The Shadowrun Situation

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 6:48 am

adamjury wrote:
Otakusensei wrote:Oh God, who told Dave to bring his rape-face to the interview?
Dave is a talented creator and a great person. I know there's been teh dramaz with him and TGD users in the past -- but he doesn't deserve to be treated like that, dude.

Really? Because everything I know about him says he's a douchebag. He was warned in private about some of the things Jason was doing that are now part of the historical record. He responded by reporting the "traitors" to Jason Hardy and getting them fired. When this was discussed openly, he did a driveby smear campaign backed up by a "think of the children!" plea right here on this board. You can go look at it again if you want, he comes off as shrill, hypocritical, and insincere. There is a reason he was booed off the stage here and hasn't come back.

He may be a talented writer, there are certainly some segments of War! that are written by a talented writer (although there are three other writers and most of the book is not well written, so I couldn't say either way). But he is certainly a lazy writer, because no one on War! did due diligence as far as researching the subject material.

I can say without reservation that David A. Hill is a lazy weasel who whines like a little girl when people do things to him that are a small fraction of what he does to other people. He does not deserve to work in this industry. And he does deserve to be made fun of repeatedly. And since he has his own name on google alerts and a thin skin: David A. Hill Jr. is a bitch who deserves to have bad things said about him in public. Period.

-Username17

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 7:34 am

Update: Actually, with a little digging, I found out what parts David Hill wrote, or at least part of it. David Hill's email address matches the forum name on the official board of the "unnamed freelancer" who took credit for the Auschwitz material. That shit is poorly written, unresearched, and in incredibly poor taste. His justifications for it are inane and don't actually make it not offensive.

So not only is he an egotistical fuckwad, his writing is bad. Not just in the "the prose does not hold together well" sort of way - but in the "he wrote a nonsensical adventure about shooting the ghosts of concentration camp victims to steal their magic treasure" kind of way. As in, having written that actually makes you a bad person.

Looking back into the wayback machine, we get this from David Hill:

David Hill wrote:Brandie,

I wholeheartedly sympathize. It's one thing to accuse a developer of corruption or incompetence, but it's another to make up a longwinded conspiracy where a number of honest people work to knowingly commit plagiarism of a mediocre author. My reputation goes far beyond Shadowrun writing, and I'm getting people from other companies I've worked for saying, "David, who is this guy? And why does he have such a violent hard-on for you? You'd never plagiarize in a million years." And I'm tired of getting that shit. I feel you.

Because you know, he was talking about Corp Guide. Where it is actually a matter of public record that Bobby's work was plagiarized. That's not even up for discussion. So if he thinks that was an accusation leveled at him, that means he was taking credit for work that was publicly demonstrated to be uncredited derivative work.

Which means that he's a much worse person than I thought.

-Username17

TheFlatline · Post by **TheFlatline** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:11 am

FrankTrollman wrote:Update: Actually, with a little digging, I found out what parts David Hill wrote, or at least part of it. David Hill's email address matches the forum name on the official board of the "unnamed freelancer" who took credit for the Auschwitz material. That shit is poorly written, unresearched, and in incredibly poor taste. His justifications for it are inane and don't actually make it not offensive.

Ah... so the one part everyone more or less agreed was pretty disgusting and in poor taste.

Awesomesauce.

Fucks · Post by **Fucks** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 9:35 am

FrankTrollman wrote:Now this is funny. Some of the people apparently got so angry at how poorly compiled War! was that they started making their own book. I know this particular phase of anger well, I went through exactly that when Unwired came out. There is a certain brand of Stockholm Syndrome that affects game fans, where they assume that anything "official" has to be somehow of higher quality than something written by a random fan. And of course, this is not true. All the people who write for all the game companies are random fans. Random fans who get paid for writing, but not paid very much.

