[SR4] Street Samuraizing

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Fucks
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Post by Fucks »

FrankTrollman wrote:
Next up, the Zombie Upriding. The Shedim are evil spirits that can only manifest in our world by possessing dead bodies. Once in the mortal world, they attack people and eat brains. This is totally different from the Loa Zombies, Ghouls, Corps Cadavres, and Wendigo that Shadowrun already had. Which were spirits possessed into corpses that ate human flesh, crazy goblinized people with super strength who ate human flesh, mindless corpses animated by enchanting rituals, and humans killed and then infected with a virus that reanimated them with super strength and a need to eat human flesh, respectively. Not really sure what the Shedim were for, considering that there was already seriously four different flavors of zombie uprising you could do with the magic that was already around, but whatever.
Come on, let's label Shedim as "evil spirits from out space inhabitating corpses" and eat brains and we're fine. :mrgreen:
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Post by Fucks »

FrankTrollman wrote:
Stahlseele wrote:low willpower is bad if you have an enemy with lower attribute(willpower) spell.
you have problems resisting and every time it's harder and once you hit 0 willpower you are basically paralyzed if i remember correctly.
That is meaningless. Anyone who really cares about eliminating enemies with spells is going to use Stun Bolt. Because it only needs a single hit to fill in 10 boxes of stun when cast at Force 9, and because it only has 3 points of Drain. If someone hits you with a Stunbolt, you will go down. They are rolling Magic + Spellcasting + Foci + Mentor Bonuses + Spirit Aid, and you are rolling just your Willpower (plus Counterspelling if you have an ally mage in the room). If they get a single net hit on you, you go down. So you go down. It's really simple.
It's really simple. And really bad game design.
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Post by Username17 »

Fucks wrote:
FrankTrollman wrote:If they get a single net hit on you, you go down. So you go down. It's really simple.
It's really simple. And really bad game design.
what's the problem. Shadorun is a fairly lethal game. If you spend an entire complex action and take drain to perform an action in combat, and your target doesn't fall over, things are going horribly wrong. If you shoot people with two bursts from a sub machine gun, they will go down. And that doesn't require drain at all.

The combat rounds in Shadowrun are way too short (3 seconds is basically stupid considering how much shit is supposed to happen during a combat round), and people go down too easily. But within the combat system that already works like that, what else could attack spells possibly do? The bad design part is where you shoot targets with fire bolts and they don't go down. That is bullshit.

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Post by Whipstitch »

Which, incidentally, is part of why the Armor spell is so freaking bad. It's a glowing "I IS A MAGE!" sign that takes a complex action to apply and doesn't do anywhere near enough good to warrant wasting a combat action. Same deal with Poltergeist or any other big dumb obvious effect that doesn't actually win anything on its own and has no utility to speak of. Shadowrun is a system with piddly shit that also kills or at least maims you horribly for fucking around with piddly shit when you should be shooting people or hijacking their minds.
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Post by Silent Wayfarer »

So here's the ork Sam I came up with.

Samuel Vega
Metatype: Ogre (Ork Metavariant) (20 BP)

Attributes (170 + 20 BP)
BOD 5/9 (10 BP)
AGI 5(7)/6 (40 BP)
REA 5(9)/6 (40 BP)
STR 4(6)/8 (10 BP)
CHA 2/5 (10 BP)
INT 5/6 (40 BP)
LOG 2/6 (10 BP)
WIL 2/6 (10 BP)
INI 10(14)/12
EDG 3/6 (20 BP)

Skills (150 BP)
Gymnastics 6 (Gymnastic Dodge) (26 BP)
Unarmed 4 (Krav Maga) (18 BP)
Automatics 4 (Assault Rifles) (18 BP)
Heavy Weapons 4 (Grenade Launchers) (18 BP)
Perception 4 (Visual) (18 BP)
Infiltration 4 (16 BP)
Palming 1 (Hiding Guns) (6 BP)
First Aid 1 (EMT) (6 BP)
Climbing 1 (4 BP)
Etiquette 1 (4 BP)
Armorer 1 (4 BP)
Throwing Weapons 1 (4 BP)
Data Search 1 (4 BP)
Pilot Groundcraft 1 (4 BP)

