In Earthdawn everyone can use Half-magic. Even the Adepts - they use it for stuff being in the domain of their discipline, like Archers making arrows, and Wizards detecting the magical air of a place.
Normal Namegivers (metahumans) can use half-magic instead of a skill.
In game mechanics Adepts can use half-magic by rolling (Attribute+half of their Circle) step, plus they can spend Karma on it (in SR-terms - spend Edge).
In Earthdawn being an Adept isn't something you can be born with. Yes, there are gifted Namegivers who reach their Adept status soon and easy, but there are also those who reach First Circle by years of hard work...
It's not a 'magical gene', especially since a Discipline is more of a mindset and philosophical 'path of life' choice, than just an occupation...
The Shadowrun Situation
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Becoming an adept involved Training. Thera has some rather impressive Adept Schools, and is known for having more Adepts per Capita than anyone else. There's enough adepts that most Air Sailors are adepts. And there's a lot of those.
Of course, there's flying castles and such
But remember, the magic level in Earthdawn is WAY higher (even though the spell effects aren't nearly as good)
Of course, there's flying castles and such
But remember, the magic level in Earthdawn is WAY higher (even though the spell effects aren't nearly as good)
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Otakusensei
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So in Earthdawn the potential exists for anyone to use magic, but it's easier for some than others. We can consider this typical of a high mana level environment.
So its not so much the lack or presence of some x-factor, but the personal potential in every person to be expressed by exposure to the current level of mana.
Has there been any out of character talk of meta-genes in Shadowrun? Or has the majority of talk been in character sections? Perhaps the metagenetics is just a red herring?
So its not so much the lack or presence of some x-factor, but the personal potential in every person to be expressed by exposure to the current level of mana.
Has there been any out of character talk of meta-genes in Shadowrun? Or has the majority of talk been in character sections? Perhaps the metagenetics is just a red herring?
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Wesley Street
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Metagenetics doesn't just affect metahumanity; it's also the x-factor for Awakened flora and fauna. According to Paranormal Animals of North America, when the Awakening hit several species of life died as they could not adapt to the post-industrial environment in which they had Awakened.
Also, not every Awakened critter necessarily has an Awakened Critter Power. The difference between a metacow, metahummingbird or metasilverfish and the non-Awakened variety is literally a "changed restriction enzyme in the digestion process" (p. 6, PANA). Whatever that means.
Also, not every Awakened critter necessarily has an Awakened Critter Power. The difference between a metacow, metahummingbird or metasilverfish and the non-Awakened variety is literally a "changed restriction enzyme in the digestion process" (p. 6, PANA). Whatever that means.
Last edited by Wesley Street on Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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TheFlatline
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It more or less means (and I'm not entirely sure here myself) that the enzyme that unzips DNA has changed. Wikipedia suggests that some bacteria use restriction enzymes to attack and dissolve foreign DNA.
Basically, I think it means that on a sub-cellular level, the enzymes that make the cell function have changed. The function of the cell may be identical, but the enzyme itself is different.
Basically, I think it means that on a sub-cellular level, the enzymes that make the cell function have changed. The function of the cell may be identical, but the enzyme itself is different.
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Username17
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A restriction enzyme is an endonuclease that cuts DNA at specific palindromic sites. They are used to destroy foreign DNA by making essentially random cuts in an unknown sequence or to open up DNA chains in specific locations in known sequences. They are used as a defense mechanism against viruses and by transposons to spread. They are incredibly loved by biologists because every time they are presented with the same sequence they will cut that sequence in the same place. So for example if one is triggered to cut GCTATAGC it will not cut GCTATACG. This lets us use them for paternity tests and shit.
Having a different set of expressed restriction enzymes might make you resistant or vulnerable to a different set of viruses and other parasites. Or it might cause your genome to shred some portion of itself (which might or might not be compatible with life). But I think the implication was supposed to be that it did not appear to make any different at all, rather than that it ended up excising the gene for myostatin, thereby creating super dogs.
As for metagenetics specifically: in Shadowrun the proper genetic code is necessary but not sufficient for magical traits to be expressed. The metaphor they used in Shadowtech was that it was the three dimensional shape of the DNA (which of course is highly contingent based on chromatin packaging) rather than the sequence itself. And that was their explanation for why clones and identical twins did not always express metatraits the same way.
