yet another yet another stealth thread [Spellbound]
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:02 pm
Like everyone else I'm writing a fantasy heartbreaker that's probably never going to be finished and never played, but hey, I'm having fun (sometimes). Basic mechanic is 3d6 vs DC. Advantage is to roll an additional d6 but take the highest 3 dice, disadvantage 4d6 take lowest 3. advantage / disadvantage stack and cancel each other out, ie with 3 sources of advantage and 1 disadvantage, you are left with 2 advantages, roll 5d6 take highest 3 dice.
I have a writeup for Stealth, and yeah, give me feedback please. The good news with being unfinished is that there is plenty of room to make changes, even major ones! I'll do what i can to make formatting nice looking here, but it's a low priority to the content.
Edit: I'll be editing the text below to incorporate changes and suggestions.
Edit: added system definition of (dis)advantage above
Edit: updated several sections, formatting has been largely lost as my primary document formatting doesn't convert to the forum.
Stealth
Use stealth to go undetected
During Combat
Stealth, Stealthing
Roll Thievery (Stealth)
Roll Thievery (Stealth). Stealth or Stealthing is an action which requires concealment, during which you move up to half your speed. If you end your turn without concealment, you are automatically detected and located (but moving out of concealment or between concealment during your turn does not automatically detect and locate you); similarly if you lose concealment outside of your turn you are automatically detected and located. Do not roll stealth more than once per round unless you attempt a second stealth action after a previous action negated your concealed status.
Anyone in your immediate area may make a perception (combat sense) check to detect and possibly locate you if they have not already rolled for the round. They roll perception (combat sense) check set at the DC of your stealth roll, plus or minus any relevant modifiers such as distance and if during the turn such modifiers like distance change the outcome, the one rolling perception (combat sense) succeeds at the moment the stealther enters the new square or the other modifiers becomes relevant. The opposite does not benefit the stealther -- you cannot turn a failed stealth check into success by increasing the distance modifier. The perceiver retains their perception (combat sense) check for the round and until the beginning of their next turn.
If you have not been previously detected, on the opponent’s successful perception (combat sense) roll they detect you, and if they succeed by 3 or more they also locate you. If you have been previously detected, the opponent locates you on a successful perception (combat sense) check.
If an opponent moves to a location where you can no longer reasonably benefit from the concealment used, you are automatically detected and located. For example, if within an empty T corridor, you move around the corner for concealment, and the opponent moves to the intersection, you are automatically detected and located. Alternatively, if the hallway is filled with tables, sofas, statues, it could constitute sufficient concealment. Another example, if hiding in the woods crouched behind a tree, an opponent decides to circle your location, the GM can reasonably rule there is enough intervening concealment sources from other trees and bushes to not warrant automatic detection and/or location. Alternatively, a single tree on an open plain is not likely to provide enough concealment if someone were to circle the tree.
Sidebar: do you know if you’ve been detected?
For simplicity and ease of play, during combat it is often better and faster to make all Stealth and Perception checks public and allow the PC to act on this information in a transparent manner, especially if the next action will be determining the outcome of an attack. However, especially against intelligent opponents, there may be times when it is more appropriate to keep this information private. Call for an opposed guile (bluff) vs either guile (sense motive) or perception (social sense) (roller’s choice), to determine if the character stealthing understands if a given opponent has detected or located them.
~~
Undetected
Others are not aware of your presence. They are considered flat-flooted to you. If you’re not in combat any overt action which could reasonably start combat triggers a surprise round during which you may perform the desired action. Some overt actions such as shouting may result in an automatic detection.
Detected
Others are aware of your presence, but not your exact location nor your exact nature, they believe there is ‘something’ nearby. Typically they know the distance category (close, medium, long, extreme, etc) and which hemisphere (which can be listed as north, east, south, west). In a hostile environment this often results in an initiative roll.
Once detected, you remain detected until the GM determines otherwise and this determination is largely contextual. For example, a creature may investigate, find nothing, and then continue their routine.
Located
Others know where you are, which spaces you occupy.