Knowledge Skills (1 BP)
Professional: Military 6
Professional: Business 4 (Logistics)
Street: Street Culture 4
Street: PMCs 4
Street: Seattle Underground 1
Interest: Cooking 1
Interest: Guns 1
Language: English N

Positive Qualities (20)
Ambidextrous (5 BP)
Erased (5 BP)
Martial Arts (Krav Maga x2: Take Aim and Ready Weapon as Free Actions) (10 BP)
Restricted Gear (SPARTAN Armor) (5 BP)

Negative Qualities (-35)
SINner (5 BP)
In Debt (30 BP)

Gear (280k) (50 BP)
SH Alphaware Wired Reflexes 2 (2.88E, 32k)
SH Alphaware Reaction Enhancers 2 (0.57E, 20k)
SH Attention Coprocessors 3 (0.36E, 4.5k)
R2 Cybereyes (0.3E, 0.75k + 6.5k)
- Ultrasound Sensor (2 Cap, 1k)
- Vision Enhancement 3 (3 Cap, 4.5k)
- Smartlink (3 Cap, 1k)
R2 Cyberears (0.3E, 0.75k + 9.5k)
- Audio Enhancement 3 (3 Cap, 4.5k)
- Balance Augmenter (4 Cap, 5k)
- Datajack (1 Cap, 0.5k)
[4.41E, 73.25k]

SH Enhanced Articulation (0.36E. 20k)
SH Muscle Augmentation 2 (0.48E, 7k)
SH Muscle Toner 2 (0.48E, 8k)
SH Synthacardium 3 (0.36E, 15k)
SH Orthoskin 1 (0.3E, 15k)
SH Electroshock (0.3E, 12.5k)
[1.14E, 77.5k]

2x Machine Pistols: Ares Crusader (1.625k) x2
- External Smartgun (Top Mount) (0.4k)
- Personalized Grip (-1) (0.1k)
- Suppressor (0.3k)
- Concealable Holster (75)
- Skinlink (50)

Assault Rifle: AK-98 (1k +1.15k)
- External Smartgun (0.4k)
- Foregrip + Sling (-2) (60)
- Shock Pad (-1) (50)
- Gas Vent 3 (-3) (0.4k)
- Personalized Grip (-1) (0.1k)
- Skinlink (50)

Assault Rifle: Ares Alpha (1.7k + 4.35k)
- Foregrip + Sling (60)
- Shock Pad (50)
- Gas Vent 3 (0.4k)
- Personalized Grip (0.1k)
- High Velocity (3.4k)
- Firing Selection Change for grenade launcher: SS to SA (0.3k)
- Skinlink (50)

M79B1 LAW x4 (3k)

Ammo (18k)
50x HE Grenades (2.25k)
50x Frag Grenades (1.75k)
50x Thermal Smoke Grenades (1.75k)
50x Smoke Grenades (1.5k)
10x Neurostun Gas Grenades (0.8k)
10x Nausea Gas Grenades (0.45k)
10x Flashbang (0.3k)
1x Flashpak (0.2k)
2000x Regular Ammo (4k)
500x Stick and Shock (4k)

Lined Coat (0.7k + 1k)
- PPP Forearm Guards (0.2k)
- PPP Helmet (0.1k)
- PPP Leg and Arm Casings (0.35k)
- PPP Shin Guards (0.15k)
- PPP Vitals Protector (0.2k)

SPARTAN Armor (Heavy Military Armor) (20k + 30k)
- Military Helmet (10k)
- Gyromount (4 Cap, 4k)
- YNT SoftWeave Armor (2k)
- Hydraulic Jacks 5 (6 Cap, 7.5k)
- Chemical Seal (4 Cap, 5k)
- Nonconductivity 6 (3 Cap, 1.2k)
- Fire Resistance 3 (1 Cap, 0.3k)

2 Months Low Lifestyle (4k)
R4 Fake SIN ("Samwell Haight", Bounty Hunter) (4k)
- R4 Concealed Carry License (0.4k)

Renraku Sensei (1k)
- Renraku Ichi OS (0.6k)
BTL Sim Module (RAS Override deactivated) (250)
Subvocal Mike (50)

Biomonitor (0.3k)
R6 Medkit (0.6k)
- 2 refills (0.1k)

Glue Sprayer (0.15k)
Gas Mask (0.2k)

Grapple Gun (0.5k)
Standard Rope (1km) (0.5k)

Lots of ninja flippiness, perception, guns, kung fu and stealth. I picked Automatics and Heavy Weapons because they seemed the most versatile. Since combat is his thing, I tried to make sure he could apply his combat power in as many arenas as possible. Among other things, I'm wondering how firing dual bursts from two machine pistols will work out.

