular traits; in this case, the new device can be used like any other. The other option is to spend a hero point to get another one-encounter use out of the invention. Each use costs an additional hero point, but doesn’t require any further skill checks. Although it’s possible to prepare certain one-use devices in advance, the GM should carefully enforce the guidelines for having items on-hand (see page 133). If an inventor wants to have a particular previously-constructed invention on-hand during an adventure, the GM should require the player to spend a hero point.

JURY-RIGGING DEVICES
An inventor can choose to spend a hero point to jury-rig a device; ideal for when a particular device is needed right now. When jury-rigging a device, skip the design check and reduce the time of the construction check to one round per power point of the device’s cost, but increases the DC of the Craft check by +5. The inventor makes the Craft check and, if successful, has use of the device for one encounter before it burns out, falls apart, blows up, or otherwise fails. You can’t take 10 or take 20 when jury-rigging an invention, nor can you speed up the process any further by taking a skill check penalty. You can jury-rig an invention again by spending another hero point.

MISHAPS
At the GM’s discretion, failure by 10 or more, or a natural roll of 1, on any required inventing skill check may result in some unexpected side-effect or mishap. Exactly what depends heavily on the invention. Inventing mishaps can become a source of adventure ideas and put the heroes in some difficult situations. They may also be setbacks, suitable for hero point awards (see page 122).

You could then give Sparks Quickness (Invention Only) at like rank 5 (2 points), which would allow them to Design in 1.5 minutes per point and construct in 4.8 minutes per point, meaning a Cold Ray (Blast, Cold, r5) would take 15 minutes to design and 48 minutes to build, half each with a -5 to the checks.

There's also the gadgets power which is just a pool of points you set aside to later pull shit out of your pants as needed.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:13 pm

The Mutants and Masterminds invention power is wrong for sparks in like every single particular. There really isn't an aspect of those rules that is applicable on any level. It has a mad science 'theme' but that is literally as far as it goes. You might as well suggest Operation or Kill Doctor Lucky.

-Username17

RadiantPhoenix · Post by **RadiantPhoenix** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:51 pm

You're starting in the wrong place.

The right first question isn't, "how do we model sparks?", it is, "who are we playing?"

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:21 pm

Good question. Since it's thought experiment anyway, I see 3 tiers (roughly):
- mundanes/minions
- monsters/minor sparks
- major sparks

a solid fit for any would be interesting.

TiaC · Post by **TiaC** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:47 pm

It's somewhat implied that Sparks have increased physical abilities.

Ice9 · Post by **Ice9** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:52 pm

This is one where there's a big difference between "in the world of" and "based on" Girl Genius. Because yes, if you're trying for a game that looks like the comics, people invent pretty much whatever on the spur of the moment, and effect-based or narrative resolution would cover it.

On the other hand, personally speaking, I'd love a game that actually had a robust inventing system, and Girl Genius seems like a good setting for that.

RadiantPhoenix · Post by **RadiantPhoenix** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:16 pm

On further contemplation "who are you?" isn't the correct first question either.

I think the first question should be "what are you doing?"

Then we decide "who are you?"

And only after that do we decide "how do we make that work?"

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:43 pm

Agatha Gets a Bunch of Equipment and Spare Parts:

Agatha, Realizing They Just Need a Horse, Sets to Making a Horse-esque Clank, Madly Monologues:

Agatha Reveals Her New Reindeer Clank, Complete With Lots and Lots of Guns

In M&M terms, basically Sparks get to ignore the Design phase, and then just make what they want. They either have high enough Craft skills to make the Construction check trivial, or they have the Gadgets power with a requirement of spare parts, downtime and tools.

What is the part here that's wrong for Sparks, keeping in mind I also said "or just give them gadgets?"

Mask_De_H · Post by **Mask_De_H** » Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:27 am

Crazy monologues don't take an hour and Agatha didn't pull the reindeer out of her ass or her pocket, is what I'm guessing. You need a suite of abilities that can be jiggered and rejiggered with some down time, as well as the ability to stunt mechanic stuff. If I remember how Gadgets work in M&M, you have to pick the powers when you buy the ability. There's the Alternate Power perk though, which should cut the mustard.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:31 am

That's Devices, Gadgets is the "You're batman, you can pull shit out of your utility belt that has never even been hinted at, like Bat Shark-Repellant"

Also, the "it doesn't take hours" thing is why I suggested giving them Quickness (Invention only)

Dogbert · Post by **Dogbert** » Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:36 am

Just remember that in Clockworkpunk (and "gaslight fantasy" in GG's case), the creation of A.I is handled as trivial and any super-genius can create sentient machines. Don't bang your head against the wall trying to justify robots.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:42 am

It's not like M&M makes a big deal of it either. Gadgets and Invention are totally capable of mimicking the Minions power.

RadiantPhoenix · Post by **RadiantPhoenix** » Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:33 am

You're not telling me what you do in this game.

For the moment, assume the game runs on some sort of MTP, then summarize a sample game session, as you imagine it.