[3.5ish] Gestalt Characters game - anyone interested?

DrPraetor · Post by **DrPraetor** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:46 pm

Korgan0 - I'm at work, so: what the hell is a Whisper Gnome?

Races of Stone, right. Looks to be ECL +0, yeah, that's fine.

Kaelik - for chrissakes, "the ability to turn herself into any Small or Medium animal and back again once per day." In case there is some ambiguity here - at 6th level, you will be able to turn into an animal, turn back into a human to cast spells again, and then turn into an animal again on the same day.

I think you underestimate the value of Slots - but you notice that of the Incarnum users, only the screwed-over Soulborn is a C. So Totemists are good enough that you can't be a Wizard/Totemist, thus balance is preserved. It's not so much that I disagree about the relative merits of As and Bs, as that I don't much care. If you think Totemists and Incarnates are enough better than Monks or Paladins that they might motivate someone to be a Mystic instead of a Cleric, than perhaps I should've made them As - but that is the only purpose of the B/C distinction, it's not like I think a Druid/Barbarian would be particularly unbalanced, so much as I thought it'd be nice if someone chose to play a Shadowcaster or Shugenja.

Whatever · Post by **Whatever** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:11 pm

Whisper Gnome is also available here.

Winnah · Post by **Winnah** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:26 am

I'll probably take the Druidic Avenger ACF if that is OK. No animal friend or spontaneous casting for a version of Barbarian Rage and Fast Movement. It is on the SRD, in the Unearthed Arcana Book.

I don't know how well Druid//Totemist would work, as I do not own Magic of Blue, but I figure I'll still be able to use many Binder abilities while Wildshaped, assuming the game and character progresses to that point.

I'll also put together a more detailed equipment list. If you're using Wealth By Level, I should probably fork over some gold for a wand of Lesser Vigor or something.

DrPraetor · Post by **DrPraetor** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:23 am

Yes, initial equipment is wealth by level. Expect equipment value to grow faster than that after that point, however.

Druidic Avenger is... probably slightly better than the vanilla Druid, but not broken, so fine. C'mon Kaelik, let's hear you bitch some more!

The next week is really hectic for me, but the weekend of August 1st we might try and start the game. It seems like weekends will probably be easiest given we all have jobs and/or drinking habits.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:52 am

I'll take this one, Kaelik:
Druidic Avenger isn't better than vanilla druid. It doesn't get you anything better than basic rage (+4 str, +2 con), and you actually can't cast spells in a rage, by RAW, rather than the fiat decision that Natural Spell doesn't exist. It also get's rid of one of the druid's actual weapons, the animal companion, in exchange for slight buff. Certainly it's not a complete nerf, but it's not really better than the vanilla druid either.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:27 pm

I'm polishing up my character before asking what's going on with this.

Can anyone provide me with a compelling reason to not drop Lolth Touched (lose 4 str and con) and be a rogue instead of a soulknife, and just have four bucklers? As long as I'm just shooting eldritch blasts, my ac is four points higher... (I looked at changing soulknife to swashbuckler, but Swbs have no stealth skills. Ditto samurai with fewer skill points).

DrPraetor · Post by **DrPraetor** » Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:00 pm

Reason #1 - because if you can be a:
Lolth Touched Thri Kreen Sword Wraith
why settle for anything less??!!??!!

Reason #2 - The rule I specified was:
(Magic) ABC + (Non-Magic) C -> ECL +1
(Non-Magic) C + (Non-Magic) C -> ECL + 2

So I was not geared to allow ECL+ characters to be rogues under any circumstances. We could negotiate things around but since your character conception was originally soulknife, why fiddle with it?

Oh, you can trade the psychic strike for feats, FWIW.

DrPraetor · Post by **DrPraetor** » Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:14 pm

Of course, you'll need worthy opposition:

K'elake
Druid//Barbarian 5, Spellwarped Pseudonatural Gnoll
Chaotic Neutral

By DM fiat, K'elake wild-shapes into Aberrations, instead of natural animals.

Red_Rob · Post by **Red_Rob** » Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:26 pm

Prak_Anima wrote:Can anyone provide me with a compelling reason to not drop Lolth Touched (lose 4 str and con) and be a rogue instead of a soulknife, and just have four bucklers? As long as I'm just shooting eldritch blasts, my ac is four points higher... (I looked at changing soulknife to swashbuckler, but Swbs have no stealth skills. Ditto samurai with fewer skill points).

