d20 Comics

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:10 am

Figured I'd work on throwing together that Comic Book-based PF book I talked about doing, since I've stretched my layout muscles lately so I feel more comfortable doing more standard book layout.

At the moment, I have:

Two Base Classes- Weather Mage (Storm) and Speedster (Flash)
Five PrCs- Green Queen (Poison Ivy, needs finishing), Hell Rider (Ghost Rider), Hulking Berserker (Hulk), Lantern (Lantern Corps) and Undying Mercenary (Deadpool)
Three Items- Capt. America's Shield, Iron Man's Suit and Mjolnir

I'm looking through comic book tropes on TV Tropes, but I'm also curious what people would want beyond those things in a Comic Book themed supplement? I'd maybe do one more base class at most, preferably indie or agnostic in inspiration, and would like to have some feats at least.

RelentlessImp · Post by **RelentlessImp** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:01 pm

Someone is going to want to be able to play Superman. Another will want to play Darkseid. Or Martian Manhunter. And those are three very iconic comic book figures that you need to be able to emulate.

Post by **fbmf** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:10 pm

RelentlessImp wrote:Someone is going to want to be able to play Superman. Another will want to play Darkseid. Or Martian Manhunter. And those are three very iconic comic book figures that you need to be able to emulate.

This, and also Batman...in the same party as Superman and Wonder Woman.

Game On,
fbmf

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:21 pm

And then you have to look at what era/power-level they are supposed to be.
That varies wildly in some cases. See Superman for example.

radthemad4 · Post by **radthemad4** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:25 pm

How well do other Superhero RPGs handle interparty power discrepancies?

Post by **fbmf** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:31 pm

My only experience is the old DC Heroes game, dimly remembered from 8th grade (1992-ish). IIRC, Batman/Green Arrow/Badass Normal Guys had their powers cranked up to compensate not being able to compete with Wonder Woman/Superman/etc.

For example, if Batman spent a hero point (or whatever it was called) and rolled just right, he could deadlift a small car. In all the decade or so I read BATMAN comics, I never saw that happen in the source material.

Game On,
fbmf

Sakuya Izayoi · Post by **Sakuya Izayoi** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:34 pm

Frank once before suggested a Cape class, that starts out like a Powerpuff GIrl and pokevolves into a kryptonian. Maybe some sort of Crusader system where they have randomly refreshing eyebeams and frost breath and literal drill kicks.

Green Arrow's quiver or Batman's belt could be an item that gives you so many charges of various potion/scroll/wand/magic-ammunition effects, scaling up with skill levels. Or whatever scaling system you had in mind for the Iron Man suit could be applied similarly.

Nebuchadnezzar · Post by **Nebuchadnezzar** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:36 pm

I'd think giving a given character a cosmic purview should only be a matter of a couple of feats, given their often limited utility. The first could, in M&M terms, grant a rank or two shy of Immunity 10 (Life Support) and Movement 1(Space Travel), while the second adds a rank or two to Space Travel and one of several ways to model "Cosmic Awareness". Related to this is a suggestion to not have space travel abilities intrinsic to a Lantern class, so that one could also model construct-based characters such as Marvel's Darkstar.

I could see value in short PrCs/feats based on size changing/being stretchy.

radthemad4 · Post by **radthemad4** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:52 pm

fbmf wrote:My only experience is the old DC Heroes game, dimly remembered from 8th grade (1992-ish). IIRC, Batman/Green Arrow/Badass Normal Guys had their powers cranked up to compensate not being able to compete with Wonder Woman/Superman/etc.

For example, if Batman spent a hero point (or whatever it was called) and rolled just right, he could deadlift a small car. In all the decade or so I read BATMAN comics, I never saw that happen in the source material.

Game On,
fbmf

Well, if players are the same level and the classes are somewhat balanced this could play out similarly and not be an issue. Perhaps an introductory blurb that explains how d20 necessitates that normal humans become superhuman at some point anyway if they keep leveling up, or get tech that lets them keep up with superhumans would help players accept it.

Going with the idea of general 'Cape' classes, Tome classes like Monk and Soulborn seem like good superhero chassis. What if you rejigerred them somewhat, called them stuff like 'Finesse Hero' and 'Powerhouse' (remove the incarnum flavor) and maybe make more Fighting Styles/Soulmelds? (Tome is open source anyway)

Spider-man's web-shooters could be a magic item.

You could do stronger than normal races, e.g. Kryptonians like Koumei handled Space Marines and Battle Sisters in Dungeon Crusade where they have to start off at higher levels and maybe put in some PRCs for them.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:29 pm

@fbmf
Well, he did construct Power-Armor.
And he took Super-Steroids in venom.
Probably the closest to that but not quite.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:43 pm

Justice League Batman seems to contribute by generating a stupidity field to make him the smartest man in the room, and his connections/wealth/paranoia means he has supertech caches everywhere. Otherwise, I think his contribution to a fight scene is ratcheting up his utility belt to 11

Even then, the better incarnations where Batman fights the Justice League, he's more of a guerrilla type.

