After Sundown

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:43 pm

I have a huge problem with an advanced power that you can never ever use yourself even a little bit, unless you have a lunar power source, even though all the monsters that get the power by default don't have lunar power source.

I have a problem with werewolves with restoration being better at regenerating than trolls or Strogi.

I have a problem with Strogi paying one of their advanced powers for something that is effectively not something they can even use themselves.

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:38 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:I don't really have a problem with people having to electrocute Frankenstein's monster to bring him back from the dead. Do other people have a huge problem with this?

-Username17

That's totally fine, but Frankenstein's monster probably doesn't have Restoration.

Part of the utility of the power depends on how much it makes death a revolving door. That, in turn, depends on your power source and how pro-active your friends are.

If you change the situation to one where Lunar power sources mean guaranteed use of the power (as before) while another power source needs planning (either allies or not using up your whole pool before dying), you haven't really killed the flavor for anyone.

Here's the power as written:

Restoration Death is no longer an insurmountable obstacle. While the character is dead, they may spend 2 power points plus an additional power point per point of Potency they possess and four hours to reduce the amount of damage on themselves to one less than Lethal. Restoration cannot be performed when the character’s body has been impaled with something that inflicts aggravated damage or there is gross separation of the head and heart until it is removed and someone else invests power into the reassembled corpse. If the character stays dead for a whole month, any remaining power points they have are lost and they do not gain power points with their normal power schedule (even if that schedule is continuous). If the character lacks the power points to use this discipline, they may yet get a chance if the vast majority of their body is placed together and invested with sufficient Power by others (for example: with Gift of Health). Restoration can be disrupted as if it were a Sorcery with a power source identical to the character using it. For purposes of being countered, Restoration has the equivalent of 3 hits.

The only change I think it needs isn't part of the ability, it's the separate issue of losing Power when you die (and/or trolls not getting more scenes after death).

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:59 pm

For a PC, it's generally irrelevant whether you can use Restoration without help or not. The assumption is that the PCs are a team, that team good wins or at least escapes together, and that your friends can patch you up. So no, I don't see a problem with Frankensteins getting recharged with by their friends, androids wound back up, or the players force-feeding their vampire a few blood packs. I genuinely don't know what Kaelik is going on about. The ability that you're paying for is the chance to throw your character into danger without worrying; to be more effective in combat because you can be more reckless in combat, and Strigoi don't lose that ability just because they need an assist coming back. Most of the time if you die, your body will end up either with your friends or with your enemies, and that is what determines whether you get to come back.

Now it's true that the Lunar version is substantially better, in that a dying Werewolf can stagger through a portal, or teleport away, or fall into a chasm, and still come back to the group provided that neither friends nor foes can find their body. But that's actually fine with me. Werewolf mythology has them as unstoppable loners, while vampires have allies and minions. Mechanically it's nice, but other disciplines work well with other schedules. Look at how great Revive the Flesh is with Feeding, for instance--you can basically heal up after every fight if you have a minute to molest the bodies.

It's for NPCs that I think the rules need to be looked at. NPCs are generally less likely than PCs to have friends able and willing to retrieve and rejuvenate their bodies. I'm fine with enemy vampires needing a loyal servant to revive them. But if the PCs shoot a troll full of bullets and run away, they absolutely deserve to have that troll chasing them a few minutes later.

Cynic · Post by **Cynic** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 4:08 am

Is there some reason that this is only available through payloads.com?

I've tried to hawk it on a couple people and while I've sent the pdf to them, they seem wary of using a relatively unknown site as payloads.

And I'm with the others on using kickstart on this.

It does take a little getting used to look at the book cover and realize that the faces are meant to be off-skew/right of center in positioning.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 4:29 am

I did up pencils of a Nezumi with War Form WCL pirate, if art is still needed. Black and white for interior art, I'm assuming?

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 4:07 pm

Cynic wrote:Is there some reason that this is only available through payloads.com?

I've tried to hawk it on a couple people and while I've sent the pdf to them, they seem wary of using a relatively unknown site as payloads.

And I'm with the others on using kickstart on this.

It does take a little getting used to look at the book cover and realize that the faces are meant to be off-skew/right of center in positioning.

It's on Amazon too. And Payloads uses PayPal; I bought it from them and as far as I can tell they're on the level.

I wasn't sure how a really high-powered character would look like, so I wrote up a possible King and Three Shadows. Do they look reasonable?

