Scheduling a Game System

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Username17
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Scheduling a Game System

Post by Username17 »

So I've been doing a lot of thinking about the nuts and bolts of making a game. And one of the important considerations is producing expansion content. As we've seen from 4e D&D's failures, there is a saturation point. But a lot of gaming companies hit the other wall: release too slowly and fans will spend their money on other things or even lose interest in your product. So I think it's important to make a schedule and stick to it.

Your core book (or books) are going to sell more than your expansion books. Some people are going to buy expansion books by themselves, but these people are ridiculously in the minority. Normally you can expect all the players to buy the main core book, a big chunk of the players to buy any secondary core books, and some fraction of the player base to buy expansion books. Stuff like Adventures barely pays for itself, but you're mostly using those to advertise the corebook honestly.

I regard the 4e strategy of "Everything is Core" to have been a failure. I feel that I am totally justified in this assessment, because WotC regarded it as a failure and reclassified all the expansion books as being "D&D Rules Supplements." Everything is Core is a dead concept. And I suspect that it scared people away from the line. People saw a list of ten "core" books, decided that they didn't have 300 dollars to drop all at once, and just didn't. Nevertheless, "core" books sell better than "supplements" so you're going to want to print some of them. But spaced out, so that people who feel that they "must" buy every core book don't feel wallet shock and abandon your game.

For every book you make, you're going to be balancing two things: Number of Interested Customers, and Value per Customer. That is an important distinction. Every player who feels that there is something of value to them will consider buying the book, but in that consideration goes a mental equation of how much of the book interests them against the cost. This means that a book like the Complete Divine may well outsell a book like the Complete Adventurer - because a book that has a lot of material for a small part of the fan base may sell to a large percentage of those people, while a book that sells to a small percentage of a larger swathe of the fanbase may add up to a smaller group. Critically we see this with Shadowrun books like Feral Cities and Corporate Enclaves. Since each of those books had a bunch of unconnected cities in them, the chances of more than a tiny part of each book being useful to any game group was extremely slim. And while lots of people had their interests somewhat piqued - the actual number of people who paid for copies was very small.

An Edition of Shadowrun

Shadowrun is not like Dungeons and Dragons or World of Darkness, in that it claims to be complete out of a single Core Book. This helps considerably with wallet shock for new players, in that they are grabbing a single book. It may hurt the sales of later core books some, but I don't really see any evidence of that.

Supplemental Core Books Shadowrun has a long and successful history with releasing a "core" book for each broad type of enhancement: magic, biotechnology, gear, and matrix. This is a successful model, and only needs to be adjusted later in the game's cycle by adding additional core books to the mix.

Location Supplements Location supplements have a spotty history. Some of them, like Seattle 2072 and Tir Tairngire: Land of Promise did well despite me thinking they were dumb. But a lot of them tanked hard. I'm not sure if the Germany Sourcebook sold through even today. Location surveys like Shadows of Asia and Shadows of Europe worked, but location surveys like Runner Havens and Feral Cities were expensive failures. I think the key is that a location book should talk about gong between every area in it. So surveys of locations that are next to each other have inherently more traction than those that don't. Seattle sold when it was the core setting, and adjacent countries like Tir Tairngire sold for that reason.

Event Books People like the Shadowrun metaplot. If it advances too fast, people complain, but stuff like System Failure gets high marks and reasonable sales. I believe that even one per year is probably too fast.

Concept Supplements Shadowrun really lends itself to books that are about a certain kind of crime or shadowrunner. Cyberpirates, Shadowbeat, we love it.

Adventures The adventures sell poorly and are only needed for cons and introductions. Frankly the Missions model is pretty decent. They need to be restructured so that people are paid royalties instead of flat fees for Missions, and then the whole Mission Team can be outsourced. They should also be produced continuously, to the point that I'm not going to bother putting them on the schedule.

