[SR4] The Sharpshooter's Way

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Seerow
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[SR4] The Sharpshooter's Way

Post by Seerow »

The other day while the group was playing shadowrun, it came up how cool it would be to have a gun adept that got more out of being an adept than just a few extra dice on his weapon skill. Adepts get all sorts of fun toys for unarmed combat, but other than that they're more or less just a dip in for characters to grab a few extra dice on their favorite skills. That, in my opinion, is a huge waste of the potential for a magically active character.

So I got to thinking back about a game I played in several years ago. The GM played more homebrew than by the books, and 95% of his homebrew was never written down, so mechanically speaking it was the worst game I'd ever been in, but he had a lot of really cool ideas both in terms of things characters could do and just storyline-wise. One of his things was basically a shadowrun equivalent of a prestige class, a separate adept path that was focused heavily on guns, that gained lots of special powers. While I don't remember even half of it, the concept seems to me like it bears converting into actual rules.

So here we are, some new adept powers and metamagics supporting the concept. If anyone has suggestions for other powers that would be fitting for this, or thinks anything is particularly out of line, let me know.

The Sharpshooter's Way

Image
New Quality
The Sharpshooter's Way
Cost:10 BP
Adepts who follow the Sharpshooterb's Way are unrivaled in their capability with ranged weaponry. From bows, to throwing knives, to small guns to machine guns, they can typically use them all and use them well. Some seek glory, specializing in trick shots to impress the casual person, and there are some making their way on the matrix as trid stars, most impressive because of the lack of special effects employed. Others see their chosen path as a means to an end, there are lots of problems in the world, but there are few that a well wielded gun won't take make disappear as if by magic. There is another group that is slowly gaining momentum, with an almost religious take on it, who feel that in the void they find just before firing a shot, that they briefly touch the edge of life and death itself. The nature of this experience and whether it means anything or not is highly debated among those in the know.

Characters with this quality may purchase the following items at a 25% discount (rounding as normal), selecting one power per 2 magic points: Improved Physical Attribute, Improved Ability (Combat Skills) Blind Fighting, Combat Sense, Improved Reflexes, plus all powers listed below.

In addition, the character gains +1 initiate grade for Adept Centering, Item Attunement, and Attuned Focii Metamagics.


New Adept Powers

Sidebar: New Power Point Drain Mechanic
Many of these new powers include a new drain mechanic for Adept powers. This mechanic gives powerful new options to the adept, but causes the adept to incur drain, much like a Mage's spell. While these powers do not cost an action to use (unless otherwise stated), they are taxing on the body, and can cause trouble to the adept if they try to use too many too quickly. For every additional drain inducing power used in a single pass, the drain code increases by 1 per power used. So your first power used in the pass uses the drain listed, your second uses drain +1, third uses drain +2, and so on. The drain to be resisted will always be a minimum of one, even in the case of powers that have the drain reduced by successes on an attack test.
Sight Beyond Body
Cost: .5
The adept may project his vision beyond his physical body. As a simple action the adept may opt to see things as if he were standing at any point within 10 meters times his magic plus initiation grade (for example a grade 1 initiate with 4 magic would have a range of 50 meters).

This may bypass physical barriers such as walls, but magical wards will prevent this ability and waste the action. If a creature who can see astrally is viewing the area where the adept chooses to view from, they may notice the anomaly. This requires a perception test with a threshold equal to 1 plus the adept's initiation grade to notice.

As a part of this simple action, the adept may choose to take aim at a target he can see that is blocked to his normal sight, allowing him to negate the blindfire penalty. When using this ability, you suffer drain equal to the number of meters you project your view divided by 15 (round down) to be resisted by Willpower+Charisma.

Prodigious Shooter
Cost: .75 per level (max 3)
Sharpshooter's Way Adepts Only
Characters with this power are capable of tremendous feats of skill beyond even other adepts when wielding firearms. Every rank gives +1 dice pool to all Pistols, Automatics, and Longarms skill checks.