Concealment
Gaining concealment is contextual to the evident senses in play. For most demi-humans, concealment requires being not seen and not heard. The stealth roll represents how well a character achieves these goals, but a stealther must still benefit from some source or sources of concealment that obscures them from sight. In a stealth attempt you may move from an area of no concealment to an area of concealment. Depending on previous circumstances, you will remain detected if detected prior to this stealth attempt. A given terrain will be marked concealment, otherwise for additional circumstances, space can be marked as concealment as appropriate by the GM.
Leaving concealment does not necessarily make you evident immediately, but ending your turn without concealment does. Outside combat, in situations where sources of concealment are sparse or non-existent, remaining undetected could be functionality impossible unless you are able to cover distances between sources of concealment within one round.
Outside combat
Stealth should only be rolled when the character stealthing might be observed by something relevant. A character doesn’t necessarily know how well they are stealthing and it might be more appropriate for the GM to roll a character's stealth in secret. Unless stated otherwise, a stealth check should only be rolled once. To speed up play it is recommended to also have a character make a blind perception check, but circumstances and abilities may prescribe making additional perception checks with other modifiers while stealthing.
Typical uses of stealth outside combat might be to scout an area, infiltrate a location, shadow someone without them noticing, leave an area undetected, bypass a sentry or checkpoint. When in doubt, make opposed stealth vs perception (combat sense) checks with the perceiver winning ties. Two-eyed demihumans are assumed to have 180 degree peripheral vision and while there are no facing rules (and looking ‘behind’ yourself can be done in under a second), circumstances may dictate a given individual is not constantly looking over their shoulder or is largely facing a particular direction.
Sidebar blind rolls
Blind rolls are when someone rolls but does not know the outcome of the roll. Blind rolls can be useful to prevent players from acting on meta information as well as increase tension. Depending on how they are handled it can slow down play. You should always reveal the results of a blind roll after they are no longer relevant.
When scouting, roll a stealth check opposed by perception.
When infiltrating an area roll a stealth check opposed by a static DC
Activities, below are example activities associated with using stealth.
Shadow someone
Follow a target and keep tabs on their activities while they remain unaware. This is a separate activity from tracking someone, and depends on keeping the target in sight or near sight. Shadowing someone does not require a consistent source of concealment as you may not necessarily be hidden. When shadowing someone, declare a range category (typically close or medium). Some ranges may not be practically possible without special senses. Shadowing someone for longer is harder, as is shadowing someone in more deserted areas. Shadowing someone in the wilderness or in deserted ruins is impossible without a consistent source of concealment unless you can appear as innocuous and relevant to the local environs.
Scout the Area
Examine the perimeter, learn the extent of an area.
Characters scouting should also roll perception checks, and possibly other relevant checks. May discern weaknesses, obvious points of transgress, or other locations of interest.
Trespass
Enter onto property, allowing you to infiltrate the location. Often requires overcoming a physical barrier such as climbing a fence or opening a door. Some places are common areas and may not prohibit access, but remaining undetected could be difficult in crowded areas.
Surveille
Stake out important locations, track people coming and going. Learn more about the location. Surveillance can be more difficult over longer and longer time periods.
Infiltrate
Access sensitive areas. Sensitive areas will often have additional precautions such as locked doors, guarded entrances, traps.
Examples.
With ample concealment nearby, sneaking past…
A commoner: DC 12
2 commoners: DC 13
Small group(~4) of commoners: DC 15
Large group(~8) of commoners: DC 16
Multiple Large groups(20+), or high traffic Area: DC 18
Without unique and highly beneficial circumstances, larger groups or groups of groups cannot effectively work together to further increase the DC of a stealth check.
Increase the DC by the groups perception (combat sense) bonus, if uneven use the smallest bonus for the group. If members of the group are especially disparate, consider separating them into two or more groups and assign them each the appropriate DC. PCs and significant NPCs (sNPCs) should roll perception separately. DC assumes range of close (2 to 10 meters), otherwise apply the appropriate distance modifier based off of the closest the character must come during the sneak attempt.