The King of Three Shadows

Fallen, with the following additional disciplines:

Code: Select all

Disciplines
 Discernment &#40;Perception +6&#41;
    Aura Perception             Intuition + Empathy = 20
    Psychometry                 Intuition + Empathy = 20
    Divination                  Charisma + Bureaucracy = 27
 Domination
    Command                     Willpower + Intimidation = 15
 Fortitude &#40;Physical resistance +6&#41;
    Restoration
    Endless Persistance
 Magnetism &#40;Charisma & Willpower socializing +3&#41;
    Summon                      Charisma + Empathy = 27
    Depolarize                  Charisma + Bureaucracy = 27
 Devotions
    Betrayl of the Tongue &#40;Domination & Magnetism&#41;  Charisma + Operations = 24
    Cleanse the Body &#40;Fortitude & Magnetism&#41;
    Facade of Nonchalance &#40;Domination & Veil&#41;       Charisma + Larceny = 23
    Purify the Mind &#40;Domination & Fortitude&#41;        Willpower + Tactics = 20
Infernal Sorceries
 Descent of Entropy &#40;reconstructing +6&#41;
    Light of Ennui              Charisma + Empathy = 27
    Contradiction               Charisma + Bureaucracy = 27
    Howl of the Abyss           Charisma + Bureaucracy = 27
 Names of the Blasphemies
    Poison Heart                Charisma + Empathy = 27
    Banishment                  Charisma + Bureaucracy = 27
    Bind the Name               Charisma + Bureaucracy = 27
    The Great Unbinding         Charisma + Bureaucracy = 27

Edge 6, Potency 10
Power 40
Agility 5, Strength 7
Charisma 16, Willpower 7
Intuition 9, Logic 5

Physical Skills: Athletics 5, Combat 6, Larceny 7, Stealth 6, Survival 5.
Social Skills: Animal Ken 5, Bureaucracy (Infernal) 9, Empathy (motivations) 9, Intimidation (fear mongering) 6, Persuasion 6, Tactics (inspiration) 9.
Technical Sklls: Medicine (first aid) 5, Operations (pilot) 6, Research (libraries) 5.

Shadow of Darkness (or whatever)

Mirror goblin, with the following extra powers:

Code: Select all

Disciplines
 Celerity &#40;Initiative +8&#41;
    Nimble Feet
    Alacrity
    Quicken Sight
    Quicken Thought
 Clout &#40;Strength +1&#41;
    Clinging
 Fortitude &#40;Physical resistance +2&#41;
    Patience of the Mountains
    Revive the Flesh
 Devotions
    War Form &#40;Celerity & Clout&#41;
Infernal Sorceries
 Names of the Blasphemies
    Learn the Heart's Pain  Intuition + Larceny = 22
    Poison Heart            Intuition + Larceny = 22
    Banishment              Intuition + Larceny = 22
    The Truest Name         Intuition + Stealth = 25
 Progress of Glass &#40;Drive +2&#41;
    Deny the Gauntlet       Intuition + Stealth = 25
Orphic Sorceries
 Lure of Destruction &#40;death threshold +2&#41;
    Touch of Darkness
 Play of Shadows &#40;Intimidation & Stealth +3&#41;
    Eyes of Night           Intuition + Perception = 18
    Shadow Casting
    Cloak of Shadows        Intuition + Stealth = 25
    Solid Darkness          Intuition = 12
    Shadow Walk

Edge 5, Potency 6
Power: 28
Agility 10, Strength 6 (7)
Charisma 3, Willpower 6
Intuition 12, Logic 3

Physical Skills: Combat (claws, kidnapping) 8, Larceny 8, Perception 6, Stealth (hiding, shadowing, sneaking) 8 (11), Survival (Infernal) 6.

Shadow of Deceit (or whatever)

Ifrit, with the following added abilities:

Code: Select all

Disciplines
 Discernment &#40;Perception +4&#41;
    Telepathy                   Willpower + Intimidation = 22
 Domination
    Suggestion                  Willpower + Expression = 22
 Devotions
    Will to Power &#40;Clout & Domination&#41;
Infernal Sorceries
 Descent of Entropy &#40;reconstructing +2&#41;
    Light of Ennui              Charisma + Empathy = 15
 Walk of Flame &#40;Sabotage +6&#41;
    Fire Walking
    Flames of Panic             Agility + Survival = 15
    Scorch the Gateway          Willpower + Intimidation + Potency = 28

Edge 4, Potency 6
Power: 28.
Agility 7, Strength 1 (2)
Charisma 5, Willpower 12
Intuition 11, Logic 4

Physical Skills: Athletics 1, Combat 1, Larceny (legerdemain) 6, Perception (sight) 6 (10), Stealth (innocuity, sneaking) 8, Survival (infernal) 6.
Social Skills: Empathy (motivations) 8, Expression (oratory) 8, Intimidation (fear mongering, interrogation) 8.
Technical Skills: Artisan (painting) 6, Rigging (hydraulics) 6, Sabotage (disabling stuff) 8.

