The Shadowrun Situation

Kot · Post by **Kot** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:51 am

You could have pointed him there in a polite way. Everyone can make mistakes, and that was not a big one.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:51 am

This is the Den.
We don't do polite all that often around here it seems.

Otakusensei · Post by **Otakusensei** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:16 pm

That was the first I heard about possession traditions being banned as well.

Doesn't seem that odd, living world games ban shit all the time. The fact they took that long to do it says something about the amount of care and attention given though. And the player base. Most folks I know have never even heard of missions. And the ones that have don't seem to care.

Fuchs · Post by **Fuchs** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:55 pm

The first rule for any game maker should be: Don't put stuff in your game you'd ban in your official campaign. It sends a very bad message.

Neurosis · Post by **Neurosis** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:16 pm

Stahlseele wrote:This is the Den.
We don't do polite all that often around here it seems.

qft

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:50 am

I have never, ever understood the mentality of Missions, probably because I have never played a convention game or had any real desire to do so. The list of crap you can't do or can't play in a Missions game (and, let it be said, the generally poor quality of the writing) is really incredible.

Wesley Street · Post by **Wesley Street** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:21 pm

Ancient History wrote:I have never, ever understood the mentality of Missions, probably because I have never played a convention game or had any real desire to do so.

You're not the target audience. And neither am I as I rarely play them except as a demo/intro to the system. But there's a significant audience of people who live for con and tournament games.

crizh · Post by **crizh** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:51 pm

Street Legends is out if anyone cares.

Numerous LOL's are to be had.

Fuchs will especially like the stat-block for Hestaby....

[edit]

Spoke too soon. Nearly swallowed my tongue when I turned the page and the heading was Lofwyr...

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 4:07 pm

Dumpshock is allready debating on how to take on his 35 Body self.
Me, personally, i am waiting for the Rhine Ruhr Megaplex Book done by Pegasus Spiele ^^

crizh · Post by **crizh** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:20 pm

I imagine that debate will be mostly worthless considering how poorly most of the stat blocks are designed.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:39 pm

Yeah, especially, of course, since the EVERY DRAGON IS ALLWAYS 100% PREPARED FOR EVERYTHING got invoked . .

crizh · Post by **crizh** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:57 pm

Well looks like the designer at least had the smarts to build in a response to the stupid ' I shoot him with a missile ' bullshit.

What amazes me is that DS has 5 pages of twaddle before anyone thinks to point out that the stat's are now in the public domain and not a matter for speculation any longer.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:05 pm

crizh wrote:Well looks like the designer at least had the smarts to build in a response to the stupid ' I shoot him with a missile ' bullshit.

What amazes me is that DS has 5 pages of twaddle before anyone thinks to point out that the stat's are now in the public domain and not a matter for speculation any longer.

A missile would still totally nail him, the defenses aren't really that big. Also: the book is only "semi official" meaning that the stats are still a matter of speculation.

-Username17

crizh · Post by **crizh** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:30 pm

He has a 'Destroy Missile' spell and anchoring.

Presumably the intent is to create a mechanic that allows him to evaporate any incoming munitions he is threatened by.

Frankly having looked at his stats again I'm unimpressed.

The Mary Sue NPC I created to demonstrate that it was possible to stat such beings and still have them be essentially invulnerable to anything PC's can do will probably wipe the floor with him. And she's only built on 5000 karma which is what I thought qualified as low end for Fourth World survivors.

They are all rubbish. Why the hell does Lugh Surehand know Ally Conjuration if he has forgotten to conjure said ally?

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:41 pm

Destroy Missile is no better than a Power Bolt. Seriously: it's basically worthless for any direct-fire missile. And if anyone cares about missilating him enough to drop a Spirit Movement to reduce time of flight, Destroy Missile isn't going to have a chance to go off.

It's just there to make drooling fanboys shut up. But the reality is that the spell does not work like that, and it just serves to highlight the vulnerabilities of the character.

