Barbarians that don't suck...

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WPharolin
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Barbarians that don't suck...

Post by WPharolin »

Hey guys whats up? First time poster long time lurker. I've been thinking about revamping the pathfinder melee classes in my homebrew campaign for a few months now and something somebody said here on the forums gave me an idea, they said something to the effect of "wouldn't it be cool if barbarians could rage so hard that it stormed?" I don't remember exactly what was said or who said it. Anyway this is what I've been working on and I could use some opinions. I have a tendency to overlook things so be brutal. Thanks in advance :)

Barbarian

HD: d12
Skill Points: 4 + Int modifier
Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Climb (Str), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge: Nature (Int), Perception (Wis),
Sense Motive (Wis),Stealth (Dex) , Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str)
BAB: Good
Saves Fort: Good, Ref: Poor, Will: Poor

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Barbarians are proficient with simple weapons, martial weapons,
light armor, medium armor and with shields (except tower shields).


1. Battle Hardened 1, Rage, Fast Movement +10, Ancestral Path
2. Rage Power, Uncanny Dodge, Indomitable Will +1
3. Battle Hardened 2, Trap Sense +1
4. Rage Power
5. Battle Hardened 3, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Indomitable Will +2
6. Rage Power, Trap Sense +2
7. Battle Hardened 4, Greater Rage, Fast Movement +20
8. Rage Power, Indomitable Will +3
9. Battle Hardened 5, Trap Sense +3
10. Rage Power
11. Battle Hardened 6, Tireless Rage, Indomitable Will +4
12. Rage Power, Trap Sense +4
13. Battle Hardened 7
14. Rage Power, Indomitable Will +5, Fast Movement +30
15. Battle Hardened 8, Trap Sense +5, Unyielding
16. Rage Power
17. Battle Hardened 9, Mighty Rage, Indomitable Will +6
18. Rage Power, Trap Sense +6
19. Battle Hardened 10, Never Say Die
20. Furious Rage, Rage Power, Indomitable Will +7

Battle Hardened - (stole the name from Frank...he can sue) The Barbarian gains DR 1/-. This DR increases by 1 for every odd level in the barbarian class.

Rage- As the pathfinder rules for rage except you do not stop raging when unconscious or dying. (no more auto death cause you got put to -1 hp)

Fast Movement - As pathfinder rules for fast movement except it increases to +20 at 7th level, and +30 at 14th

Ancestral Path - Barbarians blessed by their ancestor spirits granting them access to certain powers and abilities based on the choice of their ancestral path and their Barbarian level. Barbarians are granted a power 1st level and every other level in the barbarian class, 3rd, 5th, 7th, etc., after that. Unless Stated otherwise all powers and effects granted by the Ancestral Path are supernatural effects.

To be honest I haven't finished all the paths yet so there is only this one to use as an example. I originally thought of using the Ancestral Path's as a replacement for the (mostly) shitty rage powers. However I finally decided I would leave them both in cause, well, why the fuck not?
  • Path of Storms
    1st Endurance – The barbarian gains endurance as a bonus feat even if he does not meet the prerequisites

    3rd Thunderous Blow – A foe struck by a barbarians thunderous blow must succeed on a fortitude saving throw or be deafened for 1d4+1 rounds. The saving throw DC is 10 + the barbarians BAB + Strength mod. This attack is a standard action that can be used 3 + Cha mod times per day.

    5th Whirlwind Attack – The barbarian gains whirlwind attack as a bonus feat even if he does not meet the prerequisites.

    7th Ally of the Wind Spirits – You may Air Walk as the spell once per day per and an additional time per day every other level beyond 7th. You caster level for this effect is equal to your BAB.

    9th Cyclone of Blades - Whenever a barbarian scores a critical hit while raging he may make an immediate whirlwind attack. This ability cannot be triggered by triggered by the bonus whirlwind attack you got from this ability. (It can't trigger itself)

    11th Blizzard Strike – You make an attack with you weapon as a standard action that produces the effect of a Cone of Cold spell. However instead of a 60ft cone you may choose to either do the normal cone shape or a 120ft line. Your caster level for this effect is equal to your BAB. You may use this ability once per day and one additional time per day for every 2 levels beyond 11th.

