So, is it just me, are are these upcoming Illumians nuts?

[Oberoni]

Linkaroni

Ok, these guys, in theory, seem not bad. Not bad at all. Their basic schtick is that they're a mystical race that gains different powers from the different runes buzzing around their heads, and they gain more runes as they gain more Hit Dice. At the very least, an Illumian Rogue gives up one Rogue level to eventually get 3d6 extra dice of Sneak Attack. Not too shabby.

My problem is that, if the race gets into Races of Destiny written exactly as it is in the link above, I think there's gonna be some problems. Let me show you:

Shel: This sigil, part of the Illumian word for "growth," enables the illumian to wild shape or polymorph into creatures with 1 more Hit Dice than the illumian has levels, per sigil. For example a 5th-level illumian druid with the shel sigil could wild shape into creatures of up to 8 HD.

I don't see any requirement to have any previous Wild Shape or Polymorph ability in there at all.

I'm sure that's what they meant, but I don't see it.

That's bad. A casual reader who couldn't read Mat Smith (or whoever wrote up this race)'s mind would probably rightfully conclude that this sigil gives you the ability to wildshape or polymorph, period.

I'm not just being hyperliteral here--it's only by reading the rest of the race's description that I can even guess that the general theme of the Illumian is to make existing class abilities better.

But this isn't the only problem ability:

Zill: This sigil, which forms the Illumian word for "death," grants extra dice of sneak attack damage equal to the number of sigils she has, divided by two and rounded up.

This seems problematic in that I don't see why you couldn't just take it with no levels of SA at all and then, y'know, get those levels from this sigil. Seriously, it's really easy to add a number to 0. Is there some general rule in D&D that prevents you from getting "extra" of something until you have at least one of it?

Illumian Words: Some combinations of sigils grant extra abilities when they spell Illumian words of great power. If an illumian has the sigils to form any of the following words, he or she gains the relevant benefit. Uurkrau: Illumians possessing both the uur and krau sigils have their arcane spell failure chance reduced by 10% for each sigil they possess. Many illumians with both uur and krau are fighter/wizards.

This is just neat, not really problematic per se. You pick up those runes, you won't have to worry about arcane spell failure again. Cool.

Cheahoon: Illumians with both the chea sigil and the hoon sigil can instantaneously convert potential spell energy into ki power for extra damage. When striking unarmed or with a special monk weapon, the illumian can sacrifice a spell slot (as if she cast the spell) to deal an extra 1d6 points of damage per spell level sacrificed. For example, an illumian who's a 6th-level sorcerer could sacrifice a 3rd-level spell slot to deal an extra 3d6 points of damage.

This seems beefy for a druid, or for anyone that's convinced their DM that the afore-mentioned Shel sigil just up and gives you shapechanging powers. Again, not a problem per se, but something worth noting.

Naenmao: Illumians with both the naen and mao sigils have unlocked the secret of converting positive or negative elemental energy into psionic energy -- and back again. As a free action, the illumian can make an attempt to turn or rebuke undead, instead channeling the energy into her own mind. The illumian then makes a turning check, and she can thereafter spend power points as if she were a psionic character with a level equal to the maximum Hit Dice she could turn. She can therefore spend more power points per round than she'd ordinarily be able to do so. The higher spending limit lasts for 1 round for each sigil the illumian has.

Back to the problematic stuff. This doesn't in any way list any previous turning ability as a pre-req, so even though it's problably against intent, I don't see why you'd need a class with the ability to turn in order to use it.

...so, am I on something, or will poor writing give these guys more juice than originally intended?

[Dragon_Child]

I agree that Shel is definitly poorly written. It would have been so easy to fix. It still might be abusable, even once fixed. Zill, though, seems like it will ALWAYS be too strong.

I think if you play it so all of the "add to" and "extra" ones don't actually grant anything if you don't have them, it will be fine. But with the way it's currently written, it will definitly be problematic.