Any feedback would be appreciated.
Last edited by Silent Wayfarer on Fri May 04, 2012 5:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by OgreBattle »

Could I make a throwing adept that can two shot people equally well?

Is dodging gunfire something that's a waste of resources?
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Post by Username17 »

OgreBattle wrote:Could I make a throwing adept that can two shot people equally well?
Throwing is problematic. You actually can get enough in power throw that you can one-shot people with a thrown ax. However, it's fairly expensive and that basically puts you in the same boat as the guy with stun bolt in any case, because throwing shit uses up your whole action (as opposed to shooting, which is only half an action).
Is dodging gunfire something that's a waste of resources?
Absolutely not. Dodging gunfire is fairly effective. In large part because unlike magic, you are actually frequently subjected to mooks with guns - 8 die attacks and even 6 die attacks are not uncommon. But also because it's easy to pile on bonuses to your defense pool.

Basically, if you have more initiative passes than your opponents, you can burn a pass on Gymnastic Dodge and add your Gymnastics (which should be 7 or more thanks to Synthacardium) to your Reaction for defense tests. While you lose dice for wide bursts and repeat attacks, you can actually get very big defense pools and basically flip around while mook enemies shoot at your like they were Cobra command.

This contrasts hugely with magic defense, where all the augmentations are on the caster's side and you're asked to roll an unaugmented and useless attribute and possibly add the unaugmented skill of another character. Here you get to add your augmented skill to your augmented stat and roll a fuck tonne of dice and actually win the defense test.

It's really soak that is mostly a waste of time. You want the Body of 3 so you can wear a Stealth Suit without penalty, but beyond that you're probably going down in two shots anyway if people actually hit you.

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Post by Whipstitch »

Yeah, the nicest thing I have to say about soak is that orks give a decent discount on Body so you can at least hit Bod4+Ballistic10 for dirt cheap. It won't save you from someone competent and well-equipped, but it can help you scoot through suppression fire from a machine pistol with little more than bruises. Basically, armor prevents wound modifiers, not deaths.
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Post by Silent Wayfarer »

On another note, is it worth the 30 BP surcharge to be an elf facemage, or would humans be roughly as efficient?
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Post by Stahlseele »

No,for a Face-Mage, elves are perfect.
Plus to charisma for both the drain in the right tradition and for the social skills and agility for non magical combat skills too?
Can't get much better.

Also: Dodge is better than soak, because damage not taken is better than damage resisted.
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TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.

Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
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Post by Neurosis »

"It's really soak that is mostly a waste of time. You want the Body of 3 so you can wear a Stealth Suit without penalty, but beyond that you're probably going down in two shots anyway if people actually hit you. "

I agreed with much of what you said but not this.

This has really not been my experience. Cybertanks and trolls at my table have reliably soaked most small arms fire most of the time with soak dice pools in the high teens to mid 20s between body, worn armor (including layered FFBA), and cyber-gadgets. (A long narrow burst from an assault rifle is another story, but that kind of thing is a bit of a nuclear option for a GM to begin with, and is the kind of thing you should probably spend Edge to make damn-well fucking sure you dodge.)

@Silent Wayfarer: That looks like a very solid character.
Last edited by Neurosis on Fri May 04, 2012 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Stahlseele »

One of the most lamented things in SR4 is, that replacing bits of your body with metal parts makes you hard to kill . . preposterous!
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Shrapnel wrote:
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.

Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
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Post by Ice9 »

Schwarzkopf wrote:"It's really soak that is mostly a waste of time. You want the Body of 3 so you can wear a Stealth Suit without penalty, but beyond that you're probably going down in two shots anyway if people actually hit you. "

I agreed with much of what you said but not this.