Adjacent, within 1 meter, +1
Close, within 2-10 meters, +0
Medium, 11-30 meters, -1
Long, 31-100 meters, -2
Extreme, 101-300 meters, -3
Overland, 301-1000 meters, -4; 1001m-2000m -5, 2001m-3000m -6, 3001m-4000m -6, 4001m-5000m -7
Assign an additional -1 penalty for every 1000 meters beyond Overland. Without elevation, a medium sized creature cannot see anything beyond the horizon which is 5000 meters. See Perception for more information.
Perception Modifiers
do not consider an exhaustive list, See perception for a full write up. Apply additional circumstances as needed. If a circumstance makes you better or worse at a task apply a + or - 1, if circumstances make you more likely to do your best or worst, apply advantage or disadvantage. It is recommended PCs and significant NPCs roll if they are applying (dis)advantage, but if you need to assign a static DC then add + or - 1 for every net (dis)advantage. Keep in mind you can never roll above or below 18 or 3 no matter how many rolls or sources of (dis)advantage you are modeling in a given circumstance. So Multiple Large groups with multiple sources of advantage will still top out at a DC 19 stealth check before adding in the lowest common bonus of those groups.
Common Modifiers to perception DCs:
Distracted -1
Disorganized (apply only to groups) -1
Disinterested* -1
Commanding Location (eg, watch tower, crows nest), advantage
* If applying the disinterested modifier, if the steather rolls exactly the DC, consider having someone notice but not care or otherwise intervene.
Terrain modifiers to stealth
ignore if easily bypassed (such as with flight), add together all that apply.
Difficult terrain -1
Snow -1
Falling Snow (dampens sound) +1
Especially loud terrain (creaky floors, crunch leaves) -1
Howling Winds or other loud ambient noises. +1
Very Loud Ambient Noises (armies clashing, industrial machinery, operatic / orchestral performances) +2
Water (placid lakes, stagnant swamp, puddles) -1
Rushing water (river rapids, ocean wave breaks) +1
Misc
Invisible*, constant source of concealment (sight) and advantage on stealth checks
Magical flight, +1 and ignore most terrain
Mechanical flight, -1 and ignore most terrain
Magically Silent(self only**), +2
*You still displace matter around you, lose automatic concealment in water deeper than a puddle, see condition(invisible) for a full treatment.
**A distinction is made between the stealther able to magically silence themselves and their equipment, and an area of silence that causes all ambient noise in the area to drop to 0 decibels. Areas of silence are immediately evident to anyone inside one that can hear as all ambient noise and all noise created by themselves stop.
Modifiers for Shadowing, stack all that apply
Bustling market, +1
Carnival or extreme crowds, +2
Deserted or desolate area, -1
Inconspicuous appearance*, -1 to -3
Small village, -1
Hamlet, -2
Large city, +1
Metropolis, +2
Length of Shadowing**, -1 to -3
*The more you stick out from the locals, the more likely you will be noticed.
**GM discretion, typically for every hour apply an additional -1 up to -3, if the target is traveling large distances through town this time could be reduced between significant changes in venue.
Areas.
Sample Area Haskins Outpost
Perception (notice) DC 0
Visible from a few kilometers, a watch tower sits atop a local hill overlooking the surrounding fields and forested area.
1km?hex? Zone
Surveille. Every hour spent in surveillance increases stealth DCs by 1 up to a maximum of +3.
Stealth, Scout the Area DC 13; Success, identify the Watchtower.
Nature, Survival(track) DC 15; Identify Patrol Groups.
Perception, Search DC 15; Find Haskins Perch
Failure, chance of nearby patrol.
Critical failure, spotted by watchtower guard.
Haskins Events
16% 3-7 Patrol with Captain Notices you
34% 8-10 Patrol Notices you
34% 11-13 No Event
16% 14-18 Stumble upon Haskins Perch
Haskins Perch
A small brook runs through a clutch of berry trees and moss which provides a secluded spot with good sights of the tower and nearby area.
Surveilling from Haskins Perch does not increase stealth DCs.
Trespass DC 13 and 30m. The immediate area around the watchtower is bear of sources of concealment (besides being underneath the watchtower itself). You must be able to travel 30m in a single round while stealing to not be automatically seen by the two tower guards rotating around the deck.
