The Shadowrun Situation

TheFlatline · Post by **TheFlatline** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:18 pm

That's why I used the term "technobabble". I'm cool with metaphasic quantum cloud prediction allowing for unparalleled data bandwidth resulting in a wireless simsense matrix. I actually don't expect the Internet 60 years from now to be even remotely recognizable. IPv6 in theory should provide "enough" IP addresses, but then again they said that about IPv4 too. In a world where every nanite has it's own unique global address, even IPv6 is going to buckle eventually. At that point, I'm *totally* cool with abstraction so long as it makes sense within the world.

Shit has to interact with other elements of the world though at least semi-logically though. I mean, kind of by definition magical artifacts from a previous age are either rare or unique. It might actually be cheaper and easier to figure out a way to replicate a lot of what magic did/does through technology. I mean sure I could fire a jet of flames out of my hand with Magic, but I could also train 50 soldiers to do the same thing with a flamethrower, probably at the same cost as it would take to recruit, train, indoctrinate, and deploy a single combat mage. And after taking one casualty, you either have 49 soldiers or no mages left.

crizh · Post by **crizh** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:20 pm

As far as I recall the version you released was exactly the same as the one we received for playtesting. I don't recall getting any feedback on my comments or seeing any of them integrated into the document you released.

(I can't see Jason having bothered to deal with any of the feedback he received for PACKS if I'm honest.)

I've got a similar series of PM's with Jason that convinced me fairly swiftly that he was little more than a cynical mouthpiece for management.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:16 am

Ancient History wrote: On the other side of things, there are times to remember that you're designing a game and not engineering a real-world system. Unwired was a nasty mess because we were working off something that was broken to begin with, like plugging more cords into a sparking multisocket. Trying to add real-world computing elements and fictional hacker stuff to a system that already didn't do well to emulate either...it might have been better to stay more abstract, is what I'm saying.

There are many reasons that Unwired was crap. But the primary one was that it was an attempt to make balance by moving targets. It was like the Skip Williams answers about Polymorph - where he switched back and forth between the Octopus interpretation and the T. Rex interpretation depending on what he thought would make people go away and leave him alone. While obfuscating how things work may make people shut up and leave you alone, it won't make a playable product.

Adding complexity until people stop being able to tell you how the system is broken mostly ends up with simultaneously increasing complexity to the point where people stop being able to tell you how it works at all.

-Username17

JongWK · Post by **JongWK** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:13 am

JM Hardy wrote: And finally, what Bobby could do is what the people who wrote SoLA drafts did--either release their unedited drafts, or make sure they contact the editors. Notice how Jong-Won Kim made a point about doing that. All Bobby had to do was put out unedited drafts, and then he is not taking advantage of the editorial infrastructure that improved his documents.

Jason H.

That "editorial infrastructure" he likes to wrap himself with is the same one that was responsible for sinking SoLA and ruining several SR4 books.

TheFlatline · Post by **TheFlatline** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:04 am

JongWK wrote:
JM Hardy wrote: And finally, what Bobby could do is what the people who wrote SoLA drafts did--either release their unedited drafts, or make sure they contact the editors. Notice how Jong-Won Kim made a point about doing that. All Bobby had to do was put out unedited drafts, and then he is not taking advantage of the editorial infrastructure that improved his documents.

Jason H.
That "editorial infrastructure" he likes to wrap himself with is the same one that was responsible for sinking SoLA and ruining several SR4 books.

Yeah, considering how poorly edited some of the recent SR4 books are I wouldn't hold up SR's editing infrastructure as a paragon.

Otakusensei · Post by **Otakusensei** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:22 pm

JongWK wrote:
JM Hardy wrote: And finally, what Bobby could do is what the people who wrote SoLA drafts did--either release their unedited drafts, or make sure they contact the editors. Notice how Jong-Won Kim made a point about doing that. All Bobby had to do was put out unedited drafts, and then he is not taking advantage of the editorial infrastructure that improved his documents.

Jason H.
That "editorial infrastructure" he likes to wrap himself with is the same one that was responsible for sinking SoLA and ruining several SR4 books.

In all fairness he was only a part of the failing infrastructure back then, it's only been in the last few years he's been able to step up the progressive level of decline to our current levels. Just think, we'll never even know the names of all the Shadowrun products that have not happened thanks to him!

JongWK · Post by **JongWK** » Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:35 pm

*cough*

Juton · Post by **Juton** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:02 am

It's been a while since I checked in, but from checking the web, Catalyst will keep the licence for a while. I remember hearing rumours about other companies vying for either the Battletech or Shadowrun licences, does any one have any gossip about attempts made by other gaming companies to try and get these licences?

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:48 pm

As far as I know, as soon as it became apparent Topps wasn't going to clean house everybody just shrugged and went about their business.

On an unrelated note, I think somebody might have actually used my free SR adventure from a couple years back as a convention game, which is horrifying. https://sites.google.com/a/marscon.net/ ... /shadowrun

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:04 pm

Why is that horrifying to you? O.o
also, did the people from the SRO contact you? o.O

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:46 pm

1) It's not a great adventure at the best of times, and I have no idea how people are going to run it with a group they don't know.