This has really not been my experience. Cybertanks and trolls at my table have reliably soaked most small arms fire most of the time with soak dice pools in the high teens to mid 20s between body, worn armor (including layered FFBA), and cyber-gadgets.
True - in fact, you don't even need to be cybered up - Body 6 + FFA + PPP gets you a soak pool of 20 or so, with no cyber or military armor needed. That's enough to shrug off weaker attacks and change the "two shot" thing to a "3-4 shot" thing.

I think the valley between 3 Body and that might be less productive though - like Edge, it seems like you either want just enough to survive with, or a significantly large amount.
Last edited by Ice9 on Fri May 04, 2012 7:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Username17 »

A long narrow burst from an assault rifle is another story, but that kind of thing is a bit of a nuclear option for a GM to begin with, and is the kind of thing you should probably spend Edge to make damn-well fucking sure you dodge.
How is that a nuclear option? It's one more point of damage than a long burst from the sub machine guns that the Professional Rating 2 grunts are depicted with in the basic book. We're seriously talking about people using basic equipment that law enforcement and paramilitary opponents are supposed to have.

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Post by Whipstitch »

It doesn't help that by the RAW weapon mounts do not suffer negative recoil modifiers either. So if a Steel Lynx is going to fire at all it may as well give you the full Rambo treatment because it is literally rolling plasteel weapons platform and will never, ever flinch even when firing a stock AK-97 on full auto. So it's a pretty good thing that a stock combat drone isn't a terribly accurate opponent given that it isn't hard or expensive at all to jack up their damage values into crazy go nuts territory.
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Post by OgreBattle »

FrankTrollman wrote:
OgreBattle wrote:Could I make a throwing adept that can two shot people equally well?
Throwing is problematic. You actually can get enough in power throw that you can one-shot people with a thrown ax. However, it's fairly expensive and that basically puts you in the same boat as the guy with stun bolt in any case, because throwing shit uses up your whole action (as opposed to shooting, which is only half an action).
Is dodging gunfire something that's a waste of resources?
Absolutely not. Dodging gunfire is fairly effective. In large part because unlike magic, you are actually frequently subjected to mooks with guns - 8 die attacks and even 6 die attacks are not uncommon. But also because it's easy to pile on bonuses to your defense pool.

Basically, if you have more initiative passes than your opponents, you can burn a pass on Gymnastic Dodge and add your Gymnastics (which should be 7 or more thanks to Synthacardium) to your Reaction for defense tests. While you lose dice for wide bursts and repeat attacks, you can actually get very big defense pools and basically flip around while mook enemies shoot at your like they were Cobra command.

This contrasts hugely with magic defense, where all the augmentations are on the caster's side and you're asked to roll an unaugmented and useless attribute and possibly add the unaugmented skill of another character. Here you get to add your augmented skill to your augmented stat and roll a fuck tonne of dice and actually win the defense test.

It's really soak that is mostly a waste of time. You want the Body of 3 so you can wear a Stealth Suit without penalty, but beyond that you're probably going down in two shots anyway if people actually hit you.

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hmmm, so the best way to be a Street Samurai is to be the dudes in Contra Image
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Post by Stahlseele »

Shadowrun is a game of Glass-Cannons.
You do not want to be where the damage is.
Because that gets very lethal very fast too.
And on the other hand, you can dish out serious damage without too much of a Problem.
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Shrapnel wrote:
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.

Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
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Post by Whipstitch »

OgreBattle wrote:hmmm, so the best way to be a Street Samurai is to be the dudes in Contra
Pretty much; I actually consider the role of heavy fire support to be best filled by a Rigger in many situations while the Samurai is more of a watch dog. Still, a well-built Samurai is a good asset on the team given that a strong focus on attribute boosters and senseware makes you pretty good at a number of things. You can fight, sneak, drive, spot the bads and maybe even talk OK if you squeezed in some Tailored Pheromones. Odds are good people will be happy to have you around.