That being said: over 30% of the population is expressing some kind of metatraits, so it ain't exactly rare. Most of it is bullshit like "You are born a dwarf" and that shit is pretty close to breeding true (and in Earthdawn land it did breed true. Orcs of the 4th age didn't give birth to humans or elves even as a rare surprise).
-Username17
Having a different set of expressed restriction enzymes might make you resistant or vulnerable to a different set of viruses and other parasites. Or it might cause your genome to shred some portion of itself (which might or might not be compatible with life). But I think the implication was supposed to be that it did not appear to make any different at all, rather than that it ended up excising the gene for myostatin, thereby creating super dogs.
As for metagenetics specifically: in Shadowrun the proper genetic code is necessary but not sufficient for magical traits to be expressed. The metaphor they used in Shadowtech was that it was the three dimensional shape of the DNA (which of course is highly contingent based on chromatin packaging) rather than the sequence itself. And that was their explanation for why clones and identical twins did not always express metatraits the same way.
That being said: over 30% of the population is expressing some kind of metatraits, so it ain't exactly rare. Most of it is bullshit like "You are born a dwarf" and that shit is pretty close to breeding true (and in Earthdawn land it did breed true. Orcs of the 4th age didn't give birth to humans or elves even as a rare surprise).
-Username17
I always assumed that the metas giving birth to other metas thing in Shadowrun was a result of genetics double recessives at work.
When the magic got too low to support Elves, Dwarves, Trolls, orks, they started having human children. But those children weren't really human, they were trolls with unsupported magical genes that were dormant. Over the next 5000 years humanity interbred like crazy. human(elves) bred with human(orks).
Present Day Shadowrun, that makes for some fucked up family trees.
When the magic got too low to support Elves, Dwarves, Trolls, orks, they started having human children. But those children weren't really human, they were trolls with unsupported magical genes that were dormant. Over the next 5000 years humanity interbred like crazy. human(elves) bred with human(orks).
Present Day Shadowrun, that makes for some fucked up family trees.
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Stahlseele
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Wonder how many Harlekin and Aina and the others alone had . .
Welcome, to IronHell.
Shrapnel wrote:TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.
Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
Well, if the idea is that Dragons actively require a certain level of background magic radiation to exist - flight, not having their bones implode, whatever - then they need to pull some funky stasis bullshit and it doesn't mean that lower-level magical beings need to follow suit.sabs wrote:Immortal elves, bah humbug.
I still think that having Immortal elves running around during the 'down time' when even DRAGONS go to sleep, is stupid.
If the IE's are just a magic-induced expression of biological immortality (whatever the fuck that means), that wouldn't necessarily mean that in a mana-void they'd suddenly acquire a lifespan. Even if that was the case, you'd have to explain why all the metatypes wouldn't be screwed if they ever left the planet where all those magically-induced alterations should then suddenly switch off.
Edited for: Italics, italics everywhere.
Last edited by Antumbra on Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Immortality (when you look at objectively) is a whole lot easier to do magic wise. It's probably starting to get into the level of real science fiction. Either the self repairing DNA or a system or regenerating reserve stem cells that can (like white blood cells) migrate through the body to replace cells whose DNA have failed.sabs wrote:Immortal elves, bah humbug.
If the current world doesn't FUBAR itself soon, current technological advances will probably result in those being born today having a max life expectency of 150 and centurians (those who have reached 100 years old) being a visible percentage of the population in the next century.
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Username17
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Living to 60 is just a matter of not getting killed. Living until 70 or 80 is a matter of taking care of your health. But living until you're 120 takes a lot more than that. And living past that... well that just doesn't really happen.
Brains wear out. The system that write protects your brain and keeps tendril growth from tearing it to pieces also keeps your dopamiergic cells in your substantia nigra from regrowing their distant synapses as they break. If you live long enough, you will die of Parkinson's disease. There isn't really a cure for that, and there won't be as long as we still have human brains.
The children born today won't live to see their 150th birthdays. The first children to see that won't be born at all - they'll be made. If you wanna break the 140 year ceiling you gotta start at the beginning with the basic design flaws.