Isn't Shield a named bonus and therefore the AC bonus from the bucklers wouldn't stack?

Winnah · Post by **Winnah** » Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:38 pm

Flinds are better. They can also use special numchucks.

As for soulknife, I really can't offer much in defence of the class. They seemed feat dependant to me, but to be honest I never considered using them in conjunction with a multiattacking character before. Whether you have enough feats to do what you want to do with warlock and soulknife remains to be seen.

I suppose if PrC'ing was an option, that would be a means of gaining sneak attack or another source of bonus dice, like pyromancer. Of course, that works for a rogue//warlock just the same as a soulknife//warlock, or any other combination you might be considering.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:31 pm

DrPraetor wrote:Reason #1 - because if you can be a:
Lolth Touched Thri Kreen Sword Wraith
why settle for anything less??!!??!!

Reason #2 - The rule I specified was:
(Magic) ABC + (Non-Magic) C -> ECL +1
(Non-Magic) C + (Non-Magic) C -> ECL + 2

So I was not geared to allow ECL+ characters to be rogues under any circumstances. We could negotiate things around but since your character conception was originally soulknife, why fiddle with it?

Oh, you can trade the psychic strike for feats, FWIW.

Fair enough.

By DM fiat, K'elake wild-shapes into Aberrations, instead of natural animals.

There's a feat for that.

Red Rob wrote:Isn't Shield a named bonus and therefore the AC bonus from the bucklers wouldn't stack?

Ah, true, damn. Thank you.

Winnah wrote:I suppose if PrC'ing was an option, that would be a means of gaining sneak attack or another source of bonus dice, like pyromancer. Of course, that works for a rogue//warlock just the same as a soulknife//warlock, or any other combination you might be considering.

Ideally, I'd want to PrC into assassin at some point, but, eh.

Endovior · Post by **Endovior** » Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:20 pm

Technically, Eldritch Claws just give you two extra claw attacks. Technically, you already have marginal claw attacks on all your manipulatory limbs (as well as a marginal bite), this just gives you significantly better ones; so if you're totally unarmed, you're talking about 7 natural attacks. You could, of course, change one of those for a weapon, and attack normally, following up with six natural attacks (at -2 each, thanks to multiattack), so you're not giving up too much if you've got a mind sword in one hand.

That said, there's not actually any synergy there; so if you're changing over to an unarmed-focus, you want to look at Soulborn or Hexblade, depending on whether you want to focus on the long-term or the short-term; given that the whole 'character conception' thing was blown otu of the water once it was determined that you can't meaningfully add Eldritch Blast to soulknife stabbing. If you decide to go the Hexblade route, your path is fairly straightforward. If you decide to go the Soulborn route, remember that the best Soulmelds are on the Totemist list, which isn't a problem since you can take the Shape Soulmeld feat, and grab Sphinx Claws, and accordingly get Pounce at level 8, as soon as you unlock the 'Hands' chakra bind. And then you have Pounce, so you're pretty much set.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:43 pm

Nah, I'll stick with Soulknife, it's not a big deal, and the character is meant to be more of a sneak, so anything without hide/move silent is out.

DrPraetor · Post by **DrPraetor** » Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:29 pm

Yes, there will be prestige classes; originally, I was going to use "full caster" prestige classes only, and then you'd make a Gestalt with those and any non-prestige class that meets the ABC rank of your spell-casting class. So a Wu Jen could become an Archmage/Fighter but a Wizard would be stuck as an Archmage/Swashbuckler, or something.

I think instead I'll just write up some prestige classes, have them exist in the game world, and let people swap out whichever half of the gestalt they want. For one thing, most of the spellcaster prestige classes are boring.

Winnah · Post by **Winnah** » Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:21 pm

If you're going to make the effort to create or refluff prestige classes, don't bother on my account. I can't think of any good reason to deviate from normal class progression with my character.