And yet, it crops up again and again. How many times when bringing up a problem with some game system or another has someone challenged you with something to the effect of "Oh yeah? It's not like you could do better!"? It has happened to me many times.It will happen to me many more. It's a weird feeling, since of course in my case I actually have. But there is always a niggling temptation to show them all and write a better version of whatever it is that is pissing you off.

Certainly there is a part of me that wants to help these guys. I wanted there to be a worthwhile military sourcebook myself. I even suggested one, back in the day. But of course, Dumpshock banned me forever, for realz this time, because of the controversy of this very thread and my association with it. So there is absolutely no chance whatsoever of me sticking my oar in and providing assistance of any kind on that community projects thread.

-Username17

Stahlseele is active on both boards, though, and may act as a messenger. Or at least shoot hermit an email and invite him to come over here.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:42 am

*nods*
sure can do.

Kot · Post by **Kot** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 11:46 am

Stahlseele wrote:http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=1858.30
*snickers*

C'mon, not funny. My bad. I really didn't mean anything bad. And yeah, it's a stupid meme...

hermit · Post by **hermit** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 12:03 pm

Hey guys. I'm the angry person who wants to write their own book. Actually, the project is in the early planning stages, and I'm VERY open to help, especially with rules, which I am aware are not my strongest point.

Being banned from Dumpshock is not an issue, as I was considering a move anyway. I'm still unsure about where though (I could ask if we could converge on a friend's fairly dead German forum, which has another SR military project going anyway), but I'm sure one thread at Dumpshock will not be sufficient. I need sub-forums for the sections and whatnot. In the meantime, I'll set up a project thread in the Den.

Any takers?

TheFlatline wrote:
FrankTrollman wrote:Update: Actually, with a little digging, I found out what parts David Hill wrote, or at least part of it. David Hill's email address matches the forum name on the official board of the "unnamed freelancer" who took credit for the Auschwitz material. That shit is poorly written, unresearched, and in incredibly poor taste. His justifications for it are inane and don't actually make it not offensive.
Ah... so the one part everyone more or less agreed was pretty disgusting and in poor taste.

Awesomesauce.

And that's their best writer? Whoa. Also, I seem to have been right in detecting jerkass vibes throughout the writing of WAR.

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 12:46 pm

hermit wrote:Hey guys. I'm the angry person who wants to write their own book. Actually, the project is in the early planning stages, and I'm VERY open to help, especially with rules, which I am aware are not my strongest point.

Being banned from Dumpshock is not an issue, as I was considering a move anyway. I'm still unsure about where though (I could ask if we could converge on a friend's fairly dead German forum, which has another SR military project going anyway), but I'm sure one thread at Dumpshock will not be sufficient. I need sub-forums for the sections and whatnot. In the meantime, I'll set up a project thread in the Den.

Any takers?

I'd start by asking around here, if I were you. If this board won't work for some reason, I've got a webspace which I'm barely using, and I'd be happy to host your spite-fueled creativity.

You may also want to look into a wiki instead of a board (again, assuming this one won't do), especially for a collective writing effort. If you're starting your own, I've had good luck with Dokuwiki. It's easy, stores everything in plaintext flat files, and has basic access control designed in. YMMV.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 1:14 pm

Kot wrote:
Stahlseele wrote:http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=1858.30
*snickers*
C'mon, not funny. My bad. I really didn't mean anything bad. And yeah, it's a stupid meme...

oh noes!
i think this is hillarious!
but then, i have been banned in several places on several occassions because of my sense of humor ^^

Kot · Post by **Kot** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:07 pm

Heh. Well, good that at least one person seems to enjoy it. Well, it seemed a good idea at the moment. It wasn't, still. And i don't really want to end up like Clockwork...

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:18 pm

Kot wrote:Heh. Well, good that at least one person seems to enjoy it. Well, it seemed a good idea at the moment. It wasn't, still. And i don't really want to end up like Clockwork...

