Josh_Kablack wrote:Necromancy: 100 gp gets you a centaur skeleton which can carry 300 lbs at a speed of 50' or 900 lbs at a slower speed and never needs to stop for meals, naps or old age. And anyone who can cast Animate Dead can control at least 5 of them. You can get more and/or spend less if you're willing to work with the slower and weaker human skeletons. While it's a rules exploit that allows the instantaneous transit down a bucket brigade the "skeletal railway" that tosses crates or palanquins overhand from one skeleton to the next is actually really cool in a creepy way.
Isn't it kind of wasteful to turn 5th level clerics into Teamsters?
On the other hand, for the same cost as 90 centaur skeletons, you can have a wondrous item that casts Animate Dead 1/day and will turn literally any schmuck with 20HD worth of pack animal corpses into a teamster for free! (more likely you charge them for the privileged).
Last edited by Sashi on Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
FrankTrollman wrote:There are no rules for domesticating the tendridiculous. Also the amount of time it takes to grow the things is unknown. It could be growing like kudzu, but it could also be growing like a bristlecone pine. Seriously, we have no information on the economics side.
There are rules in the Arms and Equipment guide, under "monster mounts". It's a DC 27 to train them, a seed costs 3k on the open market, and they cost 2k gp to train. It is true that we have no idea how long they take to grow, though their ability to regenerate 30% of their body mass every 1d6 minutes says to me that they grow about as fast as you can feed them.
FrankTrollman wrote:As for what the most "economical" is, I suspect it really would be something with a "-" for intelligence. Probably a giant beetle or a skeleton of some kind. Because those things just do their jobs and don't require any "training" time on a beast by beast basis. Constructs would totally win, except that the gp costs on them are insane. It would take a very long time to pay off the construction costs for a stone horse. Being untiring and immortal, they probably would pay themselves off eventually, but the turnaround time for skeletons is much lower.
That's true. My issue with using undead is that you only get so many of them per person, which means that your economy is limited by your manpower rather than your money. The Animate Dead 1/day is better, but still not spectacularly effective. You still have to have your 20HD of pack animal corpses, and your skeletons are not significantly better than the original horses. It just means that you can sustain a normal horse-powered or bison-powered economy more cheaply. I don't think that you get significantly more capacity or the ability to haul significantly larger loads. On the other hand, I can definitely see railways with the engines replaced by hundreds-strong teams of skeletal horses, so there is that.
angelfromanotherpin wrote:I've been through the A+EG pdf on word searches for 'blink dog' 'dimension door' and 'saddle,' and I can't find this item you mention.
It actually doesn't exist, at least in the A⪚ look on page 81, under the heading "Blink Dog, Riding". You get halfway there pretty easily, though, so it's easy to misremember.
Arms and Equipment Guide wrote:If a blink dog's rider wears a ring of blinking, the dog and ring attune to each other through a sympathetic magical effect so that dog and rider blink in unison. No effect has been discovered that allows a blink dog to teleport with its rider using dimension door.
Last edited by Vebyast on Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
DSMatticus wrote:There are two things you can learn from the Gaming Den:
1) Good design practices.
2) How to be a zookeeper for hyper-intelligent shit-flinging apes.
It seems obvious to me that Giant Vermin are found where animate ore and energy stones are. Whether they are normal vermin who eat the anima and become huge, losing their minds in the process, or whether they are constructs of pure anime copying the shapes of nearby arthropods is unclear to me.
I like that idea, especially for the dwarven civilization. The dwarves are probably the ones that need the major freight network, too, since they're the ones that shuttle anima, coal, ore, stone, and metal around in huge quantities.
DSMatticus wrote:There are two things you can learn from the Gaming Den:
1) Good design practices.
2) How to be a zookeeper for hyper-intelligent shit-flinging apes.
I hadn't that that far. My actual thought process was more like "sending 3rd level PCs into an anima mine. What has a CR of 1 or less and could live in a hole in the ground?"
How would the dwarves get control of the vermin, considering that vermin are mindless killers?
Brainstorming:
[*] Anima Sympathy: anything with a high mental stat and enough anima running through them (magic of blueness characters, basically) can imprint simple orders on vermin simply by exerting their will.
