I always thought claims that this would happen were just...

[Slade]

people here are just NOW finding out about the Fortune Cards?

For some Wizards Play Network programs aimed at experienced players, Fortune Card purchase will be a requirement to participate

make sure you amplify your nerdrage accordingly to the quoted portion here.

Yes, let's take this out of context:
It's important to point out that Fortune Cards are not a requirement for D&D play; they are an enhancement that simulates blind luck, the winds of fate, or divine influence. They have a thematic place in your D&D games. And they are an enhancement to the gameplay experience – they can be added or removed from a game when desired. Some players may show up to a game without any Fortune Cards, and that’s OK – they can still play D&D alongside those players that have them in action. For some Wizards Play Network programs aimed at experienced players, Fortune Card purchase will be a requirement to participate, but our broadly-appealing programs like D&D Encounters will feature their use without such a requirement. Once you start using them, you’ll see that they actually help to focus player actions and provide interesting tactical opportunities that you may not have considered previously.

See, reading is fundamental to understand context.
Don't let hate blind you to the actual words.

[Juton]

Forcing 'Experienced Players' to cough up $2 to play in a game still sucks.

[DragonChild]

The problem is that this shit is randomly packaged. Even if I wanted to buy a complete set, I couldn't. And the mechanics, looking at the cards they're using to advertise, are obviously ass. I could do better and cheaper with a sharpie and a pack of index cards.

[DragonChild]

Forcing 'Experienced Players' to cough up $2 to play in a game still sucks.

Most of those type of games have a cost in them to play, anyway.

However, pretending these AREN'T a power boost for people who shill out is just stupid.

[shadzar]

@Juton:

$4 per booster not 2, while unexperienced players dont have to purchase the cards i guess but can play int he same events?

people here are just NOW finding out about the Fortune Cards?

For some Wizards Play Network programs aimed at experienced players, Fortune Card purchase will be a requirement to participate

make sure you amplify your nerdrage accordingly to the quoted portion here.

Yes, let's take this out of context:
It's important to point out that Fortune Cards are not a requirement for D&D play; they are an enhancement that simulates blind luck, the winds of fate, or divine influence. They have a thematic place in your D&D games. And they are an enhancement to the gameplay experience – they can be added or removed from a game when desired. Some players may show up to a game without any Fortune Cards, and that’s OK – they can still play D&D alongside those players that have them in action. For some Wizards Play Network programs aimed at experienced players, Fortune Card purchase will be a requirement to participate, but our broadly-appealing programs like D&D Encounters will feature their use without such a requirement. Once you start using them, you’ll see that they actually help to focus player actions and provide interesting tactical opportunities that you may not have considered previously.

See, reading is fundamental to understand context.
Don't let hate blind you to the actual words.

i didnt take anything out of context, i jsut removed the parts i wasnt talking about. i was ONLY talking about the part where experienced players would be required to purchase the cards for those events aimed at the experienced players.

maybe YOU should try reading again. you are welcome to talk about the other shit there all you want, but it has nothing to do with what i was talking about.

i quoted everything i was talking about, so for your next reading attempt as you look back at what you quoted from me i will set the DC as 2, but you will likely ever only be able to roll a natural 1.

[ubernoob]

I could do better and cheaper with a sharpie and a pack of index cards.

This. This is the problem.

[Archmage]

i didnt take anything out of context, i jsut removed the parts i wasnt talking about.

AHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

*cough, wheeze*

I just couldn't help myself.

[shadzar]

i didnt take anything out of context, i jsut removed the parts i wasnt talking about.

AHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

*cough, wheeze*

I just couldn't help myself.

i am not disputing anything else in the passage, so i didnt take anything out of context. the context was the part thrown in about required purchase, and that wa the ONLY bit with that mentioned in it.

so when talking about what will be a required purchase, all other portions of the passage as moot unless they somehow dispute the section that says it will be a required purchase for the "event" type that it states it will be a required purchase for.

The rest of the passage makes no mention of the required purchase for that type of "event", therefore has no context about it.

I said "the sky is blue", you are claiming i said "the clouds are blue", when i never mentioned the clouds as they are IN the sky, NOT the sky.

[K]

I could do better and cheaper with a sharpie and a pack of index cards.

This. This is the problem.

+1

[TheFlatline]

I could do better and cheaper with a sharpie and a pack of index cards.

This. This is the problem.

Pretty much.