[MrWaeseL]

Does taking Shel qualify you to take the Blindsight feat from Sticks and Stones?

[Username17]

Actually no. Polymorph isn't like Temporary Hit Points, that just last until something tells them to end. Polymorph doesn't last unless it is given a duration. So the fact that the shel rune doesn't give you uses per day or durations means that you can't use it at all.

Smite doesn't inerently come with any bonus attack or damage, so a Dool rune by itself can be activated a number of times equal to half your runes, round up. But it doesn't do a god damned thing, because it's just +0 to damage and +0 to hit unless something in the ability says otherwise.

Sneak Attack, on the other hand, is an automatic ability that triggers off a circumstance and an attack roll. So the Zil rune really does give you sneak attack even if you don't have any to begin with. And you can stack them. All of your runes can be Zil runes and by level 16 you will have 15 dice of sneak attack.

But who cares? Why the hell would you bother to do that without investing in sneak attack on your own? It's not like Rogue levels aren't good, and sneak attack all stacks. The goal, therefore, is to take Zil runes in addition to actual sneak attack, not instead! And while we're on the subject, the Zildoon combi-word is so astoundingly powerful that you really want to have a few paladin or Blackguard levels in with your Roguing and take one of your runes out to be a Doon. By 16th level you'll be having 7 sneak attack natively, 12 extra sneak attack dice for no reason, and an additional 10 dice of damage on top of that every time you declare one of your copious number of smite attacks.

And hey, your saves won't even suck, because you'll have Paladin levels in there.

---

And that's... really good. But honestly, so the fvck what? It doesn't really come into its own until you get to 16th level - at 11th level you get a big whuppin 6 extra sneak attack dice, a far cry from 12. Can anyone tell me that they do so crazy much damage, including the fact that they are a whole level behind on BAB for a multiclass rogue, that they overshadow Wizards at that level?

Probably not. The Illumian goes quadratic in his power increase. That's good, Druids are quadratic in their power increase. It's about fvcking time that someone could do that as a non-caster. I mean, let's face it: the Illumian setups for casters and Manifesters aren't even good.

-Username17

[Username17]

So Races of Destiny actually came out. And the Illumians take up... forty fvcking pages! I honestly can't be bothered to read that much about a bunch of forehead aliens that I don't care about.

The most important thing to note about these jokers is that they no longer have a level allowance.

Nevertheless, I did look through the power sygils. They aren't a damn thing like the original web write-up. Not even close. For starters, instead of having abou eleven scaling power letters that are each supposed to synergize with a core class - there are exactly six power letters. The letters do not scale, and each adds exactly 1 to skill checks. No, there is no power letter that adds +1 to Constitution-based Skill checks, that has been folded into the Wisdom one. There is instead a power letter that adds +1 to your caster level - with a maximum equal to your character level - whose only purpose I can see is to power words.

However, the good news for Illumians is that every single combination of power letters you have produces a combo. The bad news is that you are seemingly only ever going to get 2 sygils. The good news is that they didn't word that properly, and a sufficiently multiclassed Illumian can catch them all by 12th level.

There are some interesting power words:

* If you add +1 to Strength Checks and Pretend to add one to your caster level, you get to use your Strength modifier to power all spells. Which means that you can go "all crazy" as a Polymorpher, or remove MAD from the Chameleon. This is nuts. Try it out while polymorphing into a Titan.

* If you add +1 to Int and Wis skills, you get Divine Metamagic twice per day. On any metamagic you know. And it doesn't cost a turn check to start up, so it's better.

* If you take +1 to your Dex skills and pretend to add to your caster level, you can use your Dex Modifier to power all your spell DCs and such. This is less abusable than Strength, because getting big adds more Strength than getting small adds to Dex. But it's also less of a pain in the ass, since Tinkerbell has a so much easier time insinuating herself into adventures than Jasconius.