    13th Whirlwind Storm – At 13th level or higher whenever a barbarian whirlwind attacks while raging he gains a +5 ft reach and may attack each enemy within reach. He deals an additional +3d6 lightning damage plus an additional +1d6 at 15th, 17th, 19th, etc. while using whirlwind attack. This bonus damage is not multiplied on a critical hit. Any creature who is critically hit by a barbarians whirlwind attack must make a fortitude saving throw or by stunned from one round. DC = 10 + Barbarians BAB + STR mod.

    15th HELP!!! I don't know what to put here for a granted power/ability from this level in the path. Any suggestions would be appreciated!

    17th Storm of Wrath – When you enter a rage your fury is such that you summon a Storm of Vengeance, as per the spell. This is a free action done as part of entering a rage. The Storm of Vengeance lasts for the duration of your rage or up to 10 rounds whichever comes first. Your caster level for this effect is equal to your BAB. The effect is centered on you and you are immune to its effects. You may use this ability once per day.

    19th SEEK ADVICE!! SEE LEVEL 15's awesome power of win called HELP!! and then repeat the process.
Uncanny Dodge - As pathfinder rules

Indomitable Will - As pathfinder rules except the bonus starts at +1 at 2nd level and increases by 1 for every 3 levels in the barbarian class. (meaning you still get +4 at 11th level like you normally would)

Trap Sense - As pathfinder rules

Endurance - A barbarian of 3rd level gains endurance as a bonus feat

Improved Uncanny Dodge - As pathfinder rules

Greater Rage - As pathfinder rules but acquired sooner.

Tireless Rage - As pathfinder rules but acquired sooner

Unyielding - Whenever a barbarian of 15th level or higher is under 25 hit points he doubles the amount of DR he has from Battle Hardened, and gains a +2 bonus on all saving throws.

Mighty Rage - As per pathfinder rules but acquired sooner

Never Say Die - Whenever a barbarian of 19th level or higher is dropped below 0 hit points while raging he may make a fortitude saving throw to delay the effects of death/dying/unconscious. If he succeeds he may act for the remainder of the round as normal. He may make a saving throw at the beginning of every round regardless of how low his HP gets. The DC = Total number of negative hit points. (ever wanted to be the guy who still manages to instill fear in the heart of your enemies despite the fact that you have a great axe embedded in your skull, several arrows in your heart slashes, bruises, and gashes galore, and a severed arm ...that you are now using as a club??)

Furious Rage - (Shitty name I know) +10 to Strength and Constitution when raging, and +5 will save while raging.


EDIT: Moved Storm of Wrath(storm of vengeance) to 17th level, clarified Ally of the Wind Spirits.
Last edited by WPharolin on Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
Zinegata
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Post by Zinegata »

Some context needed: What sort of game will this guy be operating under? Pathfinder? 3.5 D&D? A mix?

Because how good or bad the abilities are will depend in large part to the context.
WPharolin
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Post by WPharolin »

Zinegata wrote:Some context needed: What sort of game will this guy be operating under? Pathfinder? 3.5 D&D? A mix?

Because how good or bad the abilities are will depend in large part to the context.
Ah derp, silly me. This is a pathfinder game and though I will be featuring many house made rules we won't be extending far outside of the core book and the advanced players handbook. I will be working on the fighter, ranger, bard, monk, and rogue next, but I wanted to get some thoughts on this before I went to far. Anyway the goal is to get the barbarian to be on par with the wizard, druid, summoner, cleric, and witch.
ubernoob
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Post by ubernoob »

Serious question: Why not use the Races of War barbarian as your base? You could just modify a few of the class features to get your storm thing whenever.