Ricochet Shot
Cost: .5
Sharpshooter's Way Adepts Only
The adept when making a ranged attack may use a free action to opt to make a ricochet shot. A ricochet shot involves having the attack bounce off of something, and redirect to the intended target. The attack is treated as being initiated from the ricochet point, though range is still figured by the distance between you and the target. This allows for potentially bypassing cover, or shooting around corners (relevant penalties for blindfire or other vision modifiers still apply). This effect may only be used with a single shot, and may not be combined with a burst or full auto attack. When using this ability, you suffer drain to be resisted by Willpower+Charisma equal to 8 minus your hits on the attack test.

Phase Shot
Cost: .5
Sharpshooter's Way Adepts Only
The adept when making a ranged attack may opt to make a phase shot. A phase shot can pass through a single physical barrier of the adept's choice. Relevant visibility modifiers still apply. This effect may only be used with a single shot, and may not be combined with a burst or full auto attack. When using this ability, you suffer drain to be resisted by Willpower+Charisma equal to 10 minus your hits on the attack test.

Inertia Shot
Cost: .5
Sharpshooter's Way Adepts Only
Inertia Shot allows the adept to channel his power into his next shot. If the attack hits, he may add his net hits to the number of boxes of damage for knockdown purposes only. If the effective damage exceeds the target's body by more than 50% (for example if the target has 4 body, the effective damage must be at least 6), the target is knocked back 1 meter for every 2 boxes the effective damage exceeded the target's body. This effect may only be used with a single shot, and may not be combined with a burst or full auto attack. When using this ability, you suffer drain to be resisted by Willpower+Charisma equal to 6 minus your hits on the attack test.

Incapacitating Shot
Cost: .5
Sharpshooter's Way Adepts Only
Incapacitating Shot allows the adept to channel his power into his next shot to incapacitate the target rather than kill him. Resolve the attack's damage as normal. After the total damage the target takes is figured, only deal half that damage (round down). The remaining damage is applied to the target's Agility, Strength, or Reaction (chosen by the adept). Lost Strength, Agility and Reaction are restored at a rate of 1 point per minute of rest. If a character's Strength, Agility, or Reaction are reduced to 0, the he is paralyzed and unable to move.

This is most effective against metahumans, against non-metahuman opponents, reduce the ability damage by half. Targets that lack a functional nervous system such as spirits, zombies, and drones are immune to this power . This effect may only be used with a single shot, and may not be combined with a burst or full auto attack. When using this ability, you suffer drain to be resisted by Willpower+Charisma equal to 8 minus your hits on the attack test.

Elemental Shot
Cost: .5
Sharpshooter's Way Adepts Only
Elemental Shot allows the adept to empower his next ranged attack an elemental effect chosen at the time you take this power. Elemental Effects are described on page 163 of SR4 and 164 of Street Magic. This effect may only be used with a single shot, and may not be combined with a burst or full auto attack. When using this ability, you suffer drain to be resisted by Willpower+Charisma equal to 10 minus your hits on the attack test.

Deadeye Sniper
Cost: .5
Sharpshooter's Way Adepts Only
This power allows the adept to make a take aim action without spending the normal simple action. When using this ability, you suffer drain to be resisted by Willpower+Charisma equal to 6 minus your hits on the attack test.


Dual Weapon Specialization
Cost: .25 per level
For every level invested in this power, you may retain one die for both of your attacks before splitting dice pools for attacking with two weapons at once. For example a character with 5 agility, and 5 pistols normally has 10 dice, which is split between 2 pistol shots, for 5 dice in each shot. If the character has 4 levels of dual shot, he would have 4 of those 10 set aside to be used in both shots, with the remaining 6 split up, resulting in 7 dice for each shot.


Quick Assembly
Prerequisite: Attunement (Weapon) Metamagic
Cost: .25
This power allows an adept to make adjustments to his weapon's modifications exceptionally fast. Any armorer test to modify a weapon attuned to you has its interval reduced to be measured in combat rounds. (For example if a test would normally require a Armorer+Logic(5, 1 hour) test, it would instead be treated as a Armorer+Logic(5, 1 combat turn) test. If the test is already measured in combat turns, then the adept is able to automatically succeed on the test and complete it with a single complex action.