Anyway, if I want a character to be tougher than usual I lean towards just grabbing a Pain Editor via restricted gear and pairing it with a troll/ork metatype or a human with an armored cyberlimb rather than paying through the nose to max out Body and Orthoskin. It's strictly a luxury option but freeing up the bps isn't that terribly hard compared to maxxing Bod and you get a fairly neat situational power for your trouble. That sounds like faint praise, I know, but the alternatives are mostly a bunch of trap options like Toughness, Will To Live, High Pain Tolerance and Damage Compensators, all of which are basically overpriced flavor powers.
Last edited by Whipstitch on Sat May 05, 2012 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Neurosis »

FrankTrollman wrote:
A long narrow burst from an assault rifle is another story, but that kind of thing is a bit of a nuclear option for a GM to begin with, and is the kind of thing you should probably spend Edge to make damn-well fucking sure you dodge.
How is that a nuclear option? It's one more point of damage than a long burst from the sub machine guns that the Professional Rating 2 grunts are depicted with in the basic book. We're seriously talking about people using basic equipment that law enforcement and paramilitary opponents are supposed to have.

-Username17
Sorry, I meant to say "full burst", not long burst, with enough attack pool dice and recoil compensation to make it stick. A combat character should probably be reliably able to dodge a long narrow or to soak a long wide, but not the other way around. Soaking a long narrow or dodging a long wide usually isn't happening.

(I generally have my NPC goons use short wide with auto weapons. It's fairly likely to hit, and it doesn't do a ton of damage, but it doesn't usually do no damage either. I also figure it's their corpsec training; short, controlled bursts, conserve ammo, and so on.)
Last edited by Neurosis on Sat May 05, 2012 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Fucks »

FrankTrollman wrote:
Fucks wrote:
FrankTrollman wrote:If they get a single net hit on you, you go down. So you go down. It's really simple.
It's really simple. And really bad game design.
what's the problem.
Every action and counter-action is resolved with a dice pool coming from two sources. Only resisting magic is usually resisted with by a dice pool from only one source (the attribute - and don't start with counterspelling...).
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Post by UmaroVI »

OgreBattle wrote:Could I make a throwing adept that can two shot people equally well?

Is dodging gunfire something that's a waste of resources?
Yes, and maybe.

The key to making a throwing adept that doesn't suck balls is to have a way to throw two throwing weapons per pass. If you can't do that you will suck balls. There are several ways to do this effectively; the Quickdraw adept power, the Iaijutsu martial arts manuever, and the Krav Maga martial art.

Quickdraw eats .5 PP, but is the best - it's a Reaction+Weapon Skill (2) test to draw and throw a ranged weapon as a single Simple action, which is not hard to make consistently and means that you can almost always throw twice a pass.

Iaijutsu is the same, but cheaper (only 2 bp, requires you have a martial art) but not as good since it's a 3 threshold, not 2.

Krav Maga is the shittiest because it's 5 bp, and while it is automatic, it's a Free Action - and you only get one per round. You can still use it effectively if you restrict yourself to throwing weapons that you can ready more than one of in a single Ready Weapon action but that burns.

The other thing you need is to not use shitty thrown weapons. Missile Mastery lets you murder people with paperclips which is obviously pro. Boomerangs have really REALLY long range. Combat Axes do a lot of damage (but have shitty range). Molotov Cocktails (especially with called shots) are good for cutting through hardened-armor targets [vehicles, drones, and spirits]. Nets are good for stalling people. Everything else is basically shit.

Here's a throwing adept: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RL6 ... 6DmuI/edit

Do note that this character is designed with Shadowrun Missions in mind; you can do a lot better if less of the optional rules that make adepts suck less are banned.

So far as dodging gunfire goes: depends what you are fighting. Dodging gunfire is useful when you are fighting

1) A bunch of people

2) Who suck

3) who are using shitty weapons

4) and shitty tactics.

If you go up against a bunch of security guards with non-automatic heavy pistols who aren't smart enough to stop shooting at you when you dodge and shoot your teammates instead, dodging is good.

However, you can easily pump your attack way higher than anyone can get defense, because of the nature of where the bonuses are. Also, Wide Bursts from automatic weapons will chug through your dodge pool really fast. So if you are going up against opponents with light ware and good automatic weapons - and especially against people who are smart enough to use wolfpack tactics - dodging is a bad idea and the only way to win is to kill them first.
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Post by UmaroVI »

Silent Wayfarer wrote:So here's the ork Sam I came up with.