Also: Storm of vengance isn't actually that great. You could give it out earlier than level 19 (a level hardly anyone plays at). Other thematic things would be lightning bolt, wind wall, and teleport (seriously, lightning zaps down, picks you up, and puts your party somewhere else by striking down again).
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For Valor
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Post by For Valor »

Where's flight?
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WPharolin
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Post by WPharolin »

ubernoob wrote:Serious question: Why not use the Races of War barbarian as your base? You could just modify a few of the class features to get your storm thing whenever.
No reason really, I just like making shit up.
ubernoob wrote:Also: Storm of vengance isn't actually that great. You could give it out earlier than level 19 (a level hardly anyone plays at). Other thematic things would be lightning bolt, wind wall, and teleport (seriously, lightning zaps down, picks you up, and puts your party somewhere else by striking down again).
Yeah I thought the same thing initially but I kept second guessing myself. I have a player in my group who is one of those "2e gives me orgasms" guys and his idea that fighters SHOULD suck at high levels has infected me a bit. I will move it down to 17th level to match the druid.
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Post by ubernoob »

WPharolin wrote:
ubernoob wrote:Serious question: Why not use the Races of War barbarian as your base? You could just modify a few of the class features to get your storm thing whenever.
No reason really, I just like making shit up.
Well, the RoW barbarian is both simpler and more effective. Like, by a huge margin. I'm big on simplicity in class design, so I highly encourage you to do that instead of putting a bunch of fiddly little abilities that slow down gameplay (seriously, whirlwind attack on a crit? wtf?)
ubernoob wrote:Also: Storm of vengance isn't actually that great. You could give it out earlier than level 19 (a level hardly anyone plays at). Other thematic things would be lightning bolt, wind wall, and teleport (seriously, lightning zaps down, picks you up, and puts your party somewhere else by striking down again).
Yeah I thought the same thing initially but I kept second guessing myself. I have a player in my group who is one of those "2e gives me orgasms" guys and his idea that fighters SHOULD suck at high levels has infected me a bit. I will move it down to 17th level to match the druid.
You could seriously put it at TENTH level and it wouldn't even be a big deal. Storm of vengance is not a very good spell.
WPharolin
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Post by WPharolin »

Well, the RoW barbarian is both simpler and more effective. Like, by a huge margin. I'm big on simplicity in class design, so I highly encourage you to do that instead of putting a bunch of fiddly little abilities that slow down gameplay (seriously, whirlwind attack on a crit? wtf?)
I know it is. I appreciate your advice and I agree but my group tends to like shit like this so I'm trying to keep them in mind so they have as much fun as they can at my table. I could use the RoW barbarian and they would probably think it was pretty cool but knowing them they would enjoy having the "fiddly little abilities" more. And so...
You could seriously put it at TENTH level and it wouldn't even be a big deal. Storm of vengance is not a very good spell.
I will seriously consider that.
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Post by ubernoob »

WPharolin wrote:
Well, the RoW barbarian is both simpler and more effective. Like, by a huge margin. I'm big on simplicity in class design, so I highly encourage you to do that instead of putting a bunch of fiddly little abilities that slow down gameplay (seriously, whirlwind attack on a crit? wtf?)
I know it is. I appreciate your advice and I agree but my group tends to like shit like this so I'm trying to keep them in mind so they have as much fun as they can at my table. I could use the RoW barbarian and they would probably think it was pretty cool but knowing them they would enjoy having the "fiddly little abilities" more. And so...
Well, I suggest you take off the conditions and just hand out abilities. I have literally never seen a time in play where someone would want a whirlwind attack AFTER they scored a crit. Ever. A crit pretty much always will drop the opposition if you're a melee guy and if you're a melee guy you're not going to get surrounded unless you actually have whirlwind attack or a similar ability. Even a 30% chance isn't a good enough chance to let yourself get into position for a whirlwind attack because 70% of the time you just straight up get ganked by the rest of the guys the next round.

TL;DR- Drop the qualifiers and just hand out real abilities.
You could seriously put it at TENTH level and it wouldn't even be a big deal. Storm of vengance is not a very good spell.
I will seriously consider that.
Not that I'm saying tenth level is the level to get it at, but yeah. It's not even a big deal.
Last edited by ubernoob on Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
koz
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Post by koz »

Tenth level is actually about right for storm of vengeance.

But I do have to echo that the baseline barbarian as written in Pathfailure isn't a very good place to start working from. Any abilities that rely on fiddly conditions, point-tracking or anything similar (which Pathfailure has a huge fetish for) are probably not being helpful. Complexity for its own sake is not beneficial or a good design principle.

