The Story of BattleTech: What's wrong with it?

[Juton]

The TRO did in fact hit the stree... well, the internet, anyway. It has yet to be in dead-tree format, but who knows?

I like how you backpedal so well. Hard copy is for sale at GenCon.

[/img]

And yet you still have not PMd me for my addy. Don't want your apology in person?

Heh.

Cent13

@Centurion13, Kithkanan

Let's keep this thread on topic, if this is such a burning issue then you are free to bicker all you'd like on MPSIMS, but you are throwing off the signal to noise ratio here.

[Clutch9800]

I like the Comstar/WoB/Wolverine connection. It was well foreshadowed and was planned since the mid 90's.

I like how the Wolverine influence helped steer Word of Blake more towards fanatacism while Comstar drifted more towards secularism.

I like the fact that WoB has Comstar over a barrel in that they cannot reveal the Wolverine connection without engulfing the Inner Sphere in a war that will make the Jihad look like nothing.

I like the fact that Word of Blake did not plan the Jihad, and had planned on supporting the Star League 110%, to the point of becoming a part of the SLDF.

I like the fact that Wolverine influence has made the Word of Blake look upon the Clans as the ultimate enemy.

The Jihad came out of madness, that's obvious. The Jihad was a temper tantrum thrown by an emotionally immature and borderline sociopath Thomas Marik.

I don't like the Republic of the Sphere and the dark ages.

Clutch

[magnuskn]

Says the guy who began here posting incomprehensible BS gibberish.

Can you provide an example of this incomprehensable BS? Because most of my posts are full of wisdom.

Clutch

<sigh> ( Wastes xx minutes of his life sifting through the Shadowrun thread... )


Don't speak of honor or integrity in this mess. It has neither.

If that sodamite is your mole, welcome to him.

Fuck you Frank. Fuck you and the fucking horse you rode in on.

And you you Helvetic-ee-eye-ee-eye-oh motherfucker. Fuck you too.

---

Centuran you fucking fucker.

I like the cut of your jib.

Isn't this entire thread about moral relativism?

Who said Mr. Coleman couldn't take as much as his bank-card let him?

The Bankers didn't. The police don't.

Is it relative?

---


Absolutely.

You could do all kinds of good that way. Cure PTSD. Maybe Schizophrenia.

Lots of stuff.

You could also do much harm, but that's true of pretty much most breakthroughs.

---

And that's just from the first page of your posts. Lately you've gotten much more coherent.

[Clutch9800]

Says the guy who began here posting incomprehensible BS gibberish.

Can you provide an example of this incomprehensable BS? Because most of my posts are full of wisdom.

Clutch

<sigh> ( Wastes xx minutes of his life sifting through the Shadowrun thread... )


Don't speak of honor or integrity in this mess. It has neither.

If that sodamite is your mole, welcome to him.

Fuck you Frank. Fuck you and the fucking horse you rode in on.

And you you Helvetic-ee-eye-ee-eye-oh motherfucker. Fuck you too.

---

Centuran you fucking fucker.

I like the cut of your jib.

Isn't this entire thread about moral relativism?

Who said Mr. Coleman couldn't take as much as his bank-card let him?

The Bankers didn't. The police don't.

Is it relative?

---


Absolutely.

You could do all kinds of good that way. Cure PTSD. Maybe Schizophrenia.

Lots of stuff.

You could also do much harm, but that's true of pretty much most breakthroughs.

---

And that's just from the first page of your posts. Lately you've gotten much more coherent.

Eh,

I was upset and lashing out in anger. Mea Culpa.

Clutch

[Juton]

I like the Comstar/WoB/Wolverine connection. It was well foreshadowed and was planned since the mid 90's.

I like how the Wolverine influence helped steer Word of Blake more towards fanatacism while Comstar drifted more towards secularism.

I like the fact that WoB has Comstar over a barrel in that they cannot reveal the Wolverine connection without engulfing the Inner Sphere in a war that will make the Jihad look like nothing.

I like the fact that Word of Blake did not plan the Jihad, and had planned on supporting the Star League 110%, to the point of becoming a part of the SLDF.

I like the fact that Wolverine influence has made the Word of Blake look upon the Clans as the ultimate enemy.

The Jihad came out of madness, that's obvious. The Jihad was a temper tantrum thrown by an emotionally immature and borderline sociopath Thomas Marik.

I don't like the Republic of the Sphere and the dark ages.

Clutch

My secret hope of hopes is/was that once Battletech caught up to the Darkages we'd see an epic player event over years where the republic fell and players got to battle over which world went to which power. This is actually what they did for most of MW:DA, every week the fate of one planet was decided, its color changing on the big map. So 5 years ago it seemed possible, but now with the dearth of commandos and the events they run I don't think we'll see anything like this.