Endovior · Post by **Endovior** » Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:29 am

Mostly finished; I just found the need to reevaluate my domain choices once I realized that:

1: Undeath and Planning are, except for the fact that they happen to grant feats useful for the DMM-Persist trick, terrible domains. Most spells in the Undeath Domain are already cleric spells anyways; and Planning notably grants Status, a 2nd-level Cleric spell, in the 4th-level domain slot!
2: The Illumian version of DMM is cheaper then bog-standard DMM; so if I have a positive Charisma modifer (which I was planning on doing anyway), then I can use a Reliquary Holy Symbol (1000 GP, +2 Turning Attempts) instead of the Extra Turning feat or the Undeath Domain.
3: I still have an open feat slot, so I could feasibly swap out Planning, as well.

I think I'll probably nab the Spell Domain, for it's exclusive access to the Anyspell spell, which is to say, the ability to prepare and cast Wizard spells from a spellbook/scroll. Even at 1/day, this is still totally awesome, but it doesn't come online until 3rd level spells do. Naturally, what you really want to do with this is get a pile of scrolls or a wand with Anyspell, and then proceed to essentially be a Wizard, but since it's a spell that is exclusive to an obscure domain, you pretty much just have to craft the item yourself.

I'm not entirely sure what to do with the other domain. Celerity is one of the other really awesome domains, both in terms of spells granted and domain power, but there's not actually a conceptual space that includes both 'master of magics' and 'fast and nimble', so that's out. Destiny isn't bad, and is explicitly one of Vecna's domains, so I might do that; otherwise, I'll probably do Magic, for general utility.

Notably: given access to the Destiny domain, if we were starting at a higher level, I'd swap out my Improved Trip for Diehard, given that Persistent Delayed Death + Diehard = Invincibility (at least, until people realize what's going on and start Dispel-spamming you). That said, I am NOT spending two feats to set up a cheese combo that comes in at a future level.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:50 am

you could lobby for the inclusion of a deity of magic and speed/time/something in the world...

Endovior · Post by **Endovior** » Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:35 am

Eh, I'm good. What's nice about Celerity at this level is that you get the +10 foot move bonus, and then can combine that with (Persistent) Expeditious Retreat for a move speed of 70, which is a fairly cool option. That said, I get the exact same effect by using Persist with Swift Expeditious Retreat, from the Duskblade list (one of the few good things about the Duskblade list, for the purposes of this build, is that it gets a bunch of the shitty swift action one round duration versions of real spells... which can quite conveniently be made non-shitty by persisting them). The nice thing about Celerity later on is that basically all the spells on the list are good spells not on the Cleric list; from Blur and Haste to Time Stop.

But I can live without it. I've already got a pretty reasonable background written up about a city of vampires hidden deep in the waste, and the Gravewhisper cabal of Vecna worshippers that lives there, using their divine magic to help make the food slaves go further.

DrPraetor · Post by **DrPraetor** » Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:11 pm

@Prestige Classes - this is not something we'd need to figure out now. Only point is, do not plan on taking a specific prestige class even out of the DMG material.

@Endovior - You can be a Cleric of a Philosophy, for example: the teaching of quickly murdering people with magic (Spells/Celerity)

.

However, I'm not letting you put anyspell into an item. Also, you will not be allowed to Planar Bind an Efreet to wish for infinite wishes. Although I seriously doubt the game would go on to that point anyway.

Dominicius · Post by **Dominicius** » Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:46 pm

So I've not really gotten a response on the stuff I asked even though it has been a while...

DrPraetor · Post by **DrPraetor** » Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:22 pm

Well, by "how is that different from a Psion?" I meant that you should possibly start with a Psion and move stuff around from there instead? But on reflection, Wilder's are so terrible that I'll let you have some of this stuff.
The reason for the delay is given at the very bottom.

Dominicius wrote: Volatile Mind is removed, instead at those levels you gain Expanded Knowledge as a bonus feat (Educated Wilder).

So this would make your power progression levels 3-10 be: 2/3/4/5/5/6/7/8 instead of 2/3/3/4/4/5/5/6/6. Yeah, that's fair.

Dominicius wrote: The Wilder lears 2nd level powers one level earlier (so the entire power progression is shifted to allow earlier access to powers). Similarly you get your 3rd power one level earlier.

Yes, this is also fair; since we are starting at 3rd level, you can take one of your two initial powers as a 2nd level ability.