[*] Anima Alchemy: like above, but instead of force of will, you're using force of chemistry.
[*] Training: the anima in the vermin still responds faintly to soul, so with the proper training and spiritualism you can "train" them sort of like very, very, very stupid normal animals even though they're mindless.
[*] Magic: just cast Control Vermin or something.
Last edited by Vebyast on Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
DSMatticus wrote:There are two things you can learn from the Gaming Den:
1) Good design practices.
2) How to be a zookeeper for hyper-intelligent shit-flinging apes.
Sadly, there are virtually no vermin-related options I'm aware of, and the biggest vermin-theme I remember, the Child of Winter stuff from Eberron, was terribad.
Well, if you have some psionics/mind-control stuff that you want to play with, you could postulate that people with psychic powers project their psyche into a mindless creature. So you could have groups of people who make a living off of meditating to control 3 giant wasps.
DSMatticus wrote:Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.
Kaelik wrote:I invented saying mean things about Tussock.
On the topic of mounts: In a world I was building, the halfling empire's cavalry rode advanced (3 HD) Eagles. That's enough that the Eagle grows to medium size and gains Strength 15, enough to carry a halfling and a bit of equipment. Not much, though. I think the character build I had for this had, like, a couple of lances, a bunch of arrows, a bow, leather armor, and a lot of their stuff was made of Darkwood. Their camping gear was on a second eagle.
Hippogriffs also make good mounts. In that setting, Hippogriffs were used for heavy lifting (since, on a halfling scale, they're basically flying elephants), and eagles for general cavalry purposes.
Actually, Dumbo would be a useful monster for this setting, as a hauling beast.
Real long-distance cargo transport is done by temples with Lantern Archons pledged to service, though. Not summoned (unless you have an altar that summons them on a command word), but pledged to long-term service. Maybe Planar Bound/Allied.
Also, in Eberron, Halflings ride Pteronodons or something, when they need flying mounts. That could work, too.
"No, you can't burn the inn down. It's made of solid fire."
If you trqawl through enough books, you can drop some templates on young gold dragons and get extremely fast fliers that are still candidates for becoming undead. I was looking into it as a way to make fast airships (via the vaguely worded haunting presence), but I wrung out a 300ft fly speed (90ft land/swim) at 8HD, and 25 base STR. Aside from the hazard of abducting dragon children, that seems pretty win.
Order of operation mattered though. A lot.
Gnomes: Who Are Those Guys, Anyway?
You don't need me to tell that that 3rd edition Gnomes always kinda got the short end of the stick. First they had a favored class: illusionist, which was stupid. Who gets 1/9th of a favored class? Then they got bard, which was even worse. Okay, trickster, kind of a rogue/caster, fine. But the music thing didn't fit, and mechanically it was useless. Favored Class is a mechanic for multiclass characters, and bards have even less reason to multiclass than wizards do.
But the real problem is that the design space was crowded. You could do a gnome rogue, but would anybody who wasn't metagming realize you weren't a halfling? No. At least until your DM ran "In the Lair of the Badger." You could play up the gnomes' magic roots, but then you just had a race of skinny, nature-loving mages. IE Elves. Then there's the tech thing, but there never really *rules* for that, and I don't like consigning a whole race to being comedy heroes.
So the new deal is that Gnomes are going to have favored class: Wizard, and elves will be re-written to deemphasize arcane magic. Gnomes will be the go-to race for wise old masters of arcane power. They even invented wizards.
Curiosity Killed the Cat...
The forest gnomes are a dwindling race, consisting of a few embattled and underpopulated clans of forest nomads. Since before anyone has records, they stalked the woods and hills on the edge of limbo, quietly gathering herbs and whatever valuable the chaos spewed forth. Dragons ruled the borderlands then as now, but in the old days gnomes were beneath the dragons notice. Then the gnomes made the choice that changed everything.