2) No, I have heard nothing from SRO.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:28 pm

Quote from Primetide from Shadowrun Online himself:
"We have contacted Catalyst--all the rest including Tom Dowd approached us. As thius is a purely volunatyr, purely unpaid position, I think it is best if people who are interested approach us, as we have little to offer in terms of recruitment incentives
But we are happy to be recommended"
http://www.cliffhanger-productions.com/ ... 59#msg1359
If anybody should have any kind of interest in something like this . .
*glances at Ancient and Troll*

LaughingMan2070 · Post by **LaughingMan2070** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:32 pm

Ancient History wrote:As far as I know, as soon as it became apparent Topps wasn't going to clean house everybody just shrugged and went about their business.

In fact, CGL just sent out a notice on how they have paid back all their freelancer and printer debt and if anyone is missing a payment to contact them. If only forced bankruptcy had worked, justice would have been done!

Not to worry, Dave Stansel-Garner and Jennifer Harding have come to the rescue. Our white knights that were wronged by the nefarious deeds at Catalyst jumped ship to a whole new breed of gaming company, Sandstorm Productions, to restore honor and truth in the gaming industry. Well, that really didn't work out and Sandstorm is going bankrupt itself.

Black Jack Rackham · Post by **Black Jack Rackham** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:42 pm

LaughingMan2070 wrote: In fact, CGL just sent out a notice on how they have paid back all their freelancer and printer debt and if anyone is missing a payment to contact them.

Yea, actually that happened because (among other things) I made a quite pubic mention that, in point of fact, CGL had NOT paid me, so they did a bit of scrambling and said all would be resolved. I'm still holding my breath...

Mark

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:47 pm

LaughingMan2070 wrote:Not to worry, Dave Stansel-Garner and Jennifer Harding have come to the rescue. Our white knights that were wronged by the nefarious deeds at Catalyst jumped ship to a whole new breed of gaming company, Sandstorm Productions, to restore honor and truth in the gaming industry. Well, that really didn't work out and Sandstorm is going bankrupt itself.

Oi, 'tard. This is not news. Jen and Sandstorm Productions LLC parted ways year. It's a pity, but these things happen.

Neurosis · Post by **Neurosis** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:53 pm

Black Jack Rackham wrote:
LaughingMan2070 wrote: In fact, CGL just sent out a notice on how they have paid back all their freelancer and printer debt and if anyone is missing a payment to contact them.
Yea, actually that happened because (among other things) I made a quite pubic mention that, in point of fact, CGL had NOT paid me, so they did a bit of scrambling and said all would be resolved. I'm still holding my breath...

Mark

Sorry, clarify who are you?

Edit: Nevermind, looked it up on Dumpshock.

You did a lot of work for Catalyst, I hope they get you paid up soon, man.

Juton · Post by **Juton** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:05 pm

Could I get a clarification about something. LaughingMan2070 says CGL claims to have to have paid all their freelancers and publishers, although that doesn't seem true as of this moment. Has CGL paid back everyone except for the people they don't like, or is it a big lie and they haven't paid anyone back at all?

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:15 pm

Juton wrote:Could I get a clarification about something. LaughingMan2070 says CGL claims to have to have paid all their freelancers and publishers, although that doesn't seem true as of this moment. Has CGL paid back everyone except for the people they don't like, or is it a big lie and they haven't paid anyone back at all?

Loren Coleman lost a bunch of important documents and apparently keeps most of his accounting documents "somewhere in his car". It would not surprise me at all if Catalyst has paid all of the invoices that weren't lost.

There is evidence that many such invoices have been lost on purpose, but we're seriously in the territory of incompetence being indistinguishable from malice and I don't really care.

-Username17

LaughingMan2070 · Post by **LaughingMan2070** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:30 pm

Ancient History wrote: Oi, 'tard. This is not news. Jen and Sandstorm Productions LLC parted ways year. It's a pity, but these things happen.

Yeah, and coincidentally they keep happening when Dave is involved. Huh. I'm sure the rest of Sandstorm was very ho-hum when a bunch of surprise debts showed up....

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:37 pm

And I'm sure Loren was very happy to buy his kids iPods out of Catalyst funds while he was stiffing printers and freelancers. They'd be better off without him.

What Dave Stansel did or did not do at Sandstorm I have no knowledge of. I had one freelance gig with them, turned in my work and was paid. Whatever troubles they have had beyond that are not my business or concern, but they did right by me.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:56 pm

So, Mr.Derie, Mr.Trollman, other people, what do you think about the idea of SRO?

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:49 pm

Don't know, don't care, have not been paying attention.

Otakusensei · Post by **Otakusensei** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:05 pm

SRO would have been a great idea three years ago. You can say that for a lot of things Shadowrun related.

Now you have the ship steered by the dregs of CGL and the die hard fans, who by this point qualify as undead.

Neurosis · Post by **Neurosis** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:06 pm

I've heard Tom Dowd is on board as a consultant actually, so there's that, although it's an unpaid volunteer position so I'm not entirely sure how much he'll be involved.

Kot · Post by **Kot** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:29 pm

I started reading Seattle 2072, and there's one question I have: Who the hell is 'Khan-A-Saur'?