Dominicius wrote: Psychic Enervation functions differently. Instead of getting dazed and losing power points, should psychic enervation strike you instead take a number of d8 damage equal to the Wild Surge boost.

Sorry, no. Wild Surge is actually a good power, you're going to have to use it as is.

Dominicius wrote: Surging euphoria is gained at level 2 and improves every 4 levels afterward.

So you're saying you'd like +1 to all your saves, huh? No, sorry.

Dominicius wrote: The wilder gets a psicrystal at level one.

Wouldn't you rather have a familiar, instead? Animals can be telepathic. I find psicrystals to be kind of insulting.
But, you can have one if you want.

Dominicius wrote: The class grants Painful Euphoria at level 10 which allows the wilder to gain the benefits of surging euphoria even if he was struck by psychic enervation.

By my reading this happens anyway.

Dominicius wrote: All stances are delayed by one level. That way I can actually take new stances.

Wuh? I'm looking at table 1-1 (The Crusader) in Bo9S. You want the "Stances Known" column shifted down by 1 (???). Oh, so you can start with a 2nd level stance! Yes, done (also you can start with a 2nd level Wilder power, see above.)

Dominicius wrote: Smite can be used per encounter instead of per day.

No, sorry.

Dominicius wrote: Zealous Surge can be used a number of times per day equal to half your cha mod rounded up (minimum 1).

Um... no.

Dominicius wrote: The ability that is a shittier version of Divine Grace becomes Divine Grace.

You would like to reroll (Cha Bonus/2) saves per day, and also add your Cha bonus to your Fort and Reflex saves, eh?

Let's consider all of this together. Even with the bonuses I'm giving you to the Wilder, the Wilder is still pretty poor.

And it is acceptable to me if the Crusader is better than the Paladin. So, okay, yes, you can have Divine Grace instead of +Cha to Will Saves only.

Dominicius wrote: Extra Material:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98474

I'm sold on the name. I haven't made a careful study of which stances and maneuver are how good in Bo9S, so I might as well let you use this list instead. I may change my mind on individual powers once I see them in game, though.

Dominicius wrote: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/75036941/Psion ... ed%29.docx

I haven't had time to read this yet.
Can you give me an executive summary of which changes you think are crucial? A lot of it isn't even different from the rules in the SRD.
The rule about pushing save DCs automatically to match the level of the slot - I generally use that for magic spells as well, although I don't expect this'll come up at 3rd level.

Dominicius · Post by **Dominicius** » Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:19 pm

>Sorry, no. Wild Surge is actually a good power, you're going to have to use it as is.

Except that no it isn't. You are better off taking levels in psion and taking levels in anarchic disciple rather than any level in the fucking wilder. At least cap the enervation chance to 15%. Painful Euphoria was pretty much only needed to counter the growing enervation chance.

>So you're saying you'd like +1 to all your saves, huh? No, sorry.

No that is not what I am saying and you implying that is insulting. Read the ability again.

>Wouldn't you rather have a familiar, instead?

No.

>No, sorry.

Didn't you say you were going to make all Smite per target and now you are revoking it altogether? WTF? Just make it per 5 minutes or something and have it apply to all smite classes.

>Can you give me an executive summary of which changes you think are crucial?

The summary is that it is a bunch of new and edited powers. The two powers I will pick is demorolize and vigor + a bunch of level 0 powers.

Winnah · Post by **Winnah** » Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:23 am

regarding Smite:

Killoren have a racial feature by which they choose an aspect of Nature to manifest each morning.

One of these aspects (Destroyer) grants a Smite attack. + Charisma to hit (melee or ranged not specified), +HD to damage. Effects undead, abberations, oozes, constructs, outsiders and humanoids. Once per hour, charisma mod per day.

If you're going to modify the smite ability, I'll need to know if and how the racial ability is changed.

Endovior · Post by **Endovior** » Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:11 am

Just about finished, and was just adding equipment... when I realized that I screwed up. Under a normal DMM build, yes, the Reliquary Holy Symbol could easily grant +2 turning attempts... in fact, it could easily grant +3. Unfortunately, it grants them for having each of: 5 ranks in Knowledge (Religion) [done], Improved Turning [what I was trying to avoid], and a Divine feat [like Divine Metamagic, which I've explicitly avoided taking by being an Illumian]. Given that the only other item in existence that grants +turning attempts is the nightstick, which is significantly outside my price range, I basically can't do what I was planning to do, and thus have to take either the Planning or Undeath domain, as I'd originally thought.