Shadow of Loss (or whatever)

Asura, with the following additional powers:

Code: Select all

Disciplines
 Fortitude &#40;Physical resistance +4&#41;
    Indomitability
 Magnetism
    Siren Song                  Charisma + Persuasion = 21
 Devotions
    Invulnerability &#40;Clout & Fortitude&#41;
Infernal Sorceries
 Descent of Entropy
    Abyss of the Body &#40;cooties&#41; Charisma + Medicine = 24
    Aura of Decay               Charisma + Medicine = 24
    Wind of Pestilence          Charisma + Medicine = 24
 Progress of Glass
    Deny the Gauntlet           Logic + Operations = 22
    Rain of Glass               Logic + Operations = 22
Orphic Sorceries
 Path of Blood &#40;Medicine & Survival +2&#41;
    Thaumaturgical Forensics    Logic + Medicine = 24
    Theft of Life               Logic + Medicine = 24
 Symphony of Silence
    Frozen Note                 Charisma + Expression = 22
    Prison of Ice               Charisma + Expression = 22
    Frozen Day                  Charisma + Expression = 22

Edge 6, Potency 5
Power: 25
Agility 4, Strength 4 (5)
Charisma 11, Willpower 4
Intuition 4, Logic 11

Physical Skills: Athletics 6 (flight), Combat 4, Survival (Infernal) 6.
Social Skills: Empathy (actions) 8, Expression (song) 9, Persuasion (acting) 8, Tactics (coordination) 9.
Technical Skills: Medicine (first aid, long-term care) 9 (12), Operations (optics) 9.

The Ko3S has 11 basic, 12 advanced, and 5 elder powers. Darkness has 12 basic, 6 advanced, and 3 elder, Deceit has 13 basic, 8 advanced, and 3 elder, and Loss has 9 basic, 8 advanced, and 3 elder.

In all cases that works out to about 1 elder power per 2 Potency (which is what a basic Ifrit gets).

The first thing I notice is that die pools are really fucking big. The second is that the Dark Reflection is pretty escapable.

For example, if you call out Darkness's name 3 times, it rolls 25 dice to reduce the difficulty of escaping, and then rolls 17 dice to escape. If darkness was Name Bound with 5 hits (same an the King), it'd still beat the threshold of 11 on an average roll.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:07 pm

Is the Amazon Kindle site working? I totally can't tell, because I don't actually have a Kindle. Also: I think I need to go through an aggregator to put it on the iBook store, because Steve Jobs is an asshole. But it's hard to do that stuff from Africa.

-Username17

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:28 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:Is the Amazon Kindle site working? I totally can't tell, because I don't actually have a Kindle. Also: I think I need to go through an aggregator to put it on the iBook store, because Steve Jobs is an asshole. But it's hard to do that stuff from Africa.

-Username17

The Amazon download is theoretically working, but I haven't used it because I don't want their malware on my computer.

Cynic · Post by **Cynic** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:45 pm

So, my friend's decided that he'll buy after reading it.

He wanted to know about places for Errata checking, etc. I mentioned the Den. Keeping that in mind, Publishing a link in the pdf to a personal website or a place like the Den for mechanic questions would possibly be useful.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:23 pm

So apparently some people would rather just pay me directly via paypal. This is in fact possible. My paypal email is the same as my normal email:

ftrollman@gmail.com

-Username17

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:49 pm

What does it mean when a power is "covert"? My guess is that dowsing still works, but it doesn't look 'magical'.

What power source do dispellings have (since they are 'technically sorceries')? My guess is that seeds are astral, sand is orphic, and salt is infernal, because that makes intuitive sense.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:30 pm

catharz wrote:What does it mean when a power is "covert"? My guess is that dowsing still works, but it doesn't look 'magical'.

Yes. It just means its natural English meaning. It means you can do it without people seeing that you did anything.

-Username17

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:43 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:
catharz wrote:What does it mean when a power is "covert"? My guess is that dowsing still works, but it doesn't look 'magical'.
Yes. It just means its natural English meaning. It means you can do it without people seeing that you did anything.

-Username17

Good to know.

Here's a more esoteric question: If I put a tape recorder in a Mirror Pocket, will it record what's happening on the other side of the glass? If I stick a grenade in there, will the explosion be contained?

