GNS Theory: Good, Bad, or Ugly
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Actually, after doing a little digging, the following two games came up as Forge-inspired:
Burning Wheel (and therefore Mouse Guard)
Reign
Burning Wheel most folks now is a LotR-style world with some interesting melee mechanics. Reign is a fantasy game where you run a kingdom or faction, though I haven't really plumbed its depths that closely - and I really should, considering my own game-design interests.
Both are certainly more meaty than 3:16.
Burning Wheel (and therefore Mouse Guard)
Reign
Burning Wheel most folks now is a LotR-style world with some interesting melee mechanics. Reign is a fantasy game where you run a kingdom or faction, though I haven't really plumbed its depths that closely - and I really should, considering my own game-design interests.
Both are certainly more meaty than 3:16.
Oh, Mouse Guard comes from there? Wow, I suppose it's true that roses grow where shit is piled up. I have only heard good things about that game - from people who play actual games rather than fapping on about GNS theory.
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.
Mouse Guard is like Burning Wheel except streamlined, which is good because BW gets very clunky. The universal conflict system (like rock-paper-scissors, but it applies to combat, sieges, chases, debates, and what have you) is interesting, and Mouse Guard is a property well-suited to having an RPG in it's image.
The biggest downside of the game (from my quick reading of my copy) is the "check" system, in which players and GMs have long, alternating "turns": so, you go through a forest, and that entire bit is the GM's turn, then get to town, and that's the player's turn, for example. Whenever the GM puts an obstacle in your path (generally anything you have to roll for), you get a check. You spend checks during the Player turn to initiate actions like buying a new weapon or meeting a friend. It's... odd. Your ability to do things after that point are limited in a manner I don't fully understand; I would have to give it another read-through.
The biggest downside of the game (from my quick reading of my copy) is the "check" system, in which players and GMs have long, alternating "turns": so, you go through a forest, and that entire bit is the GM's turn, then get to town, and that's the player's turn, for example. Whenever the GM puts an obstacle in your path (generally anything you have to roll for), you get a check. You spend checks during the Player turn to initiate actions like buying a new weapon or meeting a friend. It's... odd. Your ability to do things after that point are limited in a manner I don't fully understand; I would have to give it another read-through.
The creator of Reign and the creator of Burning Wheel had this (paraphrased) bit to say of Ron Edwards, the founder of The Forge (from the rpg.net thread about "winning"):
"He can at times be abrasive and annoying, but he also was/is a loud and strong encourager of realizing self-published RPGs who deserves accolades and credit for that effort."
I think the Reign creator put it something like 'grabbing the lapels of the home-designer/enthusiast community and telling them: YOU CAN FUCKING DO THIS, SO DO IT!'.
"He can at times be abrasive and annoying, but he also was/is a loud and strong encourager of realizing self-published RPGs who deserves accolades and credit for that effort."
I think the Reign creator put it something like 'grabbing the lapels of the home-designer/enthusiast community and telling them: YOU CAN FUCKING DO THIS, SO DO IT!'.
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TheFlatline
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In other words, some idiot played Power Grid and realized that there's a genre of board games that function with theme merely tacked on as an advertising ploy and are almost complete abstract beyond the window dressings, and thus decided that RPGs should follow suit?PhoneLobster wrote: Yes, GNS tells us if you make a "Game-ist" system you should shun all "Simulationist" junk to make some sort of GNS purity wank-fest.
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TavishArtair
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GNS theory was supposedly behind one the important changes to the mentality of the design of D&D as well. I find this hard to believe because most of the changes originate with 3.0 D&D and that would seem to predate the forge and its crazy spewings.
However if they are actually behind the best idea 3.0 had then hurray for them.
The idea, quite simply is that D&D does not have to be particularly historically accurate or physically realistic.
This was honestly a huge change, it allowed for the introduction of things like double weapons while dropping the two dozen pollarms that the game had previously discussed in detail from the rulebook. It also allowed a change to many rules like drowning/suffocating, death and dying, and pretty much everything else so that everything was pretty much determined by the system and not some random gygaxian fuck you rule that says that humans can only hold there breath for 5 minutes but elves can hold there breath for 10 days because tokien's ghost had D&D bent over the table.
Historical accuracy was a monkey on the back of 2e D&D that provided little value and created LOTS of fights.
How the forge/GNS supporters can justify taking credit for the "change" is beyond me though.
Seriously, if you needed to write a paper on D&D/Rpgs over the past decade then tracing the impact of the collectable card game genre, the rise of super cheap plastic figurines, and the dominace of the "German School" of board game design over the past decade and a half are all signifcantly more relevant than forge wankery.
However if they are actually behind the best idea 3.0 had then hurray for them.
The idea, quite simply is that D&D does not have to be particularly historically accurate or physically realistic.
This was honestly a huge change, it allowed for the introduction of things like double weapons while dropping the two dozen pollarms that the game had previously discussed in detail from the rulebook. It also allowed a change to many rules like drowning/suffocating, death and dying, and pretty much everything else so that everything was pretty much determined by the system and not some random gygaxian fuck you rule that says that humans can only hold there breath for 5 minutes but elves can hold there breath for 10 days because tokien's ghost had D&D bent over the table.
Historical accuracy was a monkey on the back of 2e D&D that provided little value and created LOTS of fights.
How the forge/GNS supporters can justify taking credit for the "change" is beyond me though.
Seriously, if you needed to write a paper on D&D/Rpgs over the past decade then tracing the impact of the collectable card game genre, the rise of super cheap plastic figurines, and the dominace of the "German School" of board game design over the past decade and a half are all signifcantly more relevant than forge wankery.