Stealth Buffing

[Kaelik]

Well shit, if he dropped his WEAPON he'll never be a threat again, even if he somehow was before.

But if the opponent is going to go through the trouble of using divinations, then they're going to initiate the conflict. Again, Attacker Advantage. And buff timers. Mmm, buff timers.

Roy, stop being stupid.

Tome Barbarians are immune to spells, and can rip your face off. Tome Samurai instantly kill things in one hit, especially as NPCs. And Magic Weapons aren't a big deal in Tome.

Seriously, stop playing your bullshit stupid game where you randomly shout your catch phrases even when not relevant.

[NineInchNall]

Opponents can hear of the party and start doing the divinations and such before fighting them first.

So we have enemy X, who hears about this group of adventurers that has been going around murdering people for their stuff. Now, Mr. X decides to research this group of adventurers and uses some divinations to figure out where they are and what kind of stuff they're capable of.

Given that this is D&D Land, though, there's more than one group of adventurers out there going around murdering people for their stuff. So Mr. X is worried about being murdered for his stuff and uses divinations like all the damn time to try to keep tabs on fifteen separate active groups of adventurers.

I'm not seeing how this gives him any sort of real advantage against any of those parties. Or were you assuming that Mr. X would Scry & Die the party?

[virgil]

Well shit, if he dropped his WEAPON he'll never be a threat again, even if he somehow was before.

Gee, of course, because the plot will never give the NPC swordsman a better sword.

But if the opponent is going to go through the trouble of using divinations, then they're going to initiate the conflict. Again, Attacker Advantage. And buff timers. Mmm, buff timers.

You're still talking out your ass here. I know about Attack Advantage. Foes with Attacker Advantage don't magically go away because you're ruthless.

Given that this is D&D Land, though, there's more than one group of adventurers out there going around murdering people for their stuff. So Mr. X is worried about being murdered for his stuff and uses divinations like all the damn time to try to keep tabs on fifteen separate active groups of adventurers.

Not terribly sure where you made the jump that because he researches one party he must research them all. Mr X can be a wizard who specifically has it out for the party. Maybe they killed his father, I don't care.

As for how it helps him to do these divinations; it helps the same way that Roy thinks that having a survivor tell the tale of how he got stabbed with a sword.

Hell, Roy's policy of slash-n-kill isn't even a guarantee against survivors. Someone could just grab a finger from one of the many corpses left behind and cast reincarnate. It's not even expensive, and a Totemist can do it at will. Unless of course Roy jumps in with the obvious behavior of eating everything.

[Orion]

Or Speak with Dead. Admittedly, you don't eat corpse,s you *burn* them.

On the other hand, there's an obvious reason for a villain to both use divinations on the heroes and not attack them: he doesn't think he'll win.

[Judging__Eagle]

You do both.

Burn, then eat, or feed to your Master of Snake Mountain's ooze pet of the day.

A summoning Ooze can be pretty brutal, if it's advanced high enough to cast a high level Summon Monster every round. Something like 30-50 elementals around you at all times if it is casting every round or every other round.

[RandomCasualty2]

The main issue with letting people run away is generally treasure. If they get away, so do all their minor magic rings, amulets or whatever else they happen to have. It's probably not even stuff the PCs will use, but it is stuff that they can sell.

Otherwise whether they get away or not is pretty irrelevant. The fact that you may have a recurring villain is no different from the idea that you may have new villains. In fact, if a recurring villain kinda sucked, you're probably better off letting him go so he may live to suck another day.

But so long as NPCs are walking treasure piles, PCs will always try to chase them down.

[Prak]

so have them surrender and offer their gear in exchange for their lives.

[RandomCasualty2]

so have them surrender and offer their gear in exchange for their lives.

Yeah I've actually had lots of PCs accept surrenders, but pretty much none will let enemies run away.

[Prak]

It's the more complete form of what I said before, it's because of how rewards work in D&D and Video Games. Gamers are conditioned to kill everything they face, because if anything escapes they don't get rewarded (in video games, anyway, you still get the xp if opponents flee in D&D, or should).

I think it might also be seen as a kind of "well, we already went through the trouble of losing (X resources), we might as well see this out to the end."

[virgil]

Well, I guess there has been the rare occasion where they accept a surrender for their stuff. But that's never enough. They'll either force them into temporary slavery or interrogate mercilessly, and if there's ever the hint of reluctance, murder. Sometimes they'll lie and murder afterwards anyway. The times they haven't murdered after a surrender, they maim (remove an eye, a limb, something).

[Prak]

...and some players just want to play evil vindictive bastards.

I can get online with that... I mutilated a varghoul my last character got attacked by...

[Crissa]

This is why alignment was added to the game as a player character constraint.

(I didn't say it worked, but it is the reason why.)