-Username17
Brains wear out. The system that write protects your brain and keeps tendril growth from tearing it to pieces also keeps your dopamiergic cells in your substantia nigra from regrowing their distant synapses as they break. If you live long enough, you will die of Parkinson's disease. There isn't really a cure for that, and there won't be as long as we still have human brains.
The children born today won't live to see their 150th birthdays. The first children to see that won't be born at all - they'll be made. If you wanna break the 140 year ceiling you gotta start at the beginning with the basic design flaws.
-Username17
The problem with Dragons staying during downcycle wouldn't be that their 'bones implode' or anything. They're magical beings, not beings of magic. Their anatomy and physiology is real, material and working during the downcycle. It's just that their biggest advantage is magical - the ability to thread magic, breathe fire, regenerate, and so on. And their primary sense is Astral Sight, which is also magical...
Mariusz "Kot" Butrykowski
"The only way to keep them in line is to bury them in a row..."
"The only way to keep them in line is to bury them in a row..."
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Ancient History
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It's not quite that bad. The only person confirmed to have done any of that crappola was Alachia (as the Virgin Queen, and later as a highly-placed, unnamed Nazi). Leonardo pretty much admitted that presenting himself as Leonardo in the 6th World was just a bunch of poncy elf cosplay. In both cases the stuff takes place in novels and isn't canon.
Okay, yes, Harlequin got the armor of Richard the Lion-Hearted and it still fits, but he never claimed to be the actual king as far as anyone is aware.
Okay, yes, Harlequin got the armor of Richard the Lion-Hearted and it still fits, but he never claimed to be the actual king as far as anyone is aware.
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Username17
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Gosh, I hope not.Fuchs wrote:It's bad enough. And many consider the novels canon.
Spoiler Warning: This review contains spoilers for Shadowboxer. As reviewed by Magespac.
I was very disappointed by this latest Shadowrun novel.
Where shall I start? Let's be positive about the whole thing and start with the things I liked, shall we? First of all, some of the characters were intriguing. I especially liked Delphia, the natty samurai with the unique weaponry. Thumbs, the street troll, was also an interesting character, though he had some flaws that were difficult to get past. The elven mage Emile was well done, and it would have been nice to see him (and his ferret familiar, Grand) more.
Another positive thing I can say about Shadowboxer was that the writing style was good. Pollotta is adept at engaging the reader and keeping the pages turning. Even with all the novel's problems, it was hard to put it down.
Now on to the negatives. There are many. In no particular order:
For one, I find it highly unsporting for the author to ignobly kill off what is ostensibly the novel's main character halfway through the story. Despite the fact that the back cover of the book claims that the story is about a dwarf named Two Bears, the bulk of the action takes place after Two Bears has been eliminated. He didn't even get a "good death." I felt a bit cheated by this development.
A second problem is characterisation. While some characters, such as Delphia, were reasonably consistent, others, like Thumbs, were not. The troll was presented at the beginning of the book as a street dweller, reduced to following a likely-looking prospect to look for jobs, but yet he showed remarkable savvy and experience when his services were engaged. Further, his cyberware seemed inconsistent with his situation. Where a street ganger obtained the money for wired reflexes, a reflex trigger, and cyberspurs was not explained: I would have liked more of Thumbs' background. We got more background on Two Bears, who was much less important.
A third, and perhaps the largest, problem in my opinion is one that is purely subjective. Pollotta seems quite enamored of the "world is a sinkhole" view of life. Characters were being killed faster than we could count, many of them in graphically messy ways. Almost no one was trustworthy, and a large percentage of the characters were depicted as either thorougly vile or at the very least dishonourable and without redeeming virtues.
Characters, notably a fellow named Wesley (later to become Attila), were introduced, played with a bit, and then forgotten about. One can assume from the narrative what befell him and his companion, but after following their exploits throughout much of the novel, it would have been nice to see their eventual fates. I'm still not certain why they were included in the first place.
A minor point, but the book could have done with a bit of editing. I counted a number of typos (such as "Tir Taingire") and outright misspellings (such as "Buddah"), the effect of which was jarring in a professionally-published novel.
Finally, the ending of Shadowboxer was extremely unsatisfying. Cheated--that was how I felt when I reached the end. The completion of the story was, in my mind, not an adequate reward for the events that occurred.
Perhaps I am old-fashioned, in that I prefer stories to have protagonists who prevail over odds, a worldview that's a bit more optimistic, and an ending that makes one feel like the effort of getting through the book was worth it. Shadowboxer provided none of these.