The First Year
  • Shadowrun 5: The Core Book. The big cheese. The money maker. The thing that everything
  • Sixh World Almanac An overview of each of the countries in the sixth world. With maps.
  • Ghost Hunters The first Event book. Restore the Treaty of Denver. Kill Ghostwalker. Not in a bullshit "no body" way - fucking murder his ass. That'll wake people up. The book presents Ghostwaker's bad ass stats, and presents some options for the PCs participating in the international conspiracy to do it, up to and including helping to pull the trigger themselves.
  • The Setting Sun The first location book. Vancouver, Seattle, Portland, San Franciso, LA, and San Diego. Has a section on the Salish-Sidhe, the UCAS, Tir Tairngire, the CFS, the PCC, an Aztlan. Discussion on smuggling things and hostilities between those countries.
  • War! The first Concept Supplement. It's about Mercenaries.
  • Destroying News The second Concept Supplement. It's about news, information warfare, and public relations.
The Second Year
  • Modern Thaumaturgy The first bonus Core book. The Magic book.
  • Human Resources A Concept Supplement - human trafficking, slavery, cannibals, and insect spirits.
  • Rising Suns The second Location book. Vladivostok, Pyongyang. Tokyo, Hong Kong, Ho Chi Minh, Singapore. Needless to say, has a section on the New Soviet, United Korea, Imperial Nippon, the Canton Confederation, Dai Viet, and um... Singapore. Talks a lot about corporations, in addition to international smuggling. Evo, Shiawase, Renraku, Mitsuhama, and Wuxing get top billing.
  • Silk Road A Concept Supplement - drug smuggling, dealing, and drug wars.
  • A New You The Second bonus core book - augmentations.
The Third Year
  • New Horizons The second Event Book.
  • Arsenal Bonus Core Book - gear.
  • The Black Flag A Concept Supplement - Piracy.
  • Extraterritorial The third "Location" book - it's all about Corporate territory.
  • Virtual Realities Bonus Core Book - Matrix.
The Fourth Year
  • Shadowrun... in Space! A location book. In space. So you talk about the Mars base, the Moon Base, and four of your favorite space stations. Lots of discussions about how you get from place to place in space with Shadowrun's future tech.
  • Blood Money A Concept Book - Assassins and Bodyguards.
  • Bumps in the Night Bonus Core Book - Beastiary.
  • Eating Dust Concept Book - Smugglers and vehicle thives. Selling Contraband.
  • Plastisteel Curtains A Location Book: Pick three Western and 3 Eastern European cities. I'm fond of Paris, Frankfurt, and Naples vs. Krakow, Prague, and Bucharest, but your mileage may vary.
The Fifth Year
  • Earth Rise An Event Book.
  • The Monofilament Edge Bonus Core Book. Focuses on crazy advances in magic and technology.
  • Cloak and Cyberspurs Concept Book - Spies.
  • Shadows of Africa A location Book focusing on Africa.
  • Runner's Companion Bonus Core Book. Bullshit player options, like being one of those four armed dudes whose name translates to "prostitute."
The Sixth Year
  • Heavy Plastic Bonus Core Book - mostly vehicles, building materials, explosives, and military equipment.
  • Rival Houses Concept Book - Criminal Syndicates
  • Transatlantical Location Book - London, Dublin, Boston, New York, Nuuk, Atlanta. GB, Tir na nOg, UCAS, Transpolar Aleut, and CAS.
  • Bug Hunt Concept Book - bounty hunters and monster killers.
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Post by Lokathor »

What does a game edition look like if you're not selling it? If it's just being done and put online for your friends and such to download, but you still want to make a complete game and supplements. Do you do less setting stuff and more mechanics stuff or anything like that? Do you focus on lots more pre-made adventures and modules for people to run?
Last edited by Lokathor on Sat Apr 03, 2010 1:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Crissa »

Setting books like Germany or whatnot may actually sell better if they're basically written just like the original core book. That way people coming into the system can still buy one book, but be somewhere else. Setting books without the rules only sell to people who have the original rules in them.

Books like these were the second-best sellers in the d20 universe after the core three.

And this is how World of Darkness operated for a small period.

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Last edited by Crissa on Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Username17 »

Lokathor wrote:What does a game edition look like if you're not selling it? If it's just being done and put online for your friends and such to download, but you still want to make a complete game and supplements. Do you do less setting stuff and more mechanics stuff or anything like that? Do you focus on lots more pre-made adventures and modules for people to run?
If it's just you and maybe some friends, and you're just chipping in when you want to, you'll get out maybe one book a year. Try to make those books count I guess.

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Post by Lago PARANOIA »

What's the maximum length of time you can go between releasing any books at all before people start to lose interest in your project?