The history of the gnomes begins on the day they stole magic from the dragons. Employing utmost stealth, they studied the dragons long enough to transcribe several entire creatures into their newly formulated alphabet. Then they developed a grammar which allowed them to use their stored dragonwords for magic. Eventually they began a program of archeology and archiving, seeking out lost words and incorporate them into their spellbooks before they could grow into dragons. That was their mistake. Rendered unable to reproduce, the enraged dragons struck back. First they scoured the forests and captured most of the gnomes. They took them back to their caves and began to rename them, eventually creating the kobolds. These they unleashed to hunt and slay the remaining gnomes.
...So I Reanimated It
A few stubborn forest gnomes stalk the ancestral homeland to this day, having forsworn wizardry to better conceal themselves. The wizards, however, elected to flee. However, dispute over where to flee to divided the race. A popular necromancer proposed that they settle the lower islands and the ground. Even back then, ghosts and spectres were common sights in the lower levels, and it was known that among the few things dragons feared were incorporeal creatures with ability damage touch attacks. Under his guidance, they established the Midnight School, a hidden academy devoted to the advancement of necromancy and illusion.
Others refused to seek the dubious comfort of the haunted surface. They traveled inward until eventually encountering the halfling empire. Well, no empire gets far without its scholar and mages, and the expansionistic halflings saw an opportunity. They took in the gnomes, and over time the cultures grew close, though not identical. These days halflings have names like Marcus Secundus Aurelius and Gnomes have names like Markos.
Gnome Territory
The largest population of gnomes are the slave class of the halfling regime. They can be found everywhere in the Halfling territory, but the only territory they can be said to control is the Lykeion or White Tower. The world's premier school of wizardry occupies an island of its own, with visitors discouraged by the halfling paladins who both defend and monitor the resident wizards. The lower levels of the tower function as a monastery where massive numbers of monastic venerate the angels from behind vows of silence. Their restraint from language and pursuit of ecstatic experience is believed to prevent the wizards' magic from destabilizing the island. The wizards, monastics, and paladins collectively comprise the White Rose Order, an LG group dedicated to advancing the universal good, inside and outside of imperial territory or approval. The school's faculty are of sufficient power and influence to operate mostly autonomously, even enacting a number of policies which actively displease the emperor. (Foremost among them, offering temporary scholarly residencies to any knowledge seekers who are not Evil).
The surface gnomes, meanwhile, assert authority over relatively little land. Their demand for raw materials is very slight, and mostly fulfilled by contracting out services to the warlords of various marginal societies. What they do have is an enormous network of "waystations," small shelters and caches concealed by illusion, maintained and defended by animated undead. The White Order has recently attempted to imitate this network but with less success and fewer undead staff. The largest settlement of surface gnomes is a trade outpost near the mouth of Hell, where gnome representative engage in trade with both the devils and the vampire lords.
Allies and Enemies
The surface gnomes are fighting a bitter, genocidal war with the kobolds. They also have a strained relationship with the vampires that includes small amounts of trade and large amounts of distrust and covert warfare. They have an ad hoc but mostly hostile relationship with the surface orc,s although their interest intersect rarely. They have allied with the dark dwarves against the sunworshippers. Further afield, they often dispatch individual agents as mercenaries and advisors to goblin, gnoll, and ogre tribes.
The imperial gnomes are part of the empire and conduct themselves as such, with the exception that the Lykaion maintains friendlier ties to the hobs and aasimar than the empire at large does. Additionally, the White Rose are committed to supporting most inhabitants of the surface, but especially the drow.
Gnome ground and air forces
Gnome Adventurers
If you're a gnome adventurer, you're probably a graduate of the Lykeion. This usually means that you're a Wizard but it doesn't have to. They have another program of study. Long ago, a committee of gnome sages compiled a book called the Liber Mortifaciens, which contained, in coded and ciphered Greek, how to kill or neutralize every creature of the known world, along with condensed formulae of spells deemed useful for the task. The White Council that governs the school has Assassins running out their ears. They train some Beguilers too.
Other than that, career options are pretty limited. You can be a more specialized arcane caster, but then you won't get into a good gnome frat, and every will laugh at you behind their back. Unless you are a Dread Necromancer studying with the Dark Gnomes, of course.