Watchtower
A 10m wooden structure, climbed via a rope ladder the guards tend to keep deployed. A small 3m room, and 360 1m deck provides good views into the area.
2 guards per shift.
Infiltrate Watchtower DC 15
Success, Access the Watchtower’s small room.
Failure, Alert to presence.
I have a writeup for Stealth, and yeah, give me feedback please. The good news with being unfinished is that there is plenty of room to make changes, even major ones! I'll do what i can to make formatting nice looking here, but it's a low priority to the content.
Edit: I'll be editing the text below to incorporate changes and suggestions.
Edit: added system definition of (dis)advantage above
Edit: updated several sections, formatting has been largely lost as my primary document formatting doesn't convert to the forum.
Stealth
Use stealth to go undetected
During Combat
Stealth, Stealthing
Roll Thievery (Stealth)
Roll Thievery (Stealth). Stealth or Stealthing is an action which requires concealment, during which you move up to half your speed. If you end your turn without concealment, you are automatically detected and located (but moving out of concealment or between concealment during your turn does not automatically detect and locate you); similarly if you lose concealment outside of your turn you are automatically detected and located. Do not roll stealth more than once per round unless you attempt a second stealth action after a previous action negated your concealed status.
Anyone in your immediate area may make a perception (combat sense) check to detect and possibly locate you if they have not already rolled for the round. They roll perception (combat sense) check set at the DC of your stealth roll, plus or minus any relevant modifiers such as distance and if during the turn such modifiers like distance change the outcome, the one rolling perception (combat sense) succeeds at the moment the stealther enters the new square or the other modifiers becomes relevant. The opposite does not benefit the stealther -- you cannot turn a failed stealth check into success by increasing the distance modifier. The perceiver retains their perception (combat sense) check for the round and until the beginning of their next turn.
If you have not been previously detected, on the opponent’s successful perception (combat sense) roll they detect you, and if they succeed by 3 or more they also locate you. If you have been previously detected, the opponent locates you on a successful perception (combat sense) check.
If an opponent moves to a location where you can no longer reasonably benefit from the concealment used, you are automatically detected and located. For example, if within an empty T corridor, you move around the corner for concealment, and the opponent moves to the intersection, you are automatically detected and located. Alternatively, if the hallway is filled with tables, sofas, statues, it could constitute sufficient concealment. Another example, if hiding in the woods crouched behind a tree, an opponent decides to circle your location, the GM can reasonably rule there is enough intervening concealment sources from other trees and bushes to not warrant automatic detection and/or location. Alternatively, a single tree on an open plain is not likely to provide enough concealment if someone were to circle the tree.
Sidebar: do you know if you’ve been detected?
For simplicity and ease of play, during combat it is often better and faster to make all Stealth and Perception checks public and allow the PC to act on this information in a transparent manner, especially if the next action will be determining the outcome of an attack. However, especially against intelligent opponents, there may be times when it is more appropriate to keep this information private. Call for an opposed guile (bluff) vs either guile (sense motive) or perception (social sense) (roller’s choice), to determine if the character stealthing understands if a given opponent has detected or located them.
~~
Undetected
Others are not aware of your presence. They are considered flat-flooted to you. If you’re not in combat any overt action which could reasonably start combat triggers a surprise round during which you may perform the desired action. Some overt actions such as shouting may result in an automatic detection.
Detected
Others are aware of your presence, but not your exact location nor your exact nature, they believe there is ‘something’ nearby. Typically they know the distance category (close, medium, long, extreme, etc) and which hemisphere (which can be listed as north, east, south, west). In a hostile environment this often results in an initiative roll.
Once detected, you remain detected until the GM determines otherwise and this determination is largely contextual. For example, a creature may investigate, find nothing, and then continue their routine.
Located
Others know where you are, which spaces you occupy.
Concealment
Gaining concealment is contextual to the evident senses in play. For most demi-humans, concealment requires being not seen and not heard. The stealth roll represents how well a character achieves these goals, but a stealther must still benefit from some source or sources of concealment that obscures them from sight. In a stealth attempt you may move from an area of no concealment to an area of concealment. Depending on previous circumstances, you will remain detected if detected prior to this stealth attempt. A given terrain will be marked concealment, otherwise for additional circumstances, space can be marked as concealment as appropriate by the GM.