Extreme Shot
Cost: .25 per level
This power allows an adept to make shots at ranges beyond the normal extreme for their weapon. For every level invested range of any ranged weapon used is multiplied by an additional 1. (ie at 1 level your range is multiplied by 2, at 2 levels it's x3, etc)


Precision Accuracy
Prerequisite: Adept Centering
Cost: .25 per level
Precision Accuracy allows the adept to add its level to the modifier you may ignore from centering when making a called shot. This bonus is increased by 50% when the called shot is intended to bypass armor rather than target vital areas.


Whirlwind of Bullets
Cost: .5
An adept with this power takes only a -1 penalty for switching targets, and when using suppressive fire the adept may add half his net hits to damage.


New Metamagic
Attuned Focii (Adept Only)
Prerequisite: Attunement (Any Weapon Style)
This metamagic allows you to take any attuned item you currently have, and treat it as a focus. All attuned items of the appropriate type are automatically considered a force 1 weapon focus. You may opt to pay further karma to improve the focus to a higher level, at a rate of 3 karma per force upgrade. This must be paid separately for each attuned item, and any given item may be increased to a maximum force focii equal to half your initiation grade.

This metamagic is an exception to the general rule that an attuned item may not be a focus. It is also an exception to no ranged weapon is capable to be made into a focus, allowing an adept with this metamagic to have a ranged weapon focus.


Superhuman Attributes (Adept Only)
The adept with this metamagic has the power point cost of Improved Physical Attribute reduced to .5 per level, and Improved Reflexes reduced to 1 per level. Additionally, improved physical attribute no longer incurs an increased cost for going above the racial maximum (though you may still not exceed your augmented maximum).



Edit: Some Notes:
Okay update time
-Perfect Attunement was removed due to just being annoying and not having much sense. Hawkeye was removed, and the mechanic for the powers with drain was streamlined to remove the need for it.
-Elemental shot was updated to fit the formatting for the other shots, rather than being an on/off ability like the unarmed elemental strike.
-Several other shots were modified for clarification, and to fit in with the new mechanic.
-All powers except the shots and Prodigious Shooter were made available to all adepts, and most have some utility to non-gun specialized adepts.
-A couple of powers were removed from the Way list.
Last edited by Seerow on Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Username17 »

I suggest going back to the drawing board. As you seemingly acknowledge there just aren't enough power points to get anywhere following this path. And most of the powers you came up with just aren't going to come up that often. You should really combine or drop a lot of these things.

But you also need to take a step back and ask what the fuck you're doing. For fuck's sake you are using those stupidly useless rules from Way of the Adept that no one with any sense allows anyone to use. And secondly, you're basically hammering right front and center into the reality that simple combat buffs are way over priced in SR4.

Combat skills are amongst the worst skills in Shadowrun, covering a ridiculously tiny sliver of the available play space. It's not enough that a shooting skill only affects your attempts to shoot people in combat (an incredibly niche activity to begin with), those skills don't even work with every gun you own. And Adept Powers don't give you a discount on combat skills to make up for the fact that shooting skills are fucking terrible - they actually rub salt in your wounds by charging you extra. And then to make fun of you even more, there are a bunch of Adept powers that give package deal boosts to technical and social skills even though those skills are already awesome.

If you want to make a gun adept viable, you aren't going to be able to manage that by giving people a 25% discount on shitty combat powers. Combat powers already cost four times what could possibly be justified.