Well, that's not quite true. I could give up my Improved Trip combo, I suppose, but I don't want to do that. For that matter, I could always cast Eagle's Splendor prior to dropping a Persist; that would also grant +2 turning attempts. It would also set a 2nd-level spell slot on fire, though, and I don't have enough of those to want to do that, either. Accordingly, the least bad option is to set a domain slot on fire. I don't really want to do that, but it does, at least, grant some serious overkill in terms of turning attempts; with my 4 base attempts, +4 from improved turning, I can then go ahead and buy a Reliquary, and then have 10. Then I can persist Eagle's Splendor, probably at some silly time of the day so it carries over into the next day, before persisting something else (probably Extended Persistent, so that buff carries over, as well). And then the next day I can persist two things without trouble. Which chicanery is, in all seriousness, quite in keeping with the ideals of the Planning domain. Which, for that matter, was apparently errata'd or something to fix the inherent stupidity of having a 2nd-level cleric spell in a 4th-level domain slot, and switched with the more useful (but sadly, still Cleric-spell) Imbue With Spell Ability. So not as bad as previously thought, after all.

That said, since I have it done anyway, background:

Oathblood Malak
LE Moil-Wrought Illumian Cleric 3//Duskblade 3
Servant of Vecna

-Attributes-
Str 14
Dex 7
Con 11
Int 15
Wis 17
Cha 12

-Saves-
Fort +3 (3 Base)
Ref -1 (1 Base -2 Dex)
Will +6 (3 Base +3 Wis)
[+2 Save vs Shadow; -4 Save vs Symbols of Higher CL]

-Defenses-
HP 3d8
AC 12 (10 Base -2 Dex +4 Armor)
DR 1/- [10 HP/Day Absorbed]
Init -8 (-2 Dex, -6 Flaw)

-Attacks-
Melee +5 (3 Base +2 Str)
Range -1 (3 Base -2 Dex -2 Flaw)
War Scythe +6 (2d4+3 Damage, x3 Crit) [+1 Damage when Channelling]

-Skills-
Concentration +10 (6R +2 Sigil +2 Domain) [+4 Casting Defensively]
Decipher Script +5 (1R +2 Int +2 Sigil)
Knowledge (Arcana) +9 (5R +2 Int +2 Sigil)
Knowledge (Religion) +9 (5R +2 Int +2 Sigil) [+3 Identifying Undead]
Sense Motive +6 (1R +3 Wis +2 Sigil)
Spellcraft +14 (6R +2 Int +2 Sigil +2 Domain +2 Synergy)

-Languages-
Common
Illumian
Draconic
Infernal

-Feats-
Extend Spell {Planning Domain}
Extra Turning {1st Level}
Combat Expertise {Flaw}
Improved Trip {Flaw}
Combat Casting {Duskblade Class}
Persistent Spell {3rd Level}

-Flaws-
Shaky
Unreactive

-Special Abilities-
Luminous Sigils
Glyphic Resonance
Power Sigil: Naen
Power Sigil: Hoon
Illumian Word: Naenhoon
Final Utterance
+2 to Save vs Shadow
Moil Wrought (Background)
Aura of Evil (Moderate)
Rebuke Undead (10/Day)
Undead Intuition (+3)
Planning Domain
Spell Domain
Arcane Attunement (5/Day Sp: Dancing Lights, Detect Magic, Flare, Ghost Sound, Read Magic)
Armored Mage (Light)
Arcane Channeling

-Spells-
(Cleric)
4 0th
3 1st (+1D)
2 2nd (+1D)
[All Spells Known; +Spell, Planning]

(Duskblade)
5 0th
5 1st
[Spells Known]
0th: Acid Splash, Disrupt Undead, Ray of Frost, Touch of Fatigue
1st: Blade of Blood, Obscuring Mist, Shocking Grasp, Swift Expeditious Retreat