Samuel Vega
Metatype: Ogre (Ork Metavariant) (20 BP)
Ogre gets you -20% lifestyle and Distinctive Style over ork. Some GM's interpret Distinctive Style as fuck you forever you will die immediately and every corporation and government knows where you live and is coming for you the second you do anything, so check with your GM about that one.

Attributes (170 + 20 BP)
BOD 5/9 (10 BP)
AGI 5(7)/6 (40 BP)
REA 5(9)/6 (40 BP)
STR 4(6)/8 (10 BP)
CHA 2/5 (10 BP)
INT 5/6 (40 BP)
LOG 2/6 (10 BP)
WIL 2/6 (10 BP)
INI 10(14)/12
EDG 3/6 (20 BP)
Willpower is actually fairly important because it gives you stun boxes, and you are more likely to go down from stun damage than physical damage. It's worth having odd willpower because this rounds up. Strength is largely irrelevant except for particular specialists. -1 Strength +1 Willpower is my recommendation.

Skills (150 BP)
Gymnastics 6 (Gymnastic Dodge) (26 BP)
Unarmed 4 (Krav Maga) (18 BP)
Automatics 4 (Assault Rifles) (18 BP)
Heavy Weapons 4 (Grenade Launchers) (18 BP)
Perception 4 (Visual) (18 BP)
Infiltration 4 (16 BP)
Palming 1 (Hiding Guns) (6 BP)
First Aid 1 (EMT) (6 BP)
Climbing 1 (4 BP)
Etiquette 1 (4 BP)
Armorer 1 (4 BP)
Throwing Weapons 1 (4 BP)
Data Search 1 (4 BP)
Pilot Groundcraft 1 (4 BP)
Skills you don't really need:
Pilot Groundcraft. You can default to 8 dice. 10 dice versus 8 dice on a task that isn't your job doesn't really matter.
Data Search: You don't even have Browse. You can buy a commlink with an agent that can Google Search for you for less than 4 bp of resources.
Throwing Weapons: Throwing grenades in SR is a retard move because of the time they take to detonate. Airburst Link or don't bother. Throwing Weapons are for specific adept builds only.

Since the smallest weapons you have are Machine Pistols, I really recommend more Palming so you can shove them up your ass more effectively. Ass guns are usually important in SR.

I'm not a big fan of going that hardcore for dodging and I think you'd be better served with a better Automatics skill. Passive defenses are generally better than Active defenses, and killing people before they can shoot you is generally better than trying to dodge them and hoping they don't have one of the many ways of hitting you anyways.

Knowledge Skills (1 BP)
Professional: Military 6
Professional: Business 4 (Logistics)
Street: Street Culture 4
Street: PMCs 4
Street: Seattle Underground 1
Interest: Cooking 1
Interest: Guns 1
Language: English N

Positive Qualities (20)
Ambidextrous (5 BP)
Erased (5 BP)
Martial Arts (Krav Maga x2: Take Aim and Ready Weapon as Free Actions) (10 BP)
Restricted Gear (SPARTAN Armor) (5 BP)
I'm not a big fan of Milspec Armor for a few reasons.
1) It is really fucking obvious and illegal. You can't walk around looking like an assault squad 24-7, you should expect to have to wear more subtle armor quite often.

2) It's not actually very good except for very particular characters - namely, people with low-range Body and Strength, like 2-4. This is because it doesn't stack with other shit.

3) It's expensive.