Gnome Equipment and Enchantment
Both major gnome societies have massive stockpiles of minor magic items. Notable surface gnome creations include the Tarnkap (+hide cloak, with hide from undead), wands of Disrupt Undead, and "wall grenades" (enchanted pebbles which make an sustain a silent image of a cartoon wall whever they land). Imperial gnomes are known for their Defending Quarterstaves, Collars of Intellect (symbolic slave collars), and Flare Guns. (hand crossbow with bolts of hypnotic pattern, used to signal or set up an escape.)
Gnome Religion
Surface gnomes aren't terribly religious by nature. Those interested in divine magic tend to follow the practices of the dark dwarves. Imperial gnomes practice the halfling cult but often send additional prayers to celestials perceived by many as "fallen" or even to particularly noble devils.
Gnome Campaign Hooks
For the Gnomes: To Plant a Flower. something something missions for the white rose order take you across the surface and to the edges of known space.
Against the Gnomes: Born Conspirators. something something gnomes have placed an illusionist advisor in nearly every power center of the region the empire has selected for its next province. Hunt them down one by one and expose the web of bribes and secrets tying them back to the shadow school. [/b]
Halflings are tiny. Like, ridiculously tiny. Frankly asking us to accept a 30 pound PC is ridiculous.
Can I just say, that's been pissing me off since some retarded 4e designer worked out how heavy his fat-ass kid was and gave us giant HALFlings.
You know what's 30 lb? An adult pit bull terrier. A big Lynx. Only a Hobbit, thanks to cube-square fun, can swing a 3 foot piece of sharpened steel at the vulnerable arteries in your crotch. Hobbits aren't fat children, they aren't disjointed dwarfs, they're athletic adults. Bobcat, not baby seal.
PC, SJW, anti-fascist, not being a dick, or working on it, he/him.
As a D&D human can to a halfling commoner. PCs end up taking down titans, who cares that a PC halfling can take down a couple humans through stealth and skill?
PC, SJW, anti-fascist, not being a dick, or working on it, he/him.
A fair number of people care in my experience, particularly since the system also supports people making low level halfling fighters that power attack with a two handed weapon while calling twice their own weight a medium load. Halflings were markedly unpopular in my gaming group given that frankly my players weren't particularly imaginative and a couple of them could bicep curl about twice what a halfling weighs. People aren't always terribly consistent with their ability or willingness to suspend disbelief, after all, and things like carry weights and size are relatively concrete concepts compared to stuff like killing dragons with arbitrarily powerful magic arrows.
So while I'm sympathetic to the stance that people should just not think about it too hard because halflings are a net bonus to the setting I can also definitely see the other side of the coin given that telling people not to think about it became a pretty common occurrence at my table.
Last edited by Whipstitch on Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Fair enough. The upper limits are up in 3e, and they have the same basic strength as a Human in 4th. It has gotten harder to ignore.
The classic stat limits in AD&D had them pegged to a maximum of about 14 Str in 3e terms, where a big human would be up around 20 (12 or 18 for females). 3e's -2 Str doesn't impact hobbits the same way in flavour terms.
Oh, and the demi-humans were all supposed to be crazy-powerful anyway. Where fit NPC Humans averaged 10, Dwarves were 14, Elves 12, Gnomes 10, and Hobbits 8. The other races lost a lot in comparison.
PC, SJW, anti-fascist, not being a dick, or working on it, he/him.
Gnomes don't typically have much of a standing military, and prefer to have the rank-and-file fighting done for them by halflings, zombies, or mercenaries. When it is necessary to muster squads of gnome warriors, they typically defend their warrens with light armor and enormous tower shields, accompanied by crossbows and shortspears. Even the forest gnomes employ similar tactics, using wooden or bone shields and either imported crossbows or thrown weapons. Slings are common sidearms for ranged destruction of hostile skeletons. However, whenever possible even those gnomes who are not spellcasters prefer to fight by magic. Rather than expending their energies enchanting conventional magic weapons, gnome crafters tend to focus on spell-like items. A well-equipped squad of gnome warriors will carry gloves of shocking grasp and "flare guns" which fire Hypnotic Patterns.