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Post by Seerow »

I suggest going back to the drawing board. As you seemingly acknowledge there just aren't enough power points to get anywhere following this path. And most of the powers you came up with just aren't going to come up that often. You should really combine or drop a lot of these things.
The majority of the powers are intended to be balanced with the already existing options. If you think the current balance is defunct, that's a fine opinion to have, but it has absolutely no bearing on this. As for not being able to get anywhere following the path, you aren't intended to be able to max out every skill on the way skill list. It is intended to provide more options, because I felt that adepts were sorely lacking in anything resembling options for someone who doesn't want to use his own hands.
But you also need to take a step back and ask what the fuck you're doing. For fuck's sake you are using those stupidly useless rules from Way of the Adept that no one with any sense allows anyone to use.
Who is nobody with any sense? Most reviews I've seen of it were pretty positive, with the opinion it's the only decent shadowrun product we've seen in years.
Combat skills are amongst the worst skills in Shadowrun, covering a ridiculously tiny sliver of the available play space. It's not enough that a shooting skill only affects your attempts to shoot people in combat (an incredibly niche activity to begin with), those skills don't even work with every gun you own. And Adept Powers don't give you a discount on combat skills to make up for the fact that shooting skills are fucking terrible - they actually rub salt in your wounds by charging you extra. And then to make fun of you even more, there are a bunch of Adept powers that give package deal boosts to technical and social skills even though those skills are already awesome.

If you want to make a gun adept viable, you aren't going to be able to manage that by giving people a 25% discount on shitty combat powers. Combat powers already cost four times what could possibly be justified.
1) Gun Adept is already 'viable' in the sense that you can be a gunbunny with a +3 skill from adept and be doing pretty good for yourself. You are overemphasizing how expensive combat skills in general are as well as how niche shooting is. Yes, it sucks if you spend 100% of your bp on shooting and nothing else, but you shouldn't be doing that regardless. On the other hand, combat skills are the skills that come up most reliably in any Shadowrun game I've been in.

Remember, the way you play the game is not the way everyone else plays the game!

2) 4 times what could be justified? The cost for improved combat skill is already lower than increasing a new skill (when you consider you can get an extra power point for effectively 10 karma with the PP for Metamagic option). Improved Skill powers already make a dip into active for those bonus skill ranks useful for basically everyone.

3) Giving people a 25% discount on some powers isn't intended to 'fix' anything, but rather be a nice bonus for specialization in a given option. Given the 10 BP and that you also get a bonus to some metamagics, it is worth the investment. And once again, this is intended to be balanced against existing options, not be a total revamp of the adept power system like you seem to want.
Last edited by Seerow on Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Username17 »

Who is nobody with any sense? Most reviews I've seen of it were pretty positive, with the opinion it's the only decent shadowrun product we've seen in years.
Never seen a positive review of that piece of trash, and I don't expect to. Even CGL doesn't acknowledge the book as wholly official and you can't use its contents in official games.

The core conceit of the book is that you spend points on something that does absolutely fucking nothing except change the price of other things. In short: the "ways" are just a stupid accounting gimmick where they can make your character stronger or weaker depending on how you spend your points. In short: they are definitionally unbalanced. To make that even more ridiculous, the book doesn't actually acknowledge that various versions of the adept are already over and under par. So you can get a discount on being Punch Man, but it's not enough of a discount to make you not suck ass. But you can also get a discount on being a Hacker Adept, who was already pretty strong; and you can get a discount on a Pornomancer, who was straight over powered to begin with.

Way of the Adept is a worthless book. It is shoddily put together and is a shitty, non-functional hack on the adept rules that doesn't even directly address the actual problems of the adept rules.
1) Gun Adept is already 'viable' in the sense that you can be a gunbunny with a +3 skill from adept and be doing pretty good for yourself.
No. You can't. You can play a rifleman who gets +3 to skill with your fucking rifles. You can play a pistoleer who gets +3 to skill with your pistols. You can't get +3 with being a gunbunny, because the shooting skills have been cut up so fucking tiny. Even if it wasn't for the fact that buying up the bonus on all those skills is intractably expensive, you're not even allowed to get the +3 on all of them as a starting character because your enhancement maximum is half the literal value of the skill and only one skill can start at 6. Without package deal powers like Kinesics you actually can't get a reasonable bonus with any activity that is covered by a range of skills. And for reasons that completely defy explanation, shooting people is five skills.
On the other hand, combat skills are the skills that come up most reliably in any Shadowrun game I've been in.
It honestly doesn't make any difference how often you roll your shooting skills, because of the two-shot problem. Beyond about 12 dice it just doesn't fucking matter how good you are at shooting. Your target has 10-12 wound boxes and probably is wearing 6-10 dice of armor, but only rolling 2-5 dice of defense. Explosive rounds out of an assault rifle's narrow burst do a base of 9 damage, and your target is going to be willing to spend Edge to keep from getting wiped out in one hit. But even if they do, there is essentially no way in hell they'll be able to soak the entire 10-12 damage you're handing out with a single attack. They won't even be able to soak half of it. If you fire once, the chance of them dropping is close to nothing even if you're rolling 20 dice. But if you shoot with two simple actions, the chance of them dropping is close to 100% even if your dicepool is only 12.