-Equipment-
188 GP
Reliquary Holy Symbol (1000 GP)
Masterwork Chain Shirt (250 GP)
-With Iron Ward Diamond (500 GP)
Masterwork War Scythe (262 GP)
-With Least Crystal of Arcane Steel (500 GP)

Malak hails from the city of Maladon. Maladon itself shelters within the Gap of Raegesh, a barren rocky valley in the middle of a large desert; the city is built into the walls of the valley, and is mostly either underground, protected from direct sunlight by the geography of the area, or sheltered by artificial constructions, slowly built up over time by repeated casting of Wall of Stone. The city is ruled by vampires, who have set up innumerable quiet barrows and tombs across the desert to allow easy travel to the undead, despite the dangers of the sun in the day. The city's primary import is slaves, and wealth from the slave trade has made the nomadic tribes that populate the desert rich and powerful. Maladon's key priority is to ensure that it does not grow beyond it's means to support itself, and it has some fairly draconian rules to ensure this. This notably includes citizenship laws (more vampires are not welcome, unless they have magic which more then offsets their feeding; the living are very welcome, but they may be eaten for even minor offences, unless they possess that same sort of magic; non-feeding sorts of undead are generally accepted if they don't cause trouble), on when Vampires are allowed to be created (essentially only at the whim of the ruling council, which is generally stingy about the privilege, and tends to require quests and such), and on the disposal of created spawn (this problem was almost entirely solved by the creation of a convenient portal to Gehenna, following which all spawn, including illegally or unintentionally created vampires are immediately sent through, sold as slaves to the Yugoloth to fight in the Blood War).

Maladon has been around for centuries now, and though vampires can come from any race, and despite the fact that humans are the majority on this Prime, races that already have a measure of magical power are disproportionately represented in Maladon's ruling council. It is for this exact reason that an Illumian enclave exists within the city; the Oathblood cabal. A Gravewhisper-type cabal, the Oathblood line has always preferred vampirism over the various sorts of undead immortality. Illumian vampires from the Oathblood helped found Maladon, and though they are neither the only political force in the city nor the ruling faction, they are still a notable power within the city's politics. It is for more then just practical reasons that the laws of Maladon favour those with magic that boosts Constitution and heals ability drain; that type of magic is Divine Magic, which the Oathblood cabal has in abundance, given that their divine patron is Vecna. Indeed, the most common occupation within the cabal is 'Priest of Vecna', though of course, being Illumians, it's most commonly 'Priest of Vecna, and something else'.

Malak himself is a fairly typical product of his regimented household. Though he showed some aptitude for arcane magic, he was required to focus his efforts on the study of Vecna's rituals, with strict martial training coming as a close second, and any studies of arcane magic restricted to his 'free time'. The fact that he managed to attain reasonable proficiency in all three fields is a mark of his talent and discipline... but is not really all that out of place for an Illumian of any sort, much less a member of the Oathblood cabal, in which laziness can be punished by death. The fact that he went beyond 'reasonable proficiency' to the point of developing a unique fighting style mixing both types of magic with martial skill does demonstrate something more then the norm... but there are plenty of others, similarly exceptional, with other impressive achievements.

At this time, Malak is nearing 40... still very much in his prime, as an Illumian, but he has yet to leave the city itself. He's mated for his cabal, and has mastered the second circle of divine magic... and thus, having both replaced himself biologically, as well as attained the level of magical power necessary to magically produce sustenance for other vampires, he's done enough for the cabal that he can't be killed without a good reason, and can potentially be considered for vampirism in the future. Accordingly, he could easily coast out the next few decades, gradually increasing his magical skill, and attain vampirism in due time, as he nears his old age... but he's too ambitious for that. He knows that, generally speaking, one must master the third circle of divine magic in order to endure the transition to vampirism intact, and also knows that the efficacy of study and practice greatly diminish as one moves up toward the higher circles of magic. Since the secrets of magic seem to open themselves more readily to those who travel the world, defeating enemies, he knows that the only real way to attain vampirism before he grows old and sickly is to go on a quest of his own. And, quite fortunately, there is in fact a quest of that sort available; since a major goal of Maladon as a whole is to obtain more magics that are useful in keeping vampires fed. Accordingly, Malak volunteered for this task... and since his combat skills are notably more impressive then the average stay-at-home cleric, he was granted permission to do so.