* If you add +1 to your Int and Dex skills, you learn a special 2nd level Druid spell that is a supernatural ability which adds +2 Insight bonus to all your attack rolls while in Wild Shape.

-Username17

[RandomCasualty]

Great, just what we need, another race to make wizards, druids and clerics even better...

[Boulie_98]

1104868843[/unixtime]]* If you add +1 to Strength Checks and Pretend to add one to your caster level, you get to use your Strength modifier to power all spells. Which means that you can go "all crazy" as a Polymorpher, or remove MAD from the Chameleon. This is nuts. Try it out while polymorphing into a Titan.

Could some Zodar fun be added to the mix? They only have a 25 STR but the (ex) ability to double your strength for a single round is worthwhile on its own and even moreso if you could combine it with a higher str.

Maybe it would be nice to use that super strength to power that free wish being a Zodar nets you. With a high DC and no SR that's a nice trick.

[Username17]

That's good. Really good. Getting save DCs in the 80s is rather trivial when you have Zodar form around!

But you wouldn't want to walk around as a Zodar all the time - your Strength Bonus has to count for a full hour if you want to prepare extra spells off of the higher value.

-Username17

[Username17]

By the way, the Illumians aren't the only wacky race in there:

Aasimar and Tieflings Yes, you are still every bit as good as a Gnome, and you still have a level adjustment. Good for you.

Doppelgangers These are completely unplayable. LA +4?!

Half Ogre: Remember way back in the day, when I proved mathematically that the Half Ogre was kind of crappy compared to the Orc? Well, they've bumped the LA up to +2, so now they suck even more.

Mongrelfolk:

Sea Kin: These boys are new. They have a "disadvantage" where if they don't get a bath once a week, they start taking one point of Con damage every day (con damage heals at the rate of 1 per day). They also have the magical ability to heal Con Damage at the rate of 1d4 per hour - making them the best Vile Mages ever. You get the Human skill points, but not the bonus feat. You get a swim speed and breath holding, and low-light vision, and weapon familiarity with the net and trident, and +2 on Escape Artist Checks. A pretty decent race all around.

Sharakim: Obviously, these people were supposed to have some incredibly awesome power that got left on the editting floor. Or something. They have no decent abilities at all and a Level Adustment. They are: +2 Str, +2 Int, -2 Dex, -2 Cha. So their stats are good and bad whether you want to play a Wizard, a Fighter, or a Rogue. No freebies there. Then you get Darkvision, +2 to some skills while in shadows, and a racial bonus to attack Orcs. Your only real ability is +1 Natty Armor, but you have Light Sensitivity. The race is a little on the crappy side, and it has a Level Adjustment. Maybe they were supposed to get some kind of whacky magical powers - but currently they just don't have any.

Skulks: Skulks are not playable characters and I have no idea why they are given writeups as if they were. t's probably just to note that they have the [human] subtype - since the monster book that has their original writeup fails to mention this.

Underfolk: As the Seakin are to the human, the Underfolk are to the human. This time your disad is real (Light Sensitivity). And your weapon familiarity sucks (picks). But your skill bonuses are basically better (+2 to listen, +10 to hide in rocky terrain). Also, you get Darkvision.


The three playable races from this book are:

Illumian
Seakin
Underfolk

-Username17

[Zherog]

1104909924[/unixtime]]Sharakim: Obviously, these people were supposed to have some incredibly awesome power that got left on the editting floor. Or something. They have no decent abilities at all and a Level Adustment. They are: +2 Str, +2 Int, -2 Dex, -2 Cha. So their stats are good and bad whether you want to play a Wizard, a Fighter, or a Rogue. No freebies there. Then you get Darkvision, +2 to some skills while in shadows, and a racial bonus to attack Orcs. Your only real ability is +1 Natty Armor, but you have Light Sensitivity. The race is a little on the crappy side, and it has a Level Adjustment. Maybe they were supposed to get some kind of whacky magical powers - but currently they just don't have any.

