Power Words Everywhere

[GnomeWorks]

I never liked that d20 arcane and divine casters worked the same, so I've been differentiating them over the years using a variety of methods. Truenaming from ToM seemed like a good idea when I first read it, but that whole thing is a clusterfuck.

I found this thing, and it seemed solid enough, with a number of rather large caveats. I changed the skill check into a level-based check (because I haven't seen a skill-based casting system for d20 that works and isn't immediately abused), I standardized the DCs for each "spell" level, changed the idiotic "changes to your casting stat aren't retroactive to your absolute limit" rule because it was an accounting nightmare, and got rid of some of the other fiddly rules (like the increase in DC when you use a thing multiple times).

At this point, I've concluded that I still don't like it. The augmentation thing doesn't sit right with me, and I don't like that there's a check necessary. In my mind, divine magic should just work.

That leaves the absolute limit mechanic, which I like. The idea of a divine caster being able to affect you with more powerful shit the weaker you are - the closer to death you are, the more vulnerable your soul is, etc etc - fits, thematically, with what I'm gunning for.

The problem now is: how the fuck do I balance it?

The notion is that you're a cleric, your spell list is in two halves, one half that directly affects dudes that are below some HP value defined by your class and impacted by your Wisdom, and the other half that is indirect or might buff allies. You don't get to dumpster dive through books for spells, you only get domain lists and get access to more from your god or whatever as you gain levels (I'm still undecided about there being a default list of some sort that all clerics can touch).

I have gotten rid of randomized HP and have converted Hit Dice into what I feel are reasonable, static HP progressions; the same holds true for team monster, so I can make reasonable assumptions about how many HPs a given monster at a given level will have. This leaves the question of how to handle the absolute limit: do I make it low, and in turn make clerics feel almost useless? Or do I make it high, and make the mechanic essentially pointless? I feel like there's a middle ground, but it feels awfully narrow and I'm having trouble finding it.

I also still really like the whole concept of "true names," but given the fuckton of work that's necessary for the GM and the player to actually deal with that particular mechanic, and given that it's not baked into d20 (which seems necessary for it to be really functional), I'm not sure it's salvageable.

tl;dr - Trying to make divine casters have spells that work if target is below some HP value, and some spells that work no matter what (but are less effective, can't directly damage, are only for buffing, etc). Is this sensible in the context of a d20 game where HP (players and monsters) is static per level and predictable? Is there a better way to represent the idea of divine casters only able to hit people with their powerful stuff if their "soul" is sufficiently "vulnerable"?

[Slade]

I never liked that d20 arcane and divine casters worked the same, so I've been differentiating them over the years using a variety of methods. Truenaming from ToM seemed like a good idea when I first read it, but that whole thing is a clusterfuck.

I found this thing, and it seemed solid enough, with a number of rather large caveats. I changed the skill check into a level-based check (because I haven't seen a skill-based casting system for d20 that works and isn't immediately abused), I standardized the DCs for each "spell" level, changed the idiotic "changes to your casting stat aren't retroactive to your absolute limit" rule because it was an accounting nightmare, and got rid of some of the other fiddly rules (like the increase in DC when you use a thing multiple times).

At this point, I've concluded that I still don't like it. The augmentation thing doesn't sit right with me, and I don't like that there's a check necessary. In my mind, divine magic should just work.

That leaves the absolute limit mechanic, which I like. The idea of a divine caster being able to affect you with more powerful shit the weaker you are - the closer to death you are, the more vulnerable your soul is, etc etc - fits, thematically, with what I'm gunning for.

The problem now is: how the fuck do I balance it?

The notion is that you're a cleric, your spell list is in two halves, one half that directly affects dudes that are below some HP value defined by your class and impacted by your Wisdom, and the other half that is indirect or might buff allies. You don't get to dumpster dive through books for spells, you only get domain lists and get access to more from your god or whatever as you gain levels (I'm still undecided about there being a default list of some sort that all clerics can touch).

Well, first let us examine the first thing you brought up.
Why does Divine magic just work and arcane does not?
Second, what balance issue does this bring up. What benefit is arcane if divine is auto work.

You decided the balance is lowering spell list?
Arcane has a huge list of known possible, but Divine has a small but very accurate spell list?

You could define the HP thing as a levels:
Full HP: full health
Barely wounded: 80% full to 51%
Wounded: 50% to 21%
At Death's door: 20% or lower

As an aside, you could have three levels 4E had three (Full, Bloodied, dying) instead.

Then you decide how target being wounded helps them cast better.

So arcane casters can augment when they want if make check. Divine augment if target Barely wounded, wounded, or At Death's door: but you still must decide how this helps them augment.

Does this boost their effective skill check (they still make check, but failing just means no augment not that it fails)?

This mechanic might work if you must make divine auto work.

[GnomeWorks]

Why does Divine magic just work and arcane does not?

I did not say anything about how arcane magic works, aside from that it and divine magic work differently.

Arcane magic also "just works." I've set up arcane magic to work with a spell point system.

What benefit is arcane if divine is auto work.

I really don't even want to delve into that question; there are a lot of setting conceits at play.

Assume that divine magic and arcane magic are roughly on par with each other in terms of what they bring to the table. Whether or not that is true is beyond the scope of what I'm talking about here.

Arcane has a huge list of known possible, but Divine has a small but very accurate spell list?

Arcane magic has been given the same treatment; every mage has to pick two out of five or six schools of magic that they progress well in, one that they suck at, and the rest are middling.

You could define the HP thing as a levels:
Full HP: full health
Barely wounded: 80% full to 51%
Wounded: 50% to 21%
At Death's door: 20% or lower

I considered percentages, but decided against it. Lower-level creatures will have lower max HP; it is sensible to me that a higher-level cleric should just be able to roflstomp lower-level critters if their HP is below the cleric's "magic number," because they have "weaker souls/the power bestowed on the cleric is just that awesome/insert whatever other bullshit justification you want here."

If the cleric worked in such a way that their shit always came online when a critter hit 50% hp, that would reduce the feeling of progression with levels. At first level, having to have somebody punch the goblin in the face first before you hit with your divine fire is okay; at fifteenth, you should just be able to walk around and flame strike goblins all the live long day, if that's what floats your boat.

So arcane casters can augment when they want if make check.

Again I said nothing about arcane other than that how they cast and how divine casters works differently. Mages don't get to augment their spells; that's not how their casting works.

Does this boost their effective skill check (they still make check, but failing just means no augment not that it fails)?

Skill checks for casting are fail. Full stop. I already pointed out that I don't want checks, and I don't want divine casters augmenting their spells.