Of course, for all his training, Malak is notably weak in certain areas. Though strong and clever, he is also slow and clumsy, which can be a serious liability in any sort of combat. Furthermore, his hybrid combat style, though impressive in it's own way, is exclusively focused on melee combat; so much so that Malak has minimal ranged capacity, even with ranged magic. Additionally, he's not ever been in real combat before... he's used to practice and training, or taking direct orders in wargames; he's not used to actually being unable to take the time to consider the optimal response to a situation before committing himself to action, and being that slow to react in real combat may well be the death of him.

DrPraetor · Post by **DrPraetor** » Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:41 am

@Endovior - I did say you could have the Moil Wrought background, right? I said something as a joke which Kaelik took seriously and I'm not sure if I ever gave you an actual okay on being a Moil Wrought aspiring vampire/lich/whatever. b/c it appears I forgot to say it - other backgrounds may be okay but require specific approval.
So put "Moil Wrought Illumian" in your character by line so I remember you have it. Assuming you still want it.
Other than that - so your domains are Planning/Spell, correct? By fiat, those are perfectly acceptable domains for a straight-up vanilla priest of Vecna.

@Winnah and Dominicus - I really hate abilities like Smite; they are limited uses and just move modifiers around. I'd considered (I didn't actually say I'd do it!) making all Smite abilities be something like usable X/day against each individual opponent but that's still irritating because it just requires more accounting for me, the DM, on who you have stabbed and how many times.
So - all Smite abilities retain their current uses/day, but they are now actually good:

Dungeon Master wrote: when you Smite someone, if you hit and do damage, they must make a fortitude save with DC = 10 + (class level / 2) + (Cha Bonus) + (Smite Bonus). If they fail they are stunned for one round.

That should settle the issue for all the smite abilities that everyone everywhere gets.

@Dominicus: The whole point of this entire endeavor was that I wanted to do a Gestalt game without rewriting rules or moving class features around! So for a regular game, I'd be very receptive to house rules that helped balance the classes but the whole idea with this set up is that I didn't care to deal with it.

Also, I don't give a shit if you're insulted, quite honestly. I'm running a game and I feel no need to put up, nor do I have time for, you bitching if your feelings are hurt. If you care about me insulting you, you just shouldn't play. Sincerely: I volunteered so I don't expect anyone to listen to my bitching, but you can grow up or go home.

One change I am flat unwilling to make: I'm not going to give you a bunch of fiddly numerical bonuses on an accelerated schedule. I agree that Wilder's suck even in comparison to the mediocre Psion; I explicitly said that I wasn't using even the DMG default prestige classes, let alone... whatever an anarchic disciple is. So that's not relevant.

That out of the way - if you are willing to keep it to yourself if you feel insulted: as part of your character conception, you want to be an "educated wilder", whatever that means. That's okay, but I want to minimize my workload; I'm not going to revise any class features but I can move them around. How about this - although you are a "Wilder" (in terms of background, you aren't trained in psionics but you are educated to some extent), you use the game mechanics for the Psion class, except:

Dungeon Master wrote:
[*] you get the following class features (on the Wilder schedule, exactly as written for the wilder): Wild Surge, Psychic Enervation, Surging Euphoria.
[*] Your powers are Charisma-driven instead of Intelligence-driven.
[*] All of your bonus feats must be Expanded Knowledge.

I completely misread the Surging Euphoria text; l failed to notice the crucial word "not". But I'm really not interested in changing it.

To digress a bit - the Wilder is extra boring because for some reason they don't get a specialized area of psionics. Why would people who use psionics intuitively be less specialized than people who were formally trained?!?! This has never made any sense to me. I suppose that since Wilders don't actually get any psionic powers to use, it doesn't matter.

Back on topic - you can gestalt that with a variant crusader with the stances delayed 1 level and with Grace instead of Indomitable Soul. You can write this class as Crusader//Wilder. Does that work for you?

As for powers from the house rules to-which-you-linked, I will approve on a case-by-case basis. Pick 5 1st level powers and 2 2nd level powers and...
But one thing I do not want is to have people bitching at me because they think I am less than polite in assessing their desired class-feature swaps.