Starmaker · Post by **Starmaker** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:56 am

FrankTrollman wrote:So apparently some people would rather just pay me directly via paypal. This is in fact possible. My paypal email is the same as my normal email:

Something tells me you're going to receive a number of lucrative business offers, notices about inheritance from recently-deceased relatives you didn't know you had, and FBI warnings.

Draco_Argentum · Post by **Draco_Argentum** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:05 am

The Amazon one is gone, I tried to buy it now that my credit card has been replaced and nada.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:50 pm

DA wrote:The Amazon one is gone, I tried to buy it now that my credit card has been replaced and nada.

That is weird as fuck. I only just got the message that they had put it up at all. Then they sent me this:

Amazon wrote:Dear Publisher,

During a quality assurance review of your title, we have found the following issue(s):

Line breaks and page breaks need to be set properly in this title.

As a result, your title has been unpublished. Please make the necessary changes to the content, and reupload the corrected version. You can upload your revised content over the original submission through the 'Book Content' section in your KDP Bookshelf. Click on Browse, select the revised file, and then hit Upload. This will replace the old content with the new one. Please note, if you are updating published content, you'll need to reconfirm Content Rights and select 'Save and Publish'.

If you have further questions, please write to us at kdp-support@amazon.com. Please reference your ticket number when contacting us.

Best regards,

Amazon KDP

I'm in Africa and I don't have a kindle, so I don't know what's going on. The Kindle format version is made by their software, and I can't fucking read it. I made the pdf version, and it was made in fucking InDesign and has totally functional line breaks and page breaks. Anyone have any ideas?

-Username17

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:41 pm

The Kindle uses epub, right? A friend of mine just got a kindle, so I can send him the one from the torrent to see what's up.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:56 pm

CatharzGodfoot wrote:The Kindle uses epub, right? A friend of mine just got a kindle, so I can send him the one from the torrent to see what's up.

you could also use calibre(free software) to straight convert it from pdf to epub, and see how that works

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:02 pm

Kindle uses its own proprietary bullshit. It's supposed to accept conversions from pdf, but apparently it doesn't.

-Username17

Manxome · Post by **Manxome** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:18 pm

There appears to be free official software for reading Kindle books on PC, if that helps.

Draco_Argentum · Post by **Draco_Argentum** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:19 am

Unfortunately I don't know crap about fixing it up. Amazon's stupid, crappy PC kindle software also won't open the epub file in the torrent so I can't even check if there are any real problems..

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:24 am

Draco_Argentum wrote:Unfortunately I don't know crap about fixing it up. Amazon's stupid, crappy PC kindle software also won't open the epub file in the torrent so I can't even check if there are any real problems..

epub is the crappy DRM format that Apple's iStore wants to use. That is a different set of problems. Because while InDesign can happily make a WYSIWYG epub file, you ca't actually put something up for sale on the iStore unless you have a Mac running the latest MACOS. And you need to provide a bunch of extremely personal information, so having someone else do it with their own Mac isn't really an option.

The Kindle store seems to be open to everyone, but there are no Kindle format editors. It just has a shitty program to convert shit from pdf or word document into Kindle format. And the Kindle help line had this to say:

Kindle Support wrote:I looked at your file and the reason why the paragraph breaks are missing is that you uploaded a PDF file for conversion. For best results, I would suggest copy-pasting your text into a Word file and then inserting paragraph breaks in Word; these will convert well to Kindle.

We do accept PDF files for eBook conversion, however, some complex PDF files may not export well because it’s difficult for optical character recognition systems like our KDP converter to interpret embedded formatting and image placement. If your conversion results are unsatisfactory, we suggest you make further modifications prior to publishing.

So... iStore and Kindle Store basically do not work. Like, at all. If you don't have a simple plain text book, the Kindle Store may not be able to sell your stuff. And if you don't own an actual physical iPad, Steve Jobs will not allow you to sell your book no matter what it is.

-Username17

Draco_Argentum · Post by **Draco_Argentum** » Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:09 am

They sure want to make it hard for themselves to skim a cut of sales.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:18 pm

Anyway, I think I'm just going to give the paypal instructions in later books and distribute later books via Torrent and Payloads from the get-go. That means that I can put some color in the later stuff because I am not bothering with fucking around with Kindle format. For stylistic and load time reasons, I think the subsequent books will continue being mostly black and white.

Anyway, next up is The Dark Reflection. So if anyone wants to submit pictures for inclusion, that would be awesome. We're especially looking for Daeva, Nezumi, Mi Go, Android, Baali, and Fallen art. But of course, anything gere appropriate works.

-Username17

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:28 pm

Are you taking writing submissions? Now that I'm out of college I have the time to actually churn out text.