The only thing that saved Shadowboxer from our lowest rating is the writing style, some of the characterization, and the excellent background material about Miami and piracy.
Where shall I start? Let's be positive about the whole thing and start with the things I liked, shall we? First of all, some of the characters were intriguing. I especially liked Delphia, the natty samurai with the unique weaponry. Thumbs, the street troll, was also an interesting character, though he had some flaws that were difficult to get past. The elven mage Emile was well done, and it would have been nice to see him (and his ferret familiar, Grand) more.
Another positive thing I can say about Shadowboxer was that the writing style was good. Pollotta is adept at engaging the reader and keeping the pages turning. Even with all the novel's problems, it was hard to put it down.
Now on to the negatives. There are many. In no particular order:
For one, I find it highly unsporting for the author to ignobly kill off what is ostensibly the novel's main character halfway through the story. Despite the fact that the back cover of the book claims that the story is about a dwarf named Two Bears, the bulk of the action takes place after Two Bears has been eliminated. He didn't even get a "good death." I felt a bit cheated by this development.
A second problem is characterisation. While some characters, such as Delphia, were reasonably consistent, others, like Thumbs, were not. The troll was presented at the beginning of the book as a street dweller, reduced to following a likely-looking prospect to look for jobs, but yet he showed remarkable savvy and experience when his services were engaged. Further, his cyberware seemed inconsistent with his situation. Where a street ganger obtained the money for wired reflexes, a reflex trigger, and cyberspurs was not explained: I would have liked more of Thumbs' background. We got more background on Two Bears, who was much less important.
A third, and perhaps the largest, problem in my opinion is one that is purely subjective. Pollotta seems quite enamored of the "world is a sinkhole" view of life. Characters were being killed faster than we could count, many of them in graphically messy ways. Almost no one was trustworthy, and a large percentage of the characters were depicted as either thorougly vile or at the very least dishonourable and without redeeming virtues.
Characters, notably a fellow named Wesley (later to become Attila), were introduced, played with a bit, and then forgotten about. One can assume from the narrative what befell him and his companion, but after following their exploits throughout much of the novel, it would have been nice to see their eventual fates. I'm still not certain why they were included in the first place.
A minor point, but the book could have done with a bit of editing. I counted a number of typos (such as "Tir Taingire") and outright misspellings (such as "Buddah"), the effect of which was jarring in a professionally-published novel.
Finally, the ending of Shadowboxer was extremely unsatisfying. Cheated--that was how I felt when I reached the end. The completion of the story was, in my mind, not an adequate reward for the events that occurred.
Perhaps I am old-fashioned, in that I prefer stories to have protagonists who prevail over odds, a worldview that's a bit more optimistic, and an ending that makes one feel like the effort of getting through the book was worth it. Shadowboxer provided none of these.
The only thing that saved Shadowboxer from our lowest rating is the writing style, some of the characterization, and the excellent background material about Miami and piracy.
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Wesley Street
- Knight
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- Location: Indianapolis
The game writers pick and choose what is considered to be canon. Novels aren't canon but they aren't NOT canon either.Fuchs wrote:It's bad enough. And many consider the novels canon.
Last edited by Wesley Street on Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
IIRC Dragons of the Sixth World says that magic is the only reason beings with their physiology are physically able to fly. (I could be confusing this with something else, though.)Kot wrote:The problem with Dragons staying during downcycle wouldn't be that their 'bones implode' or anything. They're magical beings, not beings of magic. Their anatomy and physiology is real, material and working during the downcycle. It's just that their biggest advantage is magical - the ability to thread magic, breathe fire, regenerate, and so on. And their primary sense is Astral Sight, which is also magical...
For a minute, I used to be "a guy" in the TTRPG "industry". Now I'm just a nobody. For the most part, it's a relief.
Trank Frollman wrote:One of the reasons we can say insightful things about stuff is that we don't have to pretend to be nice to people. By embracing active aggression, we eliminate much of the passive aggression that so paralyzes things on other gaming forums.
hogarth wrote:As the good book saith, let he who is without boners cast the first stone.
TiaC wrote:I'm not quite sure why this is an argument. (Except that Kaelik is in it, that's a good reason.)