-Crissa

[Prak]

well, I was LE anyway...

but yes. Good aligned characters should accept surrender much more readily, should, ideally, be reluctant to kill, unless necessary, and shouldn't really extort prisoners... take their equipment, leaving them bare necessities is vaguely ok, but slavery and servitude should be right out.

[Roy]

Ya know, it's pretty fucking funny. Multiple people decided to start whining and flailing about me using my 'catch phrases' when I intentionally avoided doing this. Yes, I am doing it now and that's fully fucking intentional. So why did I do this? To prove it doesn't fucking matter how I talk, the dumbfuck squad will whine about it regardless.

And as this experiment is now concluded with the expected results, we return you to your usual anti Sundertard, "Stop sucking a barrel of cocks already you fucking fuckers." Roy. Because it makes no differences in the responses. But insulting the idiots at least once a sentence sure makes me feel better about their persistent dumbfuckery. ^.^

[Psychic Robot]

Not this shit again.

[Kaelik]

Ya know, it's pretty fucking funny. Multiple people decided to start whining and flailing about me using my 'catch phrases' when I intentionally avoided doing this. Yes, I am doing it now and that's fully fucking intentional. So why did I do this? To prove it doesn't fucking matter how I talk, the dumbfuck squad will whine about it regardless.

Roy, your catchphrases aren't just the stupid words you invent. They are the stupid arguments you use when they don't apply.

Claiming that Tome Samurai is worthless if he drops his +3 Sword is stupid, and you did it. It's stupid because he can kill you with a Masterwork Scythe, and it's stupid because he has a +X Sword as a class feature.

But none of that stopped you from claiming that a Samurai who loses a battle but escapes is suddenly terrible.

[TheFlatline]

Sometimes they'll lie and murder afterwards anyway.

If you have any lawful or good characters in the party they should have MAJOR problems with this.

But even that's okay. Whatever the PCs do, I can do better.

[ubernoob]

And as this experiment is now concluded with the expected results

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/It_was ... experiment

This is why people don't listen to you.

[Koumei]

The party I ran for on IRC accepted surrender/fleeing enemies. They even encouraged it, and tried to convince enemies to do so. As a result, they got the first boss as a piece of equipment: a Cloaker.

[Psychic Robot]

And as this experiment is now concluded with the expected results

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/It_was ... experiment

This is why people don't listen to you.

I was this close to posting that. And then you did it for me.

[Roy]

I'm ignoring most of this, as it's just people behaving in the predicted fashion. However...

And as this experiment is now concluded with the expected results

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/It_was ... experiment

This is why people don't listen to you.

Says the guy who practically invented 'It was a social experiment' as an argument.

But by all means, do keep up the lulz. Or go back to being on topic, instead of insulting me for every little thing. Either way I win, so I don't much care which you opt for.

[Kaelik]

I'm ignoring most of this, as it's just people behaving in the predicted fashion.

Yes. Exactly. I predictably negated your argument by demonstrating it was completely wrong and stupid using actual facts about the actual game.

And then you ignored the actual argument, because you are wrong, and that's what you do when you are wrong.

[Prak]

how about everyone stops the /b/ullshit and we get back to discussing games and not getting butthurt because someone was mean?

[Roy]

I'm ignoring most of this, as it's just people behaving in the predicted fashion.

Yes. Exactly. I predictably negated your argument by demonstrating it was completely wrong and stupid using actual facts about the actual game.

And then you ignored the actual argument, because you are wrong, and that's what you do when you are wrong.

O rly?

1: Tome Barbarians are immune to spells, and can rip your face off.

Hyperbolic bullshit, and you know it. Since when do I have to lecture people from the DEN on exactly how and why anti magic fields are not actual spell immunity? At least he doesn't screw himself over with it though.

2: Tome Samurai instantly kill things in one hit, especially as NPCs. And Magic Weapons aren't a big deal in Tome.

More hyperbolic bullshit, and also false (unless you're a dumbfuck who doesn't pack Heavy Fort). But since when do I have to lecture the DEN on why balancing around the idiot decisions = fail?

3: Claiming that Tome Samurai is worthless if he drops his +3 Sword is stupid, and you did it.

No, you are the one who claimed his sword is in fact irrelevant (merely a +3). Same goes for the magic item bit, as it's only the weaksauce items that are regarded as 'infinite' and you know as well as I do that a weapon that doesn't cross this line of relevancy is in fact irrelevant. Since when do I have to lecture the DEN on your weapon being level appropriate, at the least? And before you say 'Hurk durk he's low level, so a +3 sword is level appropriate' well guess what buttercup? That also means no Wish Economy yet, so that still brings us back around to 'he doesn't drop the fucking sword, or if he does you never have to worry about him again'.

So let's see, that's two instances of hyperbole and bullshit, and one instance of a straw man and bullshit. And that's your 'actual facts about the actual game'.

So yeah, behaving as predicted. You'll respond to this too.

[Orion]

Getting Major Fort is not actually easy or even always possible with Book of Gears.