Negative Qualities (-35)
SINner (5 BP)
In Debt (30 BP)

Gear (280k) (50 BP)
SH Alphaware Wired Reflexes 2 (2.88E, 32k)
SH Alphaware Reaction Enhancers 2 (0.57E, 20k)
I'd give some serious thought to making that RG into RG: Move-by-wire, and getting non-alphaware MBW 2. That does the same thing as WR2/RE2 combined, for 3 essence, and you get free skillsofts. It costs 85k, but is quite good. And it gives you magic epilepsy powers because SR is retarded.
SH Attention Coprocessors 3 (0.36E, 4.5k)
R2 Cybereyes (0.3E, 0.75k + 6.5k)
- Ultrasound Sensor (2 Cap, 1k)
- Vision Enhancement 3 (3 Cap, 4.5k)
- Smartlink (3 Cap, 1k)
Cybereyes aren't worth it. You can't actually get Ultrasound in your cybereyes because it is not eyeware; it has Capacity so it can go in your cyberarm and shit. You can also get all this stuff on goggles instead. And it doesn't cut into your immortal soul. And is cheaper.
R2 Cyberears (0.3E, 0.75k + 9.5k)
- Audio Enhancement 3 (3 Cap, 4.5k)
- Balance Augmenter (4 Cap, 5k)
- Datajack (1 Cap, 0.5k)
Again, not worth it. You can't put a Datajack into cyberears. If you really really want a Balance Augmenter I guess you can have that but IMO it isn't worth the cost to your holistic well-being; just get earbuds.
[4.41E, 73.25k]

SH Enhanced Articulation (0.36E. 20k)
SH Muscle Augmentation 2 (0.48E, 7k)
SH Muscle Toner 2 (0.48E, 8k)
SH Synthacardium 3 (0.36E, 15k)
SH Orthoskin 1 (0.3E, 15k)
Orthoskin is way the fuck too expensive for what it does. If you want to be tougher, get a Cyber Lower Leg or two and slap Armor 2 in it. You can throw other shit in it too; particularly good things include Foot Anchors for more recoil compensation (and a totally legal lethal weapon, albeit one you have to default on because it is Exotic Melee Weapon).
SH Electroshock (0.3E, 12.5k)
Is this a Shock Hand? I'm not sure what "Electroshock" is.
[1.14E, 77.5k]

2x Machine Pistols: Ares Crusader (1.625k) x2
- External Smartgun (Top Mount) (0.4k)
- Personalized Grip (-1) (0.1k)
- Suppressor (0.3k)
- Concealable Holster (75)
- Skinlink (50)
As you are Ambidextrous, the cutoff for this being usable properly is 5 RC on the mainhand and 3 on the offhand (fire a Short Burst with your main as a simple, then a Long Burst with your offhand as a second simple). You don't have this, but I think you can get there easily enough.

Assault Rifle: AK-98 (1k +1.15k)
- External Smartgun (0.4k)
- Foregrip + Sling (-2) (60)
- Shock Pad (-1) (50)
- Gas Vent 3 (-3) (0.4k)
- Personalized Grip (-1) (0.1k)
- Skinlink (50)
The magic number for Recoil Compensation is 8, and I don't think you're there, but you should be able to make it.

Assault Rifle: Ares Alpha (1.7k + 4.35k)
- Foregrip + Sling (60)
- Shock Pad (50)
- Gas Vent 3 (0.4k)
- Personalized Grip (0.1k)
- High Velocity (3.4k)
- Firing Selection Change for grenade launcher: SS to SA (0.3k)
- Skinlink (50)
The Ares HVBR does this job a lot better, if WAR! is allowed.

Non-Airburst-Linked grenades are worthless. Get an Airburst Link.

I would think about the following weapons: Ingram Smartgun X (R sound suppressor, they are normally F), Ares Executive Protector (murder briefcase).

M79B1 LAW x4 (3k)
Rockets suck. Don't bother.

Ammo (18k)
50x HE Grenades (2.25k)
50x Frag Grenades (1.75k)
50x Thermal Smoke Grenades (1.75k)
50x Smoke Grenades (1.5k)
10x Neurostun Gas Grenades (0.8k)
10x Nausea Gas Grenades (0.45k)
10x Flashbang (0.3k)
Holy shit, this is way more grenades than most people will use in their entire life, and also a lot of shitty grenades. Frag and HE grenades are very questionable. Thermal Smoke is solid. Smoke is generally just less good Thermal Smoke. Flashbangs are solid.

Chemical grenades are good but those are subpar chemicals. The reason is that they are quite slow (immediate = end of combat turn, 1 combat turn = end of next combat turn, anything longer = after the fight is over anyways). Also, chemical grenades are 4+toxin avail, so you need 8 or less availability toxins to start. So no Neuro-stun anyways.