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Stahlseele
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people seem to be growing a bit bitter with the way alt.war! seems to be (not) going . .
No no, that's pretty much it. Same with the Discworld Novel where they fight the big Dragon ^^Schwarzkopf wrote:IIRC Dragons of the Sixth World says that magic is the only reason beings with their physiology are physically able to fly. (I could be confusing this with something else, though.)Kot wrote:The problem with Dragons staying during downcycle wouldn't be that their 'bones implode' or anything. They're magical beings, not beings of magic. Their anatomy and physiology is real, material and working during the downcycle. It's just that their biggest advantage is magical - the ability to thread magic, breathe fire, regenerate, and so on. And their primary sense is Astral Sight, which is also magical...
Last edited by Stahlseele on Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Welcome, to IronHell.
Shrapnel wrote:TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.
Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
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Username17
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Meh. I got 75k words, some maps, most of a functioning combat system with the conversions for spirits and spells, and a military appraisal of every goddamn country, merc army, and major corporation in the fucking planet. I don't know what y'all been doing.Stahlseele wrote:people seem to be growing a bit bitter with the way alt.war! seems to be (not) going . .
-Username17
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Stahlseele
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Me? nothing in that regard. i don't know shit about that stuff.
Also, i am damned uncreative and unimaginative.
People actually seem to be put off a bit by the expanse of the changes you guys have been proposing.
Basically, they wanted fluff corrections/expansions.
Not new rules for stuff like electrical weapons and the such.
Basically, most people were expecting fan errata for War!, and not something like "Ends of the Matrix 6th. World" ^^
Also, i am damned uncreative and unimaginative.
People actually seem to be put off a bit by the expanse of the changes you guys have been proposing.
Basically, they wanted fluff corrections/expansions.
Not new rules for stuff like electrical weapons and the such.
Basically, most people were expecting fan errata for War!, and not something like "Ends of the Matrix 6th. World" ^^
Last edited by Stahlseele on Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Welcome, to IronHell.
Shrapnel wrote:TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.
Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
Dude, You can't make fan errata for War!
It's just too fucking horrible. Unfortunately Hermit seems to have vanished from the face of the earth, and Doc seems to have lost interest.
The stuff Brazilian wrote is interesting and quite good.
Frank went full steam ahead being Frank. If they don't like it, they can go write their own.
It's just too fucking horrible. Unfortunately Hermit seems to have vanished from the face of the earth, and Doc seems to have lost interest.
The stuff Brazilian wrote is interesting and quite good.
Frank went full steam ahead being Frank. If they don't like it, they can go write their own.
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Username17
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It's not "you guys". It's seriously just me. I farm out some editing and playtesting and such, but basically I do the writing on that whole bit. I get more typo corrections from my girlfriend than I do from the entire internet combined.Stahlseele wrote:Me? nothing in that regard. i don't know shit about that stuff.
Also, i am damned uncreative and unimaginative.
People actualle seem to be put off a bit by the expanse the changes you guys have been proposing.
Basically, they wanted fluff corrections/expansions.
Not new rules for stuff like electrical weapons and the such.
As for the combat rule changes, that has to be done. People asked for working tank rules. You can't make working tank rules without making a scaling damage system that scales to fucking tank damage size. You can't make a scaling damage system without producing a new set of rules for everything in the fucking game that "does damage". The suggestion "we should have rules for shooting tanks with rockets that actually work" sounds shit simple, but you can't just plug that shit in. There is no easy fucking kludge.
And that's why the heavy weapons bits in Catalyst's War! are so fucking terribad. Make those weapons big enough to hurt tanks and the game falls apart, don't make them big enough to hurt tanks and the game falls apart. The game's damage system cannot handle numbers that big. And when people ask for something that solves that problem and doesn't rewrite the whole combat system, what they are asking for is a literal impossibility.
And honestly, they can nerdrage about that shit all they want. They don't have a solution to that problem, because within the constraints they've placed on themselves that problem is unsolvable. So fuck'em. The Dumpshock crew are a bunch of ungrateful douches, and I honestly have no real motivation to assist them in any way. At this point I wouldn't piss on Grinder or Fist if they were on fire. I'll finish alt.war because I have integrity and I said I would. But I ain't never doing another Shadowrun thing, not even free for the fans.
-Username17