What if Evocation didn't suck?

[the_taken]

A rock is an element, chlorine is an energy.

[User3]

1177775384[/unixtime]]A rock is an element, chlorine is an energy.

That statement makes my brain hurt.

[Catharz]

1177760715[/unixtime]]

A necromancer does spooky damage, an evoker does energy damage, a conjurer does elemental damage...

What's the difference between energy and elemental damage?

Energy damage is arbitrary and without proposed source, and therefore almost always makes sense (because when you say 'I'm making a big glob of acid and throwing it at you,' it makes sense that the glob does acid damage).

Elemental damage is arbitrarily assigned energy damage, which is usually a load of bullshit (like rocks dealing acid damage).

[Brobdingnagian]

Or steam dealing Fire damage.

[the_taken]

So steam is an energy. The same energy as that which is created by a Fireball spell.

[Arturian]

But that would also require water to create the steam...yeah, I know it's magic and all, but the "Steam" isn't the energy the same as "Fire" isn't the energy in the Fireball spell..."Heat" is the energy

[User3]

1177947961[/unixtime]]But that would also require water to create the steam...yeah, I know it's magic and all, but the "Steam" isn't the energy the same as "Fire" isn't the energy in the Fireball spell..."Heat" is the energy

QFT

Also, Steam is the interaction between water and positive energy. Which makes it dealing fire damage really fucking weird.

[Brobdingnagian]

I don't write the rules. I just make fun of them.

[MrWaeseL]

1177947961[/unixtime]]But that would also require water to create the steam...yeah, I know it's magic and all, but the "Steam" isn't the energy the same as "Fire" isn't the energy in the Fireball spell..."Heat" is the energy

What?

[RandomCasualty]

1177948624[/unixtime]]
Also, Steam is the interaction between water and positive energy. Which makes it dealing fire damage really fvcking weird.

Yeah, their elemental connection planes are stupid.

Steam should be fire + water.

Positive energy + water would be blood, since it's the combination of life and water.

[CalibronXXX]

1177979400[/unixtime]]

1177948624[/unixtime]]
Also, Steam is the interaction between water and positive energy. Which makes it dealing fire damage really fvcking weird.

Yeah, their elemental connection planes are stupid.

Steam should be fire + water.

Positive energy + water would be blood, since it's the combination of life and water.

The quasi elemental plane of steam is on the border of the positive energy plane and the elemental plane of water(I guess). The elemental plane of water and the elemental plane of fire don't share a border(probably).

[tzor]

One of the problems is the definition of positive/negative energy as it pertains to four elemental theory. Heat in and of itself should be "fire" and thus steam should be logically fire and water. (But that's wrong too, steam is fluffy water and thus should be "air" and water.) Ack, elemental theory is all "Greek" to me. (By the later argument ice should be water and earth.)

Classical Greek elemental theory would have a fifth element known as ether. Positive and negative energy should really correlate to the ether, polarized in order to provide happy opposites to the universe even though there is no 6th regular polyhedral to map to the negative energy. (Gosh so negative energy becomes a d10? I guess so. Or a d30. Insert evil laughter)

OK back to the four points, fire opposes water so no para. Earth opposes air so no para. There should be only four para based off of the four primary elements (water/earth, water/air, fire/earth, fire/air). I'm not sure how you should properly integrate positive and negative energy into the classical elements so those planes just seem odd.

[RandomCasualty]

1178032143[/unixtime]]One of the problems is the definition of positive/negative energy as it pertains to four elemental theory. Heat in and of itself should be "fire" and thus steam should be logically fire and water. (But that's wrong too, steam is fluffy water and thus should be "air" and water.) Ack, elemental theory is all "Greek" to me. (By the later argument ice should be water and earth.)

Yeah, I can see water + air being steam too. Though you can also just fit mist in there too.

[Catharz]

The whole idea of elemental opposition is dumb (remember that the inner planes don't have any motives or ideals?).

[tzor]

1178034593[/unixtime]]The whole idea of elemental opposition is dumb (remember that the inner planes don't have any motives or ideals?).

Agreed. The whole notion was to flatten the elemental planes into a two dimensional model so it could be easily visualized in the AD&D PHB. In fact I think they are better represented in three dimensions as points on a d4. But then you needed to throw in the fourth dimension to explain positive/negative and you are already into hyper dimensions before you throw in the relation to the prime.

[Catharz]

1178038669[/unixtime]] But then you needed to throw in the fourth dimension to explain positive/negative and you are already into hyper dimensions before you throw in the relation to the prime.

But positive and negative planes are dumb too, so getting rid of them is fine.

Having an elemental plane of death/evil when evil and dead people have nothing to do with the inner planes makes about as much sense as something which makes no sense at all.

[Brobdingnagian]

Hmm...

Scrap positive and negative energy planes. Create an 'ether' plane.

...

I think this gives me an idea for the contructs thread...

[User3]

would that be 'etheral' plane?

[Cielingcat]

Speaking of which, is there any real difference between the Ethereal and Astral planes beyond the bullshit Planescape stuff?

[Crissa]

Ice is Water + Air.

You blow on your hot drink to cool it off. Cold weather comes on the wind. Etc.

-Crissa

[RandomCasualty]

1178048260[/unixtime]]Speaking of which, is there any real difference between the Ethereal and Astral planes beyond the bullshit Planescape stuff?

Well, the ethereal kind of lets you see the material plane, so you can get a glimpse of what's on the other side. In the astral you're just floating in silver space. Also the ethereal plane is somewhat slower as far as travel goes.

[Brobdingnagian]

Space Pirates are from the Astral Plane!

[tzor]

1178048260[/unixtime]]Speaking of which, is there any real difference between the Ethereal and Astral planes beyond the bullshit Planescape stuff?

In the original 1st Ed cosmology, the etheral plane was a parallel plane with the prime material. The asteral plane was not parallel with the prime but intersected the prime. Thus the etheral acted as a fuzzy side stepping of the prime material and the astral was the generic gateway to the various alignment planes.