-Username17

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:18 am

My best bet of getting the old lizward were one 800bp hacker to figure out where he is going to be when without leaving traces and a 800 bp pornomancer to call in a thorshot at location x at time y where dragon z is at location x

Otakusensei · Post by **Otakusensei** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:14 am

CGL is in no position to release books that are "semi-official". They can pull that shit when they're putting out a full sourcebook a month and the channel is starting to get thick from the bi-monthly PDF supplements.

Someone pull the plug on this game and let it die a noble death. I'm sick of this Shadowrun branded shit trickling out every few months so a few scumbags can pretend they're somehow legitimate businessmen and game developers.

crizh · Post by **crizh** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:33 am

FrankTrollman wrote:Destroy Missile is no better than a Power Bolt. Seriously: it's basically worthless for any direct-fire missile. And if anyone cares about missilating him enough to drop a Spirit Movement to reduce time of flight, Destroy Missile isn't going to have a chance to go off.

It's just there to make drooling fanboys shut up. But the reality is that the spell does not work like that, and it just serves to highlight the vulnerabilities of the character.

-Username17

Nope, you lost me there Frank.

Demolish (my bad) Missile would work just fine. What he lacks is a relevant Detection spell to trigger an Anchor.

Was Anti-bullet Barrier not used as the triggered spell in the first use of Anchoring in the Sixth World? Anchoring is designed to be capable of detecting and intercepting incoming ordinance. Lofwyr is intended to be capable of such a trick he is just badly designed.

Why else would he have only 14 Metamagics despite having a Grade of 25+? Why would that list of Metamagics not include Centering?

TheFlatline · Post by **TheFlatline** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:23 am

Seriously? They statted out Lofwyr?

Christ even White Wolf figured out you never stat the *really* important characters in your game.

There's an old saying in RPGs: "If you stat it, they will kill it."

And again. In shadowrun I don't fear Lofwyr because he can belly flop on me, I fear him because he fucking *is* Saeder-Krupp and I can personally piss off the resources of a global AAA Megacorp.

crizh · Post by **crizh** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 10:14 am

To be fair they haven't done too badly. Both Lofwyr and Hestaby have stat's that are in the ball park of what I would consider beyond the ken of normal mortals.

They just lack finesse and polish. The raw ingredients are there to make a truly spectacular dish but they've just sort of mixed them into a dull brown paste that is no use to anybody.

There are a couple of stupid 'I win' buttons in sr4 that are a threat to them but that is a mechanical failure in the system rather than a weakness in the stat's.

Fuchs · Post by **Fuchs** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 3:29 pm

People who want Dragons to be unkillable shouldn't play Shadowrun, much less design for it.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:08 pm

I created some of the characters in that book. I don't think I want to see what has been done to them.

crizh · Post by **crizh** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:27 pm

Which ones, just out of interest...?

TheFlatline · Post by **TheFlatline** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 8:50 pm

crizh wrote:To be fair they haven't done too badly. Both Lofwyr and Hestaby have stat's that are in the ball park of what I would consider beyond the ken of normal mortals.

They just lack finesse and polish. The raw ingredients are there to make a truly spectacular dish but they've just sort of mixed them into a dull brown paste that is no use to anybody.

There are a couple of stupid 'I win' buttons in sr4 that are a threat to them but that is a mechanical failure in the system rather than a weakness in the stat's.

I don't care if they do it fantastically.

I mean, none of the books even cover being of such a social, political, or economic standing that you could move among the circles that even has a crack at Lofwyr physically. The game would feel and play totally different than any of the standard shadowrun experiences.

Not that it matters, since apparently all CGL Shadowrun releases are "not necessarily official" any more.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:03 pm

crizh wrote:Which ones, just out of interest...?

I'm not entirely sure who they've shoved in there, but Sticks and Mihoshi Oni are in there I've heard, and those along with Butch were the three shadowtalkers of mine Rob added to the list when SR4 was in the works (some later freelancers thought I created Hannibelle too, but that's not true - I just made good use of her).