My question is: Is there a single deck everyone draws from? Or do you build your own deck?

If it's the first, then you have the shitty situation where you have to buy a bunch of boosters (I'd figure 7-8) to gain enough cards where everyone could draw a card once per encounter and not see repeats every other battle. Which is an expensive solution.

If it's the second (and I believe there is), that's even more ass-tastic. The page referenced commons, uncommons, and rare abilities. Which means that you can literally buff your character by giving money to WOTC.

Now, years ago this was a joke. It even made it into Violence: The RPG, where you could send money to the designer and buy experience and other benefits. Apparently now however it isn't a joke.

It seems like someone in charge of D&D is blindly grasping at aspects of other successful systems like Magic.

[Josh_Kablack]

What I don't like about this is that 4e is already of system of extremely short-lived fiddly little bonuses where players interrupt each others turns so much that who goes next gets confusing. The two sample cards look like they will add even more of this.

What I fear about this is that the release of larg-ish randomized card sets to tack on to large feat lists and very large power lists will inevitably lead to brokenly good combos which will necessitate more errata.

What I don't mind so much about this is the blatant money-grubbing. Really it's the same general idea as 3e splatbook power creep, just broken down into very small units with a smaller unit cost and a random distribution. It does come off as a bit pathetic, but so do the current sales numbers of tabletop RPG products. If this helps keep RPGs afloat, I'll deal with it.
That said, I have my doubts it will achieve that. In an antagonistic CCG, your opponent has reason to point out that you are using a proxy or a forgery. In a co-operative RP game, your fellow players have reason to help you fake that card that let's them reroll a save. You'll only ever need to move up to good forgeries if you are big into RPGA type events.

What I actually like about this is the visual/tactile component. Throwing a card with artwork on it down on the table is a bit less abstract than rolling on a table and leaves the effect visible for future reference by anyone who wasn't paying attention the first time.

What I might like about this is using them not as a player-based arms race, but as a pavlovian conditioning tool for the MC to use as a player reward. If a player does the sort of thing you, as MC want to steer your game towards (whether that's deep in character immersion, witty one-liners, or heroic sacrifices), toss them a card as an immediate bonus rather than waiting for end of scene or end of session intangible XP rewards - and players will get the hints much faster.

[TheWorid]

I have a Dork20 deck. It's a about the size of a two normal decks of cards, and you're supposed to give out a few to everyone at the start of each game (there are some simple rules for it). The effects are actually pretty good (unlike what we've seen on these cards) including getting +10 on a particular skill check, automatically succeeding on a save, making an NPC badly want an item you're selling, or making the MC tell you about something you missed.

It's basically like these Fortune cards, except that it doesn't suck because there's only one deck to buy, it's shared by the players, and the effects are generally better and more interesting that the examples we've been given.

Also, it has John Kovalic illustrations, so the cards are more entertaining to look at.

[fectin]

I have a Dork20 deck. It's a about the size of a two normal decks of cards, and you're supposed to give out a few to everyone at the start of each game (there are some simple rules for it). The effects are actually pretty good (unlike what we've seen on these cards) including getting +10 on a particular skill check, automatically succeeding on a save, making an NPC badly want an item you're selling, or making the MC tell you about something you missed.

It's basically like these Fortune cards, except that it doesn't suck because there's only one deck to buy, it's shared by the players, and the effects are generally better and more interesting that the examples we've been given.

Also, it has John Kovalic illustrations, so the cards are more entertaining to look at.

I think I found the important part.
I've seen similar things with third party critical hit/critical fumble decks. Usually, I'm opposed to critical fumbles, but with an interesting enough deck, they're much more tolerable.

[Lago PARANOIA]

For a project like this to work, it would:

A) Need to be integrated into the game at the very start. That way people don't feel like it's a money-grubbing move from WotC or a mechanic shoehorned in to steal money from players.

B) Need to have big enough effect that changes the tactical situation. Stuff like 'a +1 to hit for each bloodied ally for one round' does not cut it. Something like 'an ancient acid fog rune glows and the battlefield is covered with tiny clouds of acid fog of size 2x2 that the DM places randomly. At the start of each character's turn, they must make a DC 15 reflex save. If it succeeds, they may move 1 square. If they are in any of the acid fogs 1 after this reflex save, they take 2d6 acid damage. The fog provides total conceal. The clouds uniformly move in a direction determined by a 1d4 roll (N, S, E, W) and they all move 1d4 squares per round.. If it is completely blocked by an obstruction 10' x 10' tall (such as a solid brick wall, but not a fence or a small enough tree) (due to not doing enough damage to destroy the obstruction instantly), it stays where it is without compressing or mixing with another acid fog. It dissipates after ten rounds.'