What I would suggest is first asking yourself "what do I want this class to do?". Then, once you have the answer to that question, design the class to do exactly that, with its own skeleton. Then, after you've done that, we can help you refine things a bit.
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WPharolin
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Post by WPharolin »

TL;DR- Drop the qualifiers and just hand out real abilities.
Yeah that ability does suck (I knew that it did when I wrote it). Like a said I haven't really fleshed out the ancestral paths very well. With this particular path I very quickly (and clumsily) filled in the blanks so I would have some kind of example to show at least vaguely where I wanted to go with it. I will probably change it to something like "can use whirlwind attack as a standard action instead of a full-round action"

Not that I'm saying tenth level is the level to get it at, but yeah. It's not even a big deal.
I know what you meant. I was thinking 13 or 15. Or possibly keeping it higher level but removing the need for concentration all together. Thoughts?
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Post by ubernoob »

WPharolin wrote:
TL;DR- Drop the qualifiers and just hand out real abilities.
Yeah that ability does suck (I knew that it did when I wrote it). Like a said I haven't really fleshed out the ancestral paths very well. With this particular path I very quickly (and clumsily) filled in the blanks so I would have some kind of example to show at least vaguely where I wanted to go with it. I will probably change it to something like "can use whirlwind attack as a standard action instead of a full-round action"
That would be better.
Not that I'm saying tenth level is the level to get it at, but yeah. It's not even a big deal.
I know what you meant. I was thinking 13 or 15. Or possibly keeping it higher level but removing the need for concentration all together. Thoughts?
If you took away the need for concentration, I could see 13 being about right.
WPharolin
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Post by WPharolin »

But I do have to echo that the baseline barbarian as written in Pathfailure isn't a very good place to start working from.

What I would suggest is first asking yourself "what do I want this class to do?". Then, once you have the answer to that question, design the class to do exactly that, with its own skeleton. Then, after you've done that, we can help you refine things a bit.
Yeah my group is pretty hung up on pathfinder right now. I was excited about it at the start but am disliking it more and more. However I always enjoy playing with my group regardless of system so if they wanna have more pointless things to track then so be it.

But i do take your meaning however and I think removing some of the relic features from the original pathfinder version should solve the problem. Like the Rage Powers, and trap senses. For my barbarian I wanted for him to remain the I HIT SHIT REALLY HARD AND DON"T EVER FUCKING DIE character while adding a versatility that could define how this was done, thus the ancestral paths.
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Post by Judging__Eagle »

Since you're obviously not capable of reading things Ubernoob posted, I'll perform some Mortal Glyphomancy, the Copypasta.

Yes, the format does suck; this was from before we were on phpBB, and back when we were on BBoy. The server change messed with a lot of forum code.

Barbarian
"My name is Sharptooth of the Wolf Tribe. Your women, lands, and riches are mine."

Playing a Barbarian: Playing a Barbarian is actually very easy. In general, you hit things, and they fall down. A Barbarian's action in almost any circumstance can plausibly be "I hit it with my great axe!" As such, a Barbarian character can be a good method to introduce a new player to the game or kill some orcs when you've had a few glasses of brew.

Alignment: Every alignment has its share of Barbarians, however more Barbarians are of Chaotic alignment than of Lawful Alignment.

Races: Anybody can become a barbarian, and in areas with little in the way of civilization, a lot of people do.

Starting Gold: 4d6x10 gp (140 gold)

Starting Age: As Barbarian.

Hit Die: d12
Class Skills: The Barbarian’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge: Nature (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).
Skills/Level: 4 + Intelligence Bonus
BAB: Good (1/1), Saves: Fort: Good; Reflex: Poor; Will: Poor

Level, Benefit
1 Rage, Fast Healing 1
2 Rage Dice +1d6, Combat Movement +5’
3 Battle Hardened
4 Rage Dice +2d6, Combat Movement +10’
5 Sidestep Hazards , Fast Healing 5
6 Rage Dice +3d6, Combat Movement +15’
7 Great Blows
8 Rage Dice +4d6, Combat Movement +20’
9 Great Life
10 Rage Dice +5d6, Combat Movement +25’, Fast Healing 10
11 Call the Horde
12 Rage Dice +6d6, Combat Movement +30’
13 Watched by Totems
14 Rage Dice +7d6, Combat Movement +35’
15 Primal Assault, Fast Healing 15
16 Rage Dice +8d6, Combat Movement +40’
17 Savagery
18 Rage Dice +9d6, Combat Movement +45’
19 One With The Beast
20 Rage Dice +10d6, Combat Movement +50’, Fast Healing 20

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Barbarians are proficient with simple weapons, martial weapons, light armor, medium armor and with shields.