The harsh reality is that because of the way non-proportional damage is handled in SR4, being better than "very good" at shooting basically doesn't do anything. Being able to spend a bunch of character points to get a further +1-3 dice on shooting your favorite weapon is actually worthless even if all you do is shoot people.
4 times what could be justified? The cost for improved combat skill is already lower than increasing a new skill (when you consider you can get an extra power point for effectively 10 karma with the PP for Metamagic option)
Yes. Four times. Skills in general are over priced. But we're comparing Adept powers here. Combat skills cost twice what other skills cost, and combat skills are half as good as other skills you'd actually consider boosting (like infiltration or electronic warfare). Within the context of Adepts buying bonus skill dice, advancing Longarms is overpriced by four times.

And that's even before we get to way damage thresholds work, where there's basically no reason to buy bonus skill dice on shooting in the first place.

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Post by Orion »

What's all this about enemy defense pools being in the 2-5 range? When I GMed, at least every other run I would throw down a cyborg with ~12 ranged defense plus some edge. It always made the PCs glad they brought a gunner with 18 dice. (Or a mage, of course...)
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Post by Username17 »

Orion wrote:What's all this about enemy defense pools being in the 2-5 range? When I GMed, at least every other run I would throw down a cyborg with ~12 ranged defense plus some edge. It always made the PCs glad they brought a gunner with 18 dice. (Or a mage, of course...)
Heh. Even in the context of the bad guys throwing down a super cyborg, if they are throwing a 12 die defense pool, whether they are edging or not they are coughing up a complex action to get that pool. That you can beat such a character anyway by switching to wide bursts or having the mage stunbolt the fucker is secondary: if you're spending simple actions to force your enemy to lose complex actions and you have any chance at all of dealing damage on top of that, you've already won.

Even in the extremely niche situation of facing down a cyber assassin on full defense, the extra dice from 12 to 21 really just speed up the inevitable. I'm not going to slap your hands for jumping your attack pool to 15 dice or anything, but the reality is that it doesn't really do much.

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Re: [SR4] The Sharpshooter's Way

Post by JesterZero »

Seerow wrote:So here we are, a new quality, some new adept powers, and metamagics supporting the concept. I figure this forum is familiar with Shadowrun as any, and is more likely to give me a harsh critique of what's here. Though any ideas for additions would also be welcome.
First, what Frank said.

Second, if you're truly trying to balance this against the other "Ways" from CGL's truly painful offering, then strictly on numerical terms, you've jumped the shark. If memory serves, that tract (because calling it a "book" is inaccurate...it had what...2 pages of crunch? 3?) introduced a single exclusive power for each way. You've introduced six just for this one. And on top of that, you've got nearly that many other new general powers just to try to make it work.

On top of that, each Way handed out coupons to less than a dozen abilities. Some didn't give bonuses to any. This one nearly doubles that...I count 19 options...and on top of that, you're making up multiple metamagics for what is essentially a subset of the warriors Way.