That would be worth paying attention to.

C) Need to be able to be used without the stupid-ass card system. This assauges players' concerns that their precious TTRPG isn't being infected by good ideas. Mind, WotC might want to sell packs of cards anyway but they should only be used as an enhancement to a system that can work without them. Like miniatures.

It's like WotC doesn't know how insular and fantarded their own audience is. I mean, just look at this damn thread.

[RobbyPants]

Even if it's integrated from the start, it can still look like a money grab. I think you're right that it looks less like that, but people would still balk.

[shadzar]

T$R made a lot of freaky shit that a lot of people ended up buying and wanting that wasnt needed. Lots of it was core, Players packs, players screens. These D&D accessories arent where they really messed up because the novelty of the items. The novelty wore off but these ancillary products could be used for other things sometimes.

Player's Pack contents:
3 miniatures for the class group
player screen showing quick table in a fold-up
map pad
dice
pencil
little guide to painting the minis
inner compartment with a lid to hold thing still
all in a little plastic suitcase type thing

truely it was a novelty product and the value for the contents was more than the price.

These fortune cards have no novelty as they are just looking like CCG. Even if incorporated from the beginning it doesnt mean it will work for the most of D&D like it does (does it?) for Gamma World.

SJG is making booster packs for Munchkin, 15 cards for $3~5, but the catch is all packs are the same. nothing is random, pretty much a 15 card set to expand existing Munchkin games.

No matter how you do it, when you CAN sell an entire set, the randomized factor where things don't need to be random will always be seen as a money grab by intelligent people. When you further make it a requirement to play for something that never needed it and still doesn't...it just looks downright dumb.

[ScottS]

They look similar to the LFR rewards cards they used to give out (pretty sure they stopped and that these are replacing them). The problem I had with them in play is that 4e is already easy mode enough, especially LFR, so the cards were just pointless and only served to keep people from getting butthurt when they missed a roll by 1 or 2, and/or to let the party blow through encounters (which I guess kept the average session time below 4 hours).

[shadzar]

They look similar to the LFR rewards cards they used to give out (pretty sure they stopped and that these are replacing them). The problem I had with them in play is that 4e is already easy mode enough, especially LFR, so the cards were just pointless and only served to keep people from getting butthurt when they missed a roll by 1 or 2, and/or to let the party blow through encounters (which I guess kept the average session time below 4 hours).

LFR isnt run by WotC anymore, so they really cant have a say in that, but the "experienced players will be required to purchase for event aimed at them" is the part that makes this a real WHAT?!?! moment.

if they were jsut amde and sold and let people decide if they wanted this type of product and WotC was willing to let it fail so they would learn, then so be it. Forcing it on people in order to recoup some or all of the investment in design and development of them is just plain stupid.

Games Workshop used to boast how they ignored fans ideas and complaints about parts of the game and how it doesnt work and the feedback was just ignored. Then they would wonder why the products werent selling. They still dont listen, but pay closer attention to the market and make the things that people want to use and play with rather than things people dont want to use (Squats). WotC is taking 300 steps back by trying to ignore consumer response to the product and jsut force it on people.

That is why those old "rewards cards" ended because players didnt find them all that interesting, and DMs got tired of dealing with them. Didnt you have to tear up one after use? Wouldn't it be funny is these fortune cards were ironman* style as well in order to keep product selling?

*Magic the Gathering had a little known playstyle called ironman where when a card was sent to the graveyard...well you didnt have a graveyard, instead the card was torn up and thrown away after being used be it a counterspell, black lotus, rock hydra, dual land, etc.

[ScottS]

I only saw/played with the 4e version, but the cards were never destroyed. You went into a game with a "stack"/mini-deck, the cards got tapped as you used them, and your whole collection was your "sideboard" between sessions.

[shadzar]

I only saw/played with the 4e version, but the cards were never destroyed. You went into a game with a "stack"/mini-deck, the cards got tapped as you used them, and your whole collection was your "sideboard" between sessions.

This was during 3rd events...I jsut recall the card stated to tear it up after use...sorta so you couldnt keep using the bonuses game after game and session after session if you only were awarded one.