The Mormon thing is way crazier than you know and way crazier than even I can say without naming sources. Every time I think I have reached the bottom of the rabbit hole of Mormon crazy I find more Mormon and more crazy. At first I thought it was just Randall using his Mormon faith to justify standing by his friend instead of standing by the people his friend had ripped off for real money. But no. It goes deeper than that. Way deeper.

Special discussions of Mormon Business Practices. Temple meetings about how IMR should be organized. It gets really insane. So if you mention the Mormons in pretty much any context related to Shadowrun right now, you can expect two things:

To everyone who has been following things, it will be hilarious.
Randall Bills, Loren Coleman, Jason Hardy, and Fisty over at Dumpshock will all play the religious persecution card and flip the fuck out.

That's just reality as things stand right now. I wish it were otherwise, but it is not. Anyway, next up pursuant to some requests, I will go location by location and drink heavily enough to comment on all five of the "Hot Spots".

-Username17

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:32 pm

And we'll make sure to get it out there for everybody to see ^^

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:14 pm

Man the boogie man Frank Trollman frightens them so bad.

Every thread where anyone criticizes them, the mods come in and whine about Frank Trollman posting.

They even do it after the magic trollman monster is confirmed as Stahlseele by another mod.

hermit · Post by **hermit** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:16 pm

So IMR is basically a Mormon sect? What the FUCK?

Frank, good thing you live where you live, then. Best place for drinks, save maybe for Ireland. Beers better, IMHO. It's certainly stronger.

And thanks for the hotspots!

They even do it after the magic trollman monster is confirmed as Stahlseele by another mod.

LOL. Stahlseele is Trollman. We're all Trollman! It's really just evil Frank and Ancient's feud. It's not about product quality or anything. All else is LIES LIES LIES LALALALALALA!

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:32 pm

*nods*
sowing paranoia is just such fun ^^

Kot · Post by **Kot** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:34 pm

Oh, c'mon. The SR4 official forum isn't about that. Official posts are a rare sight. Its mostly just people discussing SR4.

Vnonymous · Post by **Vnonymous** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:50 pm

I think they're starting to twig to the fact that all the posts by anyone even remotely associated by TGD are by a single person with a well connected network of proxies.

Kot · Post by **Kot** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:58 pm

You don't even need that. How many good proxies can you find on google in a minute? More than you think.
Anyways, censorship never works. And multiple login disorder isn't a good thing either. It dilutes the point. And i wouldn't mind seeing Frank's posts on the forums, as probably most users. Critics are almost always a good thing*.

*I don't think anyone there is suicidal.

crizh · Post by **crizh** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:03 pm

It is all getting a bit Spartacus.

Maybe I should get an 'I'm Frank Trollman' t-shirt made up. Or start selling them on-line...

As an aside from the CGL/IMR/Mormon soap opera I haven't seen any comment on the direct fire grenades rules in War!

Seems to me that it is a much needed fix to grenade accuracy that fails to address the same issues with rockets/missiles. A tankbuster warhead is worthless if you can't score a direct hit with it. The new 'hang-time' rules for indirect fire seem like they might raise some comment also.

Any thoughts?

Kot · Post by **Kot** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:08 pm

Woah. I just got the whole Mormon thing. Weeeird. I didn't know that. Strange coincidence.

hermit · Post by **hermit** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:24 pm

Whoa. Talk about pitfalls.

And i don't really want to end up like Clockwork...

What did they do to him?

crizh · Post by **crizh** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:43 pm

Kot wrote:Woah. I just got the whole Mormon thing. Weeeird. I didn't know that. Strange coincidence.

Wow!

Did you really post that Mormon comment on the official board not knowing that almost everyone at IMR is a Mormon?

Cool.

hermit · Post by **hermit** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:53 pm

Are the authors of War also Mormons? And is Filamenta Whatsitsface a guy or a gal? I have never seen that name before.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 6:25 pm

I am not aware of any of the freelancer's religions, whether they be Mormon or otherwise. Filamena Young is female.

hermit · Post by **hermit** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 6:33 pm

Okay, thanks.