Rage (Ex): When doing melee damage to a foe or being struck by a foe, a Barbarian may choose to enter a Rage as an immediate action. While Raging, a Barbarian gains a +2 morale bonus to hit and damage in melee combat and may apply any Rage Dice he has to his melee damage rolls. He also gains a +2 to saves, a -2 to AC, and he gains DR X/- with “X” being equal to half his Barbarian level +2 (rounded down). For example, a 1st level Barbarian has DR 2/- while Raging and a 10th level Barbarian has DR 7/- while Raging.
While Raging, a Barbarian may not cast spells, activate magic items, use spell-like abilities, or drop his weapons or shield. Rage lasts until he has neither struck an enemy for three consecutive rounds nor suffered damage from an enemy for three consecutive rounds. He may voluntarily end a Rage as a full-round action.

Fast Healing: Barbarians shrug off wounds that would cripple a lesser man, and have learned to draw upon deep reserves of energy and stamina. At 1st level, they gain Fast Healing 1. At 5th level this becomes Fast Healing 5, Fast Healing 10 at 10th level, Fast Healing 15 at 15th level, and Fast Healing 20 at 20th level. This healing only applies while he is not raging.

If a Barbarian ever multi-classes, he permanently loses this ability. A multiclass character does not gain this ability. A character with 4 or more levels of Barbarian gains this ability even if multiclassed.

Rage Dice: While Raging, a Barbarian may add these dice of damage to each of his melee attacks. These dice are not multiplied by damage multipliers, and are not applied to any bonus attacks beyond those granted by Base Attack Bonus. These dice are not sneak attack dice, and do not count as sneak attack dice for the prerequisites of prestige classes or feats.

Combat Movement: While Raging, a Barbarian moves faster in combat, and may add his Combat Movement to his speed when he takes a move action to move.

Battle Hardened: At 3rd level, a Raging Barbarian’s mind has been closed off from distractions by the depths of his bloodlust and battle fury. While Raging, he may use his Fortitude Save in place of his Will Save. If he is under the effects of a compulsion or fear effect, he may act normally while Raging as if he was inside a protection from evil effect.

Sidestep Hazards(Ex): At 5th level, a Raging Barbarian learns to sidestep hazards with an intuitive and primal danger sense. While Raging, he may use his Fortitude Save in place of his Reflex Save.

Great Blows (Ex): At 7th level, a Raging Barbarian’s melee attacks are Great Blows. Any enemy struck by the Barbarian’s melee or thrown weapon attacks must make a Fort Save or be stunned for one round. No enemy can be targeted by this ability more than once a round, and the save DC for this ability is 10 + half the Barbarian’s HD + his Constitution modifier.

Great Life (Ex): While Raging, a 9th level Barbarian is immune to nonlethal damage, death effects, stunning, critical hits, negative levels, and ability damage (but not ability drain).

Call the Horde(Ex): An 11th level Barbarian becomes a hero of his people. He gains the Command feat as a bonus feat, but his followers must be Barbarians. In campaigns that do not use Leadership feats, he instead gains a +2 unnamed bonus to all saves.

Watched by Totems (Ex): At 13th level, a Barbarian may immediately reroll any failed save. He may do this no more than once per failed save.

Primal Assault (Ex): At 15th level, a Raging Barbarian’s may choose to radiate an effect similar to an antimagic field when he enters a Rage, with a caster level equal to his HD. Unlike a normal antimagic field, this effect does not suppress magic effects on him or the effects of magic items he is wearing or holding.

Savagery (Ex): At 17th level, a Raging Barbarian may take a full round action to make a normal melee attack that has an additional effect similar to a mordenkainen’s disjunction. Unlike a normal Imordenkainen’s disjunction, this effect only targets a single item or creature struck.

One With The Beast: At 19th level, a Barbarian may no longer needs to be in a Rage to use any Barbarian ability.
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