So all that to say...my first impression wasn't resignation because you're propping up a broken part of the system. I hang out on Dumpshock...I'm used to that. My first impression was that if I played at your table and I played an adept, I had better play a Way of the Sharpshooter adept...because otherwise I'm not the GM's favorite.
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Post by Seerow »

First, for dice pools seen in play, in our games lighting modifiers, cover modifiers, etc frequently come into play, so you're usually looking at a negative dice pool modifier of -3 to -8. Also your typical enemy has 5-6 defense dice simply because wires are so cheap and easy to get. A higher class enemy has 9-12 dice -before- dodging and giving up his complex action. So yeah, your guy with 9-12 dice, he can hit something occasionally, but he's not going full auto called shotting and killing someone with each shot either. So yes, specialization does help.


Second, if you're truly trying to balance this against the other "Ways" from CGL's truly painful offering, then strictly on numerical terms, you've jumped the shark. If memory serves, that tract (because calling it a "book" is inaccurate...it had what...2 pages of crunch? 3?) introduced a single exclusive power for each way. You've introduced six just for this one. And on top of that, you've got nearly that many other new general powers just to try to make it work.
Consider it a combination of the way and the unarmed adept powers. Had the Ways been released at first, I'm sure that stuff like elemental strike and distance strike would have been included as a part of the physical adept way or something like that.

I actually started this as a set of new powers (the specific shots like ricochet and phase shot, as a parallel to the options unarmed adepts get), and then it grew from there as I came up with new abilities that could be potentially wanted or useful. The shots are a bit cheaper than the unarmed equivalent powers in some cases, but they also have the drawback of drain.
On top of that, each Way handed out coupons to less than a dozen abilities. Some didn't give bonuses to any. This one nearly doubles that...I count 19 options...and on top of that, you're making up multiple metamagics for what is essentially a subset of the warriors Way.
The number of options available for discount don't really matter, because you're limited to magic/2 actually gaining the discount. The options are merely there to allow a bit of choice. It doesn't actually affect the power level at all. I could cull a few of those out if you think that the limited options are strictly necessary, but I don't see where options hurt.
So all that to say...my first impression wasn't resignation because you're propping up a broken part of the system. I hang out on Dumpshock...I'm used to that. My first impression was that if I played at your table and I played an adept, I had better play a Way of the Sharpshooter adept...because otherwise I'm not the GM's favorite.
Incidentally. I'm neither the GM nor the person intending to play this. The concept came up in session, I decided to put something together for fun. We have a new player coming in who may or may not end up using it, but it's not like I'm setting out to make some super special GM favorite path.



Anyway, I did make some changes. Streamlined the shots a bit more, and standardized the drain mechanic, and cut a couple of the metamagics. Neither of the new metamagics is really exclusive to this, with attuned focii being useful the the melee adept as well, and superhuman attributes is useful for any physically inclined adept. Will be editing the original post momentarily. Several of the non-exclusive way powers are also useful for a melee adept, and the only exclusive powers are now the special shots.
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Post by Whipstitch »

Yeah, these days I always roll with houseruled combat skills. At my table, Close Combat and Firearms are single skills and Dodge* and Improved Combat Ability both received the ol' Yeller treatment ages ago. Once upon a time I used to dabble with a slightly restructured Firearms skill "group"--I use scare quotes because really, it was basically just splitting things into "guns you can hide and guns you can't"-- but that was mostly because I had a couple gun nut players that'd get all evangelical on my ass whenever they suspected that I don't feel deeply offended when people equate a clip with a magazine.


*Eliminating Dodge doesn't really fix anything, but I kill it anyway because frankly it just doesn't have any good reason to live. It overlaps with Gymnastics for the purposes of defending against gun fire, which is a tough hand to be dealt since unlike pure combat skills Gymnastics is actually a real skill that is good for things. Thus, its big selling point is that for the cost of a single skill it lets you get those full defense vs. bullet dice while also rolling skill twice vs. anyone dumb enough to bring a knife to a shadowrun game. As far as defining features go, that actually hits me as a bad thing since melee has it tough enough in a future setting. Removing Dodge at least helps Close Combat keep its no-actions-required melee defense niche to itself. Moral victories aren't much, but they beat getting nothing.[/i]
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