I think that your estimates were too harsh, personally. Video james and literature can go for about a year (or more) between extra products in the franchise are released without bleeding fans. Why do tabletop RPGs need a stricter schedule?

If I was in charge of a book franchise, I would focus on producing one or two books a year but making them mega-colossal ultra-special beautiful things that come with feelies, a bunch of beautiful artwork, and lots of fanfare. While releasing a bunch of supplements like Divine Power and Runners' Havens milks more money out of your fanbase, these books don't interest people who aren't already part of the franchise.

IOW, I can see someone who is not already hooked on the franchise to buy 3 doorstopper RPG books over a period of three years, but it's harder to see casual games plop down money for 8-12 of them over three years--especially if you have to sacrifice things like feelies and artwork and writing quality.
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In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
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Post by Username17 »

Lago wrote:I think that your estimates were too harsh, personally. Video james and literature can go for about a year (or more) between extra products in the franchise are released without bleeding fans. Why do tabletop RPGs need a stricter schedule?
No. They don't. Harry Potter goes years between a real new book, but it has trading cards, it has vibrating brooms to use as sex toys, and it has movies. Video Games have downloadable content and feelies and shit.

For Role Playing Game, you basically just have published content. Which means that you're keeping the game alive in the same way that you'd keep a comic book franchise alive. And that means that if you're going more than 3 months before a major release, people lose interest and cancel their subscriptions.

Remember also that some people don't consider the game mature enough to buy into until it has a certain number of core supplements. Remember all the hand wringing about how 4e D&D wasn't really ready for prime time because it only had 8 classes and they were all super limited? Yeah. Some people will not buy into D&D until there is a Bard class, and if between the release of the core book and the expansion they are waiting for they get distracted by a shiny object, they will never buy into your game at all. That's why the Shadowrun Magic supplement needs to come out fast, because people need their bonus magic traditions.

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Post by Kobajagrande »

What other merchandize did Jordan's Waste Of Time have?
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Post by ckafrica »

One of the OGL books released and a computer game are the 2 I know from WoT
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Post by IGTN »

FrankTrollman wrote:For Role Playing Game, you basically just have published content. Which means that you're keeping the game alive in the same way that you'd keep a comic book franchise alive. And that means that if you're going more than 3 months before a major release, people lose interest and cancel their subscriptions.
Can you keep the game alive by just publishing a bunch of adventure series in between books? Or do you have to have at least a big supplement every three months?

How did Dragon and Dungeon fit into this when they were print magazines?
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Post by Username17 »

So obviously, the world isn't just Shadowrun. It is but one of many different games that could fold up or grow up to take the mantle of "biggest RPG in print." Let's talk about World of Darkness for a moment.

An Edition of aWoD

nWoD is a failure. And lots of people speculate as to why. But I think the best way conceptualize it is that nWoD does not make good on the promises that it makes to the fans. And perhaps the most structurally compelling promise is that you would be able to Super Friends or Monster Squad the game ad have different monsters in the same team. That is, after all, why there is a separate World of Darkness game book and monster splat. But that shit doesn't work, like at all.

What is needed then, is to either go back to the oWoD model, where a single monster game book is playable internally without extraneous crap or to go to a fully-interactive model where all the monsters are genuinely intended to be played together. And obviously, aWoD goes for the second option. Indeed, all six monster types are playable as-is from the get-go right out of the original book. So what do you need? You don't need anything. Because it takes place present day, present time, the players can jolly well just fucking wikipedia some information about the real world and go with it. And yet, the world of darkness is compelling and full of characters and metaplot, and people want to read about it.

Event Books The Metaplot of the world of Darkness is incredibly important and is a major draw for fans. A major event book should come out every year to push things along.

Faction Books Major factions get major books. This has a lot of location stuff, personalities, history, and such. It also needs a hook.

Cult Books Each cult is going to get a small, paper back book. Like the old Vampire Clan Books. Each contains some metahistory and some sample resources and characters.

Alternate Campaigns One thing that people seem to really like out of the world of darkness for some reason, is games set in other time periods.

Power Creep Books These books are intended to add powers or swag to the game that causes power creep. These are subtly different from SR's bonus core books, because you don't even pretend that these are necessary or core. There's powerful stuff in them, and that alone causes people to want them.