Leaving concealment does not necessarily make you evident immediately, but ending your turn without concealment does. Outside combat, in situations where sources of concealment are sparse or non-existent, remaining undetected could be functionality impossible unless you are able to cover distances between sources of concealment within one round.
Outside combat
Stealth should only be rolled when the character stealthing might be observed by something relevant. A character doesn’t necessarily know how well they are stealthing and it might be more appropriate for the GM to roll a character's stealth in secret. Unless stated otherwise, a stealth check should only be rolled once. To speed up play it is recommended to also have a character make a blind perception check, but circumstances and abilities may prescribe making additional perception checks with other modifiers while stealthing.
Typical uses of stealth outside combat might be to scout an area, infiltrate a location, shadow someone without them noticing, leave an area undetected, bypass a sentry or checkpoint. When in doubt, make opposed stealth vs perception (combat sense) checks with the perceiver winning ties. Two-eyed demihumans are assumed to have 180 degree peripheral vision and while there are no facing rules (and looking ‘behind’ yourself can be done in under a second), circumstances may dictate a given individual is not constantly looking over their shoulder or is largely facing a particular direction.
Sidebar blind rolls
Blind rolls are when someone rolls but does not know the outcome of the roll. Blind rolls can be useful to prevent players from acting on meta information as well as increase tension. Depending on how they are handled it can slow down play. You should always reveal the results of a blind roll after they are no longer relevant.
When scouting, roll a stealth check opposed by perception.
When infiltrating an area roll a stealth check opposed by a static DC
Activities, below are example activities associated with using stealth.
Shadow someone
Follow a target and keep tabs on their activities while they remain unaware. This is a separate activity from tracking someone, and depends on keeping the target in sight or near sight. Shadowing someone does not require a consistent source of concealment as you may not necessarily be hidden. When shadowing someone, declare a range category (typically close or medium). Some ranges may not be practically possible without special senses. Shadowing someone for longer is harder, as is shadowing someone in more deserted areas. Shadowing someone in the wilderness or in deserted ruins is impossible without a consistent source of concealment unless you can appear as innocuous and relevant to the local environs.
Scout the Area
Examine the perimeter, learn the extent of an area.
Characters scouting should also roll perception checks, and possibly other relevant checks. May discern weaknesses, obvious points of transgress, or other locations of interest.
Trespass
Enter onto property, allowing you to infiltrate the location. Often requires overcoming a physical barrier such as climbing a fence or opening a door. Some places are common areas and may not prohibit access, but remaining undetected could be difficult in crowded areas.
Surveille
Stake out important locations, track people coming and going. Learn more about the location. Surveillance can be more difficult over longer and longer time periods.
Infiltrate
Access sensitive areas. Sensitive areas will often have additional precautions such as locked doors, guarded entrances, traps.
Examples.
With ample concealment nearby, sneaking past…
A commoner: DC 12
2 commoners: DC 13
Small group(~4) of commoners: DC 15
Large group(~8) of commoners: DC 16
Multiple Large groups(20+), or high traffic Area: DC 18
Without unique and highly beneficial circumstances, larger groups or groups of groups cannot effectively work together to further increase the DC of a stealth check.
Increase the DC by the groups perception (combat sense) bonus, if uneven use the smallest bonus for the group. If members of the group are especially disparate, consider separating them into two or more groups and assign them each the appropriate DC. PCs and significant NPCs (sNPCs) should roll perception separately. DC assumes range of close (2 to 10 meters), otherwise apply the appropriate distance modifier based off of the closest the character must come during the sneak attempt.
Adjacent, within 1 meter, +1
Close, within 2-10 meters, +0
Medium, 11-30 meters, -1
Long, 31-100 meters, -2
Extreme, 101-300 meters, -3
Overland, 301-1000 meters, -4; 1001m-2000m -5, 2001m-3000m -6, 3001m-4000m -6, 4001m-5000m -7
Assign an additional -1 penalty for every 1000 meters beyond Overland. Without elevation, a medium sized creature cannot see anything beyond the horizon which is 5000 meters. See Perception for more information.