Isn't Natty Armor automatically worth an LA - at least according to WotC? I'm not saying that's right - but if that's how they treat it, it would explain why this race that appears on first glance to be worse than dwarves, elves and gnomes would have a +1 LA.

[Username17]

Isn't Natty Armor automatically worth an LA - at least according to WotC?

Um... no. At least, the Neraph (who get +2 Natty Armor for free) would lead us to believe that this is not true. Neraph also get free martial weapon proficiency and darkvision. And they get a weird bonus where they get to make each opponent lose their dex bonus once each combat by throwing a weapon at them or charging.

-Username17

[Zherog]

Just goes to show how poor my memory is, I suppose. I coulda sworn that the two things that guaranteed an LA were unbalanced stat adjustments on the positive side and Natty Armor.

At least the first of those is still true, right? Or is my whole world gonna crumble down around me today?

[Username17]

I'm going to have to destroy your world I suppose.

Vanara

+2 Int, +2 Wis, -2 Str
Climb Speed. +4 Balance and Jump, +2 Hide and Move Silently. Low-light Vision.
LA +0

According to Half-Orc logic, these are balanced stats. But we know better, don't we?

-Username17

[Sma]

You forgot to mention that you get to look like a monkey, which is probably an LA+2 in itself.

Sma

[Zherog]

* picks up the pieces of his shattered world and tries to super-glue them back together *

[Wrenfield]

I actually liked Mongrelman using the 3.0 OA/Rokugan version of the Shukenja variant who could use his CON as his casting stat.

At +4 CON with a +0 ECL and the ability to make perfectly pitched duck call sounds ... now that's a bargain!

[grey_muse]

Where is the 3.5 write-up for Vanara? Those monkeys were cheese in the old days, but I thought there was some nerfage that happened. Maybe that was jus wishful thinking.

grey muse

[Sir Neil]

In one of the new Dragons, they've been striped of their LA. It's the one with the asian tjick.

[grey_muse]

Heh... "nerf-age", without the hyphen, got caught by the filter. Cute.

Huh. I thought they also lost their stat mods, or something. Or maybe I just didn't care, because I don't use them in my games.

grey muse

[Count Arioch the 28th]

They lost their stat mods, positive and negative, and retain their other abilities.

[User3]

1104868843[/unixtime]]

* If you add +1 to Strength Checks and Pretend to add one to your caster level, you get to use your Strength modifier to power all spells. Which means that you can go "all crazy" as a Polymorpher, or remove MAD from the Chameleon. This is nuts. Try it out while polymorphing into a Titan.

* If you take +1 to your Dex skills and pretend to add to your caster level, you can use your Dex Modifier to power all your spell DCs and such. This is less abusable than Strength, because getting big adds more Strength than getting small adds to Dex. But it's also less of a pain in the ass, since Tinkerbell has a so much easier time insinuating herself into adventures than Jasconius.

Just thought I'd point out that the runewords only work for bonus spells per day. Not the maximum level of spells you can cast, and definitely not the DC.

Still, I'm thinking that the Illumian Artificer 5/Ardent dilettante 1/Chameleon 7 (with the Dex runeword) is very playable.

[MrWaeseL]

Yeah, but it's a Chameleon.

[User3]

1105952314[/unixtime]]Yeah, but it's a Chameleon.

Why yes, yes it is.

[Username17]

I think the point is that since any Chameleon build at all can simply choose to prepare some spells off of the Divine Crusader of Nerull list and permanently add a number of temporary hit dice equal to the combined number of hit dice of every single animal you can find without adding ECL - the abilty to make a Chameleon which is merely playable is faint praise.

-Username17

[User3]

1105952952[/unixtime]]Ithe abilty to make a Chameleon which is merely playable is faint praise.

-Username17

Very playable, not "merely" playable.

And ya, Cham is just as broken as any primary spellcaster. That doesn't mean that you have to break it. Some people just play for fun and don't try to UMD Pelor to death with a staff of Blasphemy