Type Books nWoD has had essential failure with their clan books, but huge (relative) success with their base type books. Unfortunately, a type book will by necessity edge more towards the former than the latter, because it is entirely possible to play a Deep One out of the basic book without owning Leviathans: The Tempest. This is why each book needs to have a "hook" to get people to buy into it.

Supplements The nWoD "wikipedia compilation" supplements have to fucking end. Like, super hard. Books like Midnight Roads are an offense to gods and man. But there is still a need for shit like Antagonists.

The First Year
  • aWoD Core Book - the one and only. The Core Book.
  • Antagonists - Supplement. It has a bunch of villains and mook stats, and has several plot springboards for various plots involving various antagonists.
  • Year of the Dragon - the Event Book for 2012 (which is the Year of the Dragon). Involves a bunch of Asian magic and a plot by the Shattered Empire to raise Qin Shihuang Di and conquer the Earth.
  • The World Crime League - Faction book: WCL. Has tie-ins with the YotD material. Eight cities in the WCL get writeups.
  • Cult Book: White Lotus Tie ins with YotD? Absolutely, thanks for asking.
  • Vampire - Type Book: Vampires. It sells itself, and scarcely needs a special hook. People love Vampires.
The Second Year
  • Cult Book: Black Hand - Cult Book. Has a lead in for Deadly Times.
  • Deadly Times - Event book. Assassins run amok.
  • Cult Book: Stellar Oracles - Cult Book. Tie ins for Deadly Times.
  • Promethean - Type Book. You put Frankenstein's Monster on the front, and people will be all over that shiznit.
  • Marvelous Toys - Power Creep Book. Awesome crazy equipment. Laser mics, magic items, grenade launchers.
  • Cult Book: Hashshashin - Cult Book. Tie ins with Deadly Times.
  • The Camarilla - Faction Book.
The Third Year
  • Cult Book: Giovani - Cult Book. Lead in for Masks of Death.
  • Masks of Death - Event Book for 2014. It's like a year of Mictlan.
  • Whispers from Beyond - Power Creep Book. Orphic Magic. Stuff involving the dead. Frank discussions of playing a Ghost or Zombie.
  • Cult Book: Circle of the Crone - Cult Book
  • World of Darkness: Napoleonics Alternate Campaign: 1805. The Sabbat and Carthians are at war, and the Bumen Horde are still around.
  • The Carthians Faction Book. Lots of Napoleonics stuff.
  • The Sabbat Faction Book. Tie-ins for Napoleonics and the Cathians.
  • Cult Book: Black Spiral Dancers Cult Book.
  • Lycanthropes Type Book. Lots of tie-ins to both Masks of Death and the Napoleonics setting with the Bumen Horde.
The Fourth Year
  • Cult Book: Hollow Ones Cult Book. Lead in for Roots of Evil.
  • Roots of Evil - Event book for 2015. Corporate money comes head to head with an alien plant invasion.
  • Cult Book: Zeka - Cult Book
  • The Marduk Society - Faction Book. Also serves as the Evil Plant type book.
  • Witches - Type Book.
  • Cult Book: Glass Walkers - Cult Book.
  • Dreams May Go - Power Creep Book. Astral Magic
  • Cult Book: False Face Cult Book
The Fifth Year
  • Cult Book: Order Tremere
  • Hail to the King Event Book for 2016. King of Three Shadows goes apeshit. It's a year of Infernal power.
  • World of Darkness: Carthage An Alternate Campaign book set before the second Punic War. Romans, Greeks, Carthaginians. Troll Kingdoms. Openly used sorcery.
  • Cult Book: Church of Set Cult Book. Tie ins for Hail to the King and Carthage. Egyptians.
  • The King of Three Shadows Faction Book. Also serves as the Demon type book. Has rules for playing an Asura.
  • Cult Book: Madness Network Cult Book.
  • Written in Blood Power Creep Book: New uses for Infernal Magic.
  • Cult Book: Storm Lords Cult Book.
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Post by IGTN »

Would bundling cult books together or folding them in with other things increase or decrease sales?

That is, instead of having a small paperback book on the Storm Lords or whatever, you make that a few chapters of, say, the Leviathans book? That mixes things up so that the book isn't just for one player at the table. It also makes the book bigger, which might make people less likely to buy it if all they want are a few chapters, and probably cheaper than two separate books.
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