RelentlessImp · Post by **RelentlessImp** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:49 pm

radthemad4 wrote:How well do other Superhero RPGs handle interparty power discrepancies?

I like how M&M 3E does it - there mostly isn't one. The Power Level sliding scale helps to sell the sort of heroes you get to play as (even if the math doesn't QUITE work out) so everyone is more or less on the same level. It helps that the book recommends communal character creation so everyone's actually on the same page, as well. Basically, the Justice League is running at Power Level 20, Batman and the Joker are warring at Power Level 8 or 10, and the Watchmen are at like Power Level 4 or 6 (except for Dr. Manhattan, who's not even playing and is at Power Level 20 anyways).

The system's not GREAT but it's a good d20 hack, which is damning praise.

TiaC · Post by **TiaC** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:38 pm

Iron Man's suit shouldn't really be an item. It's a class feature of being Tony Stark.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:14 pm

@TiaC: That he builds as a wizard/artificer/gadgeteer.

Ok, so a Cape/Flying Brick is potentially doable. Let's see, that's

Speed
Jumping>Flight
Super Strength
Invulnerability/DR
Laser beams
X-Ray vision
Being a blow hard Blowing hard Super Breath/Freeze Breath
Super Senses

So, at low levels, the class can give super senses (+X to skill checks), Super Leaping (ditto), limited DR that is good enough to be a core class feature, some speed, some super strength, and maybe X ray vision. Then it's all just number increases till mid-level when it gives flight and laser beams and a cold breath weapon.

That's pretty simple, really. Maybe 10 level base class simple.

Now I just need a name, as "Flying Brick" doesn't really work as a class name.

Dogbert · Post by **Dogbert** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:55 pm

All that I can say on the matter is pretty much here:

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Fri Jun 12, 2015 2:45 am

Well, fortunately I'm just giving people the tools to emulate comic book powers in their medieval fantasy game. Amusingly, it's actually ridiculously easy for a high level PF wizard to play Superman by just casting Ant Haul, Bull's Strength, Flight, Resilient Reservoir, Stoneskin, and Frightful Form on themselves. Possibly getting an item of Divine Power instead of casting Frightful Form if they don't want to be 8 feet tall and terrifying.

I wonder, however, if "you may use any spell with 'Detect' in the name except for 'Detect Thoughts' at will" is a bit much for a Cosmic Awareness feat.

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Fri Jun 12, 2015 9:13 am

The moment D&D tries to put Batman and Superman in the same party is the moment it super double implodes hard. Superheroes of vastly different power levels either involve a huge stupid ball dropped on Superman and Batman becomes a level 20 divination wizard.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Fri Jun 12, 2015 9:33 am

Yeah, it's like expecting a reality-warping wizard and a guy who swings a sword to work in the same party together...

Count Arioch the 28th · Fri Jun 12, 2015 9:56 am

I thought Batman's super power was that other super-powered beings around him become idiots?

WPharolin · Post by **WPharolin** » Fri Jun 12, 2015 10:28 am

Batman's superpower is fan wank.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Fri Jun 12, 2015 11:22 am

Batman has a lot of super powers- Being rich/a gadgeteer, aura of dumb, super genius, Power of Fu... For a guy who has no powers, he certainly has them dribbling out of his pants.

tussock · Post by **tussock** » Sat Jun 13, 2015 1:39 pm

Batman is Iron Man.

Iron Man wears an iron suit and is invulnerable and rich and super-clever and knows all science better than everyone and is awesome and shoots plasma and out of the suit the ladies love him long time.

Batman wears a bat suit and is invulnerable and rich and super-clever and knows all science better than everyone and is awesome and throws batarangs and out of the suit the ladies love him long time.

Reed Richards is also the same guy. So are a bunch of the villains, really. Their invulnerability has a hook where they can be captured for dramatic purposes by named villians.

Iron Man took the flight option, Batman took "no guns!" like Mr. Fantastic. You're not allowed both.

hyzmarca · Post by **hyzmarca** » Sat Jun 13, 2015 2:03 pm

TiaC wrote:Iron Man's suit shouldn't really be an item. It's a class feature of being Tony Stark.

Except that sometimes Stark gets really drunk, or paralyzed, or dead, and Jim Rhodes has to put on the suit and replace him.

Hmm. Here's an idea. Items aren't class features, classes are item features. So you become a Wizard by putting on a Wizard Hat.

Sakuya Izayoi · Post by **Sakuya Izayoi** » Sat Jun 13, 2015 3:11 pm

hyzmarca wrote:Hmm. Here's an idea. Items aren't class features, classes are item features. So you become a Wizard by putting on a Wizard Hat.

Some Final Fantasy games work on this principle. Could be fun, if people can get over the lack of internal plebotinum. Or it's like FFTA and you absorb superpowers from your gear over time.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sat Jun 13, 2015 5:07 pm

Tussock wrote:Iron Man took the flight option, Batman took "no guns!" like Mr. Fantastic. You're not allowed both.

Does it hurt being that wrong all the time?

-Username17