What you want is Splash Grenades of (nasty chemical)+DMSO. Generally speaking, your best bets are Narcoject+DMSO splash grenades - two of them will KO the majority of people at the end of the combat turn quite reliably. The other one you can get at chargen that's worth using is Pepper Punch gas grenades, which are oddly enough more effective than Tear Gas most of the time. The reason is that anyone who takes more boxes of damage after resistance (7-hits) than they have Willpower is nauseated, which removes them from the rest of the fight (3 turns of doing nothing), and it's very, very cheap. However, end of the next combat turn means you can really only use this in select circumstances.

The other ones worth using that you can't get now are Ringu (which will flatten anyone who isn't outright immune to contact vector and inhalation toxins at the end of the combat turn, but is really REALLY expensive and hard to get) and Gamma-scopalamine+DMSO splash grenades, which are faster than Pepper Punch and have power 8, but target Reaction rather than Willpower.

The other grenade type that's sometimes useful is White Phosphorus because of its ability to punch through armor.
1x Flashpak (0.2k)
2000x Regular Ammo (4k)
500x Stick and Shock (4k)
Holy shit that is a lot of ammo too. I suggest using Ex-explosive instead of regular ammo and redistributing your money. Armor Piercing Flechette and APDS ammo are both very good, but not available at chargen.

Lined Coat (0.7k + 1k)
- PPP Forearm Guards (0.2k)
- PPP Helmet (0.1k)
- PPP Leg and Arm Casings (0.35k)
- PPP Shin Guards (0.15k)
- PPP Vitals Protector (0.2k)
You aren't using Form-fitting Body Armor. Everyone should be wearing it unless they have something against their internal organs. You can easily hit your maximum encumbrance by stacking FFBA, PPP, and a regular armor item.

SPARTAN Armor (Heavy Military Armor) (20k + 30k)
- Military Helmet (10k)
- Gyromount (4 Cap, 4k)
- YNT SoftWeave Armor (2k)
- Hydraulic Jacks 5 (6 Cap, 7.5k)
- Chemical Seal (4 Cap, 5k)
- Nonconductivity 6 (3 Cap, 1.2k)
- Fire Resistance 3 (1 Cap, 0.3k)

2 Months Low Lifestyle (4k)
If you do decide to keep ogre, you forgot the discount.
R4 Fake SIN ("Samwell Haight", Bounty Hunter) (4k)
- R4 Concealed Carry License (0.4k)

Renraku Sensei (1k)
- Renraku Ichi OS (0.6k)
BTL Sim Module (RAS Override deactivated) (250)
Subvocal Mike (50)

Biomonitor (0.3k)
R6 Medkit (0.6k)
- 2 refills (0.1k)

Glue Sprayer (0.15k)
Gas Mask (0.2k)

Grapple Gun (0.5k)
Standard Rope (1km) (0.5k)

Lots of ninja flippiness, perception, guns, kung fu and stealth. I picked Automatics and Heavy Weapons because they seemed the most versatile. Since combat is his thing, I tried to make sure he could apply his combat power in as many arenas as possible. Among other things, I'm wondering how firing dual bursts from two machine pistols will work out.

Any feedback would be appreciated.
UmaroVI
Journeyman
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 2:05 am

Post by UmaroVI »

Sorry for the double post, but this keeps getting eaten when I try to edit.

Also think about:

Genetic Optimization: Reaction
Genetic Optimization: Intuition
Reakt geneware

Possibly using Genecrafted to get a genop.

If you do this, you probably want the Genops at character creation so you can spend 10 bp to get another stat point now, rather than 30 karma getting it later.
User avatar
CatharzGodfoot
King
Posts: 5668
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: North Carolina

Post by CatharzGodfoot »

Cyber eyes with datajacks feature prominently in at least one SR illustration.
The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
-Anatole France

Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.

-Josh Kablack

User avatar
Stahlseele
King
Posts: 5975
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:51 pm
Location: Hamburg, Germany

Post by Stahlseele »

EYES, yes, and it worked at least under SR3.
But NOT EARS.
Welcome, to IronHell.
Shrapnel wrote:
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.

Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
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