Maybe I should go reread the material on the Wolverines, I only skimmed it so I guess I missed some of the nuances. It's funny, I think we've seen a Kurita BBEG, a Steiner one, a Marik one, Laio is maybe just a medium bad guy, I really hope we see an evil Davion some day to complete the set.

[Stahlseele]

Well, Hanse "The Fox" Davion could be considered the Davion BBEG.
Straight down to Xanathos Gambit like thinking and sheming.
He actually started one of the succession wars on his own wedding i think . .

[magnuskn]

Quite honestly, I don't like anything of the storyline after the Grand Refusal. I don't think it'll be helpful to once again moan about the Jihad, Dark Age, etc.

As for the rules, I think they were fine before they introduced much of the silly-tech of the Field Manuals ( Improved Thunder LRM's? Really? Really, really? ) and the new tech also is superfluous. If I had my druthers, I'd take the new half cover rule from Total Warfare, the initiative rules from the Compendium and change up Clan pulse lasers to be not so overpowered, use Compendium rules for mechs on the ground with missing limbs and the Master Rules for the restand rules. And I'd re-do everything from the Grand Refusal onwards and declare the current continuity of that era a bad dream of Kali Liao on acid.

That'd revive my interest in BT. Otherwise, I am not seeing much future in the franchise.

And wasn't there that insane Davion prince in the MW:DA novels?

[Clutch9800]

Ohhh,

I think the most unspeakably evil faction in BattleTech is Comstar. Operation Holy Shroud undoubtedly doomed billions to an untimely death, through the assasinations of those who could have brought hope.

As far as "Silly-Tech", there's no reason that you "have" to use it. It isn't usually tournament legal, (if that's your thing), and you certainly don't have to allow it on your table.

It's all up to you.

Clutch

[Clutch9800]

<sigh> ( Wastes xx minutes of his life sifting through the Shadowrun thread... )

Not that I can give it back to you, I feel I must make that 20 miutes count for something with a rebutal.


Don't speak of honor or integrity in this mess. It has neither.

If that sodamite is your mole, welcome to him.

Fuck you Frank. Fuck you and the fucking horse you rode in on.

And you you Helvetic-ee-eye-ee-eye-oh motherfucker. Fuck you too.

---

Ah yes. Context is very important. I was talking in this post about David Stansel-Garner. For those that don't know, DSG was the "office manager" for CGL. He and I have never gotten along, but we have banded together under flags of convinience in the past. He uncovered the malfeasance at CGL back in November of oh-nine. He sat on it. In January he offered Coleman 50K for the whole kit and kaboodle. When Coleman told him to take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut he backed off. Then, right before the licenses were up for renewal, he leaked everything to his sock puppet Frank and there began the "Shadowrun Situation". All this in an effort to put CGL in a grave and get the licenses.

The Helvetecii thing was just a dig at that Swiss guy who's moniker escapes me at the moment.

Truth be told, I don't hold any of this against Dave. It was a hell of a play and it almost worked. Eh, it's just business.


Centuran you fucking fucker.

I like the cut of your jib.

Isn't this entire thread about moral relativism?

Who said Mr. Coleman couldn't take as much as his bank-card let him?

The Bankers didn't. The police don't.

Is it relative?

---

I was probably drunk when I posted this. I don't remember the context, so I have no idea what it means.


Absolutely.

You could do all kinds of good that way. Cure PTSD. Maybe Schizophrenia.

Lots of stuff.

You could also do much harm, but that's true of pretty much most breakthroughs.

---

I'm pretty sure this one was about "re-wiring" the human brain. I think if you could do that, it could do a great amount of good. It just couldn't be done except in the direst circumstances.

See? It's all about context!

Clutch

[magnuskn]

Ohhh,

I think the most unspeakably evil faction in BattleTech is Comstar. Operation Holy Shroud undoubtedly doomed billions to an untimely death, through the assasinations of those who could have brought hope.

As far as "Silly-Tech", there's no reason that you "have" to use it. It isn't usually tournament legal, (if that's your thing), and you certainly don't have to allow it on your table.

It's all up to you.

Clutch

The new tech from Total Warfare is tournament-legal and, IMO, superfluous. But, eh, what do I know. The game has been moving away from me for since the Grand Refusal. Operation Holy Shroud happened under the old ComStar, so the Wobbies are bound up directly in it. ^^

The problem with the quotes was that most of them sounded as if you were drunk when writing them. Anyway, let's end this. If you and Centurion know each other, you can probably hash out whatever problems you have with each other without some random German dude running interference.

[Clutch9800]

It is superfluous. Most of the recent TRO’s are too. That said, this isn't 40K. You actually can have a one from column A and two from column B. There’s no problem with that approach to the rules so long as the entire table agrees.