Perception Modifiers
do not consider an exhaustive list, See perception for a full write up. Apply additional circumstances as needed. If a circumstance makes you better or worse at a task apply a + or - 1, if circumstances make you more likely to do your best or worst, apply advantage or disadvantage. It is recommended PCs and significant NPCs roll if they are applying (dis)advantage, but if you need to assign a static DC then add + or - 1 for every net (dis)advantage. Keep in mind you can never roll above or below 18 or 3 no matter how many rolls or sources of (dis)advantage you are modeling in a given circumstance. So Multiple Large groups with multiple sources of advantage will still top out at a DC 19 stealth check before adding in the lowest common bonus of those groups.
Common Modifiers to perception DCs:
Distracted -1
Disorganized (apply only to groups) -1
Disinterested* -1
Commanding Location (eg, watch tower, crows nest), advantage
* If applying the disinterested modifier, if the steather rolls exactly the DC, consider having someone notice but not care or otherwise intervene.
Terrain modifiers to stealth
ignore if easily bypassed (such as with flight), add together all that apply.
Difficult terrain -1
Snow -1
Falling Snow (dampens sound) +1
Especially loud terrain (creaky floors, crunch leaves) -1
Howling Winds or other loud ambient noises. +1
Very Loud Ambient Noises (armies clashing, industrial machinery, operatic / orchestral performances) +2
Water (placid lakes, stagnant swamp, puddles) -1
Rushing water (river rapids, ocean wave breaks) +1
Misc
Invisible*, constant source of concealment (sight) and advantage on stealth checks
Magical flight, +1 and ignore most terrain
Mechanical flight, -1 and ignore most terrain
Magically Silent(self only**), +2
*You still displace matter around you, lose automatic concealment in water deeper than a puddle, see condition(invisible) for a full treatment.
**A distinction is made between the stealther able to magically silence themselves and their equipment, and an area of silence that causes all ambient noise in the area to drop to 0 decibels. Areas of silence are immediately evident to anyone inside one that can hear as all ambient noise and all noise created by themselves stop.
Modifiers for Shadowing, stack all that apply
Bustling market, +1
Carnival or extreme crowds, +2
Deserted or desolate area, -1
Inconspicuous appearance*, -1 to -3
Small village, -1
Hamlet, -2
Large city, +1
Metropolis, +2
Length of Shadowing**, -1 to -3
*The more you stick out from the locals, the more likely you will be noticed.
**GM discretion, typically for every hour apply an additional -1 up to -3, if the target is traveling large distances through town this time could be reduced between significant changes in venue.
Areas.
Sample Area Haskins Outpost
Perception (notice) DC 0
Visible from a few kilometers, a watch tower sits atop a local hill overlooking the surrounding fields and forested area.
1km?hex? Zone
Surveille. Every hour spent in surveillance increases stealth DCs by 1 up to a maximum of +3.
Stealth, Scout the Area DC 13; Success, identify the Watchtower.
Nature, Survival(track) DC 15; Identify Patrol Groups.
Perception, Search DC 15; Find Haskins Perch
Failure, chance of nearby patrol.
Critical failure, spotted by watchtower guard.
Haskins Events
16% 3-7 Patrol with Captain Notices you
34% 8-10 Patrol Notices you
34% 11-13 No Event
16% 14-18 Stumble upon Haskins Perch
Haskins Perch
A small brook runs through a clutch of berry trees and moss which provides a secluded spot with good sights of the tower and nearby area.
Surveilling from Haskins Perch does not increase stealth DCs.
Trespass DC 13 and 30m. The immediate area around the watchtower is bear of sources of concealment (besides being underneath the watchtower itself). You must be able to travel 30m in a single round while stealing to not be automatically seen by the two tower guards rotating around the deck.
Watchtower
A 10m wooden structure, climbed via a rope ladder the guards tend to keep deployed. A small 3m room, and 360 1m deck provides good views into the area.
2 guards per shift.
Infiltrate Watchtower DC 15
Success, Access the Watchtower’s small room.
Failure, Alert to presence.