Clutch

[Clutch9800]

My secret hope of hopes is/was that once Battletech caught up to the Darkages we'd see an epic player event over years where the republic fell and players got to battle over which world went to which power. This is actually what they did for most of MW:DA, every week the fate of one planet was decided, its color changing on the big map. So 5 years ago it seemed possible, but now with the dearth of commandos and the events they run I don't think we'll see anything like this.

Yeah, that interactive chart of the Inner Sphere was the cats ass.

Large scale events are hard to coordinate. They're fun to coordinate, but they're hard. I'm not sure there is a "dearth" of Commandos, I'm reasonably sure that there are more now than were when we were running large scale events.

The problem is that when I quit, they turned the Commandos into a fan club. Not that it wasn't always a fan club, but at least when I ran it it was a fan club that actually produced something. Now there is no real application process, and they let anyone in. They don't (seem to) coordinate events. They just let Commands run games in thier basements with thier butt buddies and call it an event.

Fuck it. I'm taking the Commandos back.

Stand by for heavy rolls.

Clutch

[Juton]

I was still functioning under the assumption that a commando has to run 6+ events a year to stay a commando. There is a Shadowrun Commando that runs that many in south/eastern ontario, but I've only heard of one Battletech event in this calendar year for a region of 5 million people, that's not good coverage. So perhaps I should say a dearth of active commandos.

[Centurion13]

@Centurion13, Kithkanan

Let's keep this thread on topic, if this is such a burning issue then you are free to bicker all you'd like on MPSIMS, but you are throwing off the signal to noise ratio here.

Aye. Will do.

Cent13

[Centurion13]

[Anyway, let's end this. If you and Centurion know each other, you can probably hash out whatever problems you have with each other without some random German dude running interference.

It's over already, happened seven years back when Clutch was still head of the Commando organization and a senior enlisted sailor in the Navy. I and my buddy were also sailors in the Navy, on a different command and a few paygrades below Clutch. We were avid players of BT, which was fun and helped us keep our heads together while gone ten months to sea.

The man is forgiven. The issue is laid to rest. Again, my apologies to all readers.

Cent13

[Clutch9800]

Clutch was still head of the Commando organization and a senior enlisted sailor in the Navy.

Not that I have anything against the Navy, but I was career Coast Guard. I retired as a Master Chief.

Clutch

[Juton]

So three years is hardly a necro here...

CGL is basically skipping the darkages in the timeline. Even if the fans are divided on whether the Jihad and Darkages where a mistake, the writers seem to think so because they are just flying past them.

For reference under FASA/Fanpro the writers took 12 years to move the timeline from 3050 to 3067. From around 2009-2014 the timeline will be going from 3067 to 3250. It's not that everything is hunky dory in the universe, lots of wars and intrigue, it's just that they don't seem interested in fleshing it out like they used to. The game year of 3250 is being used as a big reset button to simplify the technology and I would imagine the political landscape to make it more accessible.

So in a year or so we'll get to see what CGL does to Battletech with a clean slate. After some of their latest Shadowrun releases I look forward to the new era of Battletech with the same sunny optimism that I reserve for D&D next.

[Stahlseele]

so, will it actually go back to big stompy robots, or will they keep with infantry?
Will there be more Three-Legged-Freaks . . err Mechs?
Will LAMs make a comeback?

[Juton]

so, will it actually go back to big stompy robots, or will they keep with infantry?
Will there be more Three-Legged-Freaks . . err Mechs?
Will LAMs make a comeback?

Largely they will go back to big stompy robots. I'm sure they will include infantry and vehicles, but not in the starter box.

They've acknowledged three legged mechs but they haven't made any new ones.

LAMs have already made a comeback, there was a kickstarter for new mech molds not to long ago. They have made new official designs and have rewritten the rules for them. Again they won't be in the new box set but will probably crop up again somewhere down the line.

[Stahlseele]

Wonder how.
They in universe destroyed the last Factory capable of making LAMs and had the plans destroyed to boot . .

[name_here]

This is battletech. There could be some Star League designs under a rock somewhere that get dug up and dusted off.

[Korgan0]

The WoB also developed a couple of LAM's, although I'm not sure if they were ever deployed.

[Previn]

I think Dark Ages is pretty much a low intensity boring area to flesh out, and it's covered by the WizKids stuff that they won't retcon... because screw you, that's why.

LAMs are perfectly capable of being created. Wobbies had 3 design up and in combat, there are certainly still a few of the old non-WoB LAMs kicking around the IS if you wanted to dig hard enough, and the clans have know how, just not the desire to build them. The IS probably has the know how, just not the support/desire for them.

[Juton]

There was a novel with set before the Jihad with Jade Falcon LAMs. Each had two pilots, one for piloting in fighter mode and one for mech mode. Also they uncovered a new memory core, the New Dallas core, during the Jihad and that's how we got the royal units.

LAMs where cool to me in my preteens, but as I got older they seem sillier and sillier. We have them because of Macross's legacy, but since the Macross unseen are still unseen there is literally no point in keeping them around.