On Bards (and Skylord's Tears mechanic spillover)

[Fuzzy_logic]

So! Over at my campaign setting thread, I was looking for a "favored classes" for kobolds. (Scare quotes because I've eliminated that mechanic)

I came to the conclusion that I really like Bards. They don't have much other place in the setting, they're sorcerer-like without being sorcerers, and they're wicked cool.

Sadly, this is a tome game and I don't really like the tome bard. Not for this purpose anyway. It's too caster-ish. I'd really like a Bard that plays more like the PHB one, but better.

I was thinking, why not start with a chassis upgrade? I know tacking full BAB on doesn't help much in core, but in a Tome game, full BAB would be worth something, wouldn't it? Throw in a d8 hit die and I think you might be on your way to a playable character.

I still feel like it needs a little more -- what would it take to make a bard less wizardy and more heroic?

[Voss]

Make inspiration type things more prevalent and less action intensive.

Inspire <blah> can be a swift action that lasts for CHA modifier + level/4. Thats pretty much a combat

Heroic Call: As an immediate action, spend a bardic music use to grant any one ally a re-roll on any d20 roll (or maybe just save) they just failed.

Steal the Marshal's ability to grant move actions.

Shift some spells around. Nick crap like divine favor, GMW and magic vestment

Basically, the gist is to get the bard out of the back line singing and jerking off, and up in the front doing shit.

[Jacob_Orlove]

You want to make Bardic Music into something people care about, rather than something people don't even bother to remember.

Instead of giving everyone +1 to hit and damage (woo), have it give seriously worthwhile boosts, like extra attacks or "treat your saving throw as the Bard's perform check" or whatever. Honestly, these abilities should be so good that two barbarians (or whatever) + bard = three barbarians. The bard can chip in with some decent attacks, too, but he needs to really boost the effectiveness of the rest of the party.

Honestly, a good place to dumpster dive is the Tome of Battle. Steal some of the more worthwhile maneuver effects, make them bardic music benefits.

[Catharz]

What flavor do you want for a bard? Give a few examples of what bards of various levels would do in various (combat and noncombat) situations.

[Fuzzy_logic]

That's a good question. There are to answers-- first, what the bard class does for kobolds and second, what it should look like as a PC class.
I picked it for the kobold boos because
it

-- makes a mob of weaklings a more plausible threat
-- provides them as a race with some magic, but not too much (explains why the gnomes usually win)
-- is an annoying and flashy bad guy who can easily escape, yet has difficulty killing the PCs.

Plus, it gives the race a distinct identity from goblins. Also, I wanted singing to be in the campaign somewhere,and I liked dragons as patrons of art -- that's what the wealthy do. Plus, the idea of kobolds and outwardly ugly but with glorious voices was cute.

So in a way it was deliberately choen for being a bad class. Still a tome game is a fast-paced, high-powered place, and I thought that the class could use a powerup to die a little less easily and be slightly scarier. Still, it could easily be an NPC class.

Lvl 1 -- sing a song that buffs his minions; hide behind them and shoot arrows. after his minions die, run around a corner and hide.

Lvl 4 -- Be mirror imaged or invisible or otherwise protected. Hide behind minions strumming a lute to buff. Throw down disabling enchantments to extend his followers' lifespans. When they die, run away really fast.

Lvl 7 -- Fly around under magical protections. Use illusions to set up an ambush. Have a "muscle" cohort and put buffs on him. Send in minions inspired by his song. When threatened, stab you with a poison dagger or teleport away.

Lvl 10 -- ride around on a flying mount, inspiring his horde of mind-controlled muscle. shoot magic arrows and use area debuffs. Optionally begin battles by jumping out and assassinating someone. Be surrounded by protective magic.

As for what Bard should look like as a PC class, that's part two, and very different.

[Fuzzy_logic]

Hero

"You my strike me down, but I will always be remembered! Also, my friend stole your doomsday weapon. Push the button, fred!"

The hero is best summed up by one word: daring. He'll try anything once, even saving the world. He's a proactive multitalented problem solver. Need a peace treaty negotiated? He can do that. Troops lead into battle? Check. Someone to sneak into the Fortress of Pain? No problem. A translator for your book of lroe? Any time. Lor Sauron stabbed in the face? He'll give it his best shot.

The Hero is very similar to the fighter in that he projects an overwhelming aura of *competence* -- no matter what the situation, he's cool and in control. The chief difference flavor-wise is that where the fighter pulls off success with training and strategy, the hero succeeds with impulse and style. Mechanically, he sacrifices the ability to go toe-to-toe with boss monsters for enhance dleadership abilities and access to magic.

Playing a Hero:

The hero has a partial answer for every contingency. He should never feel useless and always be encouraged to get his hands dirty. He has limited spell ability, enough to have the abilities that make you relevant (see invisible, flight, etc.) He has a little healing, enough skills and spells to solve noncombat problems, and decent combat skills too.

This class is designed to emulate the well-rounded protagonists of many fantasy series. However, it must be remembered that D&D has no protagonist. Thus, while the CHARACTER may love the spotlight, it is important that the player not detract attention from other players. Thus it is important to constantly reinforce the fact that he needs the other players.

Ideally, his versatility lets him jump in over his head, requiring his part to bail him out -- with the help of the bonuses he provides.

Alignment: Good heroes live to serve, while evil heroes are just narcissists. Lawful heroes usually represent the public face of an organization, while chaotic heroes show up as charismatic rogues.

Races: Every humanoid race has heroes, but they are most common among races that value travel, teamwork, or showmanship. Humans produce more heroes than any other race, with Halflings and elves close behind. Also, planetouched are extremely likely to be heroes, particularly descendants of fiends, with their bad-boy mystique.

Starting Gold: 6d6x10 gp (210 gold)

Starting Age: As Bard.

Hit Die: d8
Class Skills: All skills are class skills for the Hero
Skills/Level: 6 + Intelligence Bonus
BAB: Good (1/1), Saves: Fort: Poor ; Reflex: Good; Will: Good

All of the following are Class Features of the Hero class:
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Heroes are proficient with light armor and all simple and martial weapons.

The Iconic Hero art would be a strikingly handsome young Tiefling (Aasimar, mechanically) in leather armor with a duling cape and a longsword facing off against an ogre. He's grinning and flourishing the blade, but his eyes are wide with fear and he's crouched as though to bolt. His inspire abilities are based on Perform (Oratory)

Now, for class features.

The spellcasting should stay much like the Bard's -- enough to provide utility and some "cool tricks"; not good enough to make you want to stand there and cast round after round.

Besides that, he should fight well enough to make charging into melee a reasonable thing to do, but poorly enough that he will occasionally get his ass handed to him.

His other class features should (a) buff allies and (b) reward getting his hands dirty.

For instance, make inspire courage much more powerful, but it only works if he actually enters melee himself.

-----------------------

LVL 1
Is an extra guy with a longsword
Stealthy/alert -- a decent scout or bodyguard
can detect magic, make light, etc.
can translate languages, track down rumors,
etc.

LVL 4
He can tumble to flanking position and deal reaonable damage; inspire allies
Sneak along with the rogue to watch his back
Magic provides mobility, some crowd control, and buffs. Can *knock* loks, *charm* guards, etc.

Lvl 7
He can turn himself and the rogue invisible and watch the rogue's back while the rogue does the actual assasination
He can take the fight to enemy casters, thanks to fly, see invisible, and dispell magic
He can protect his pary from danger by countering spells, inspiring piles fo temporary hit points, or physically guarding the cleric.
He can build or command an airship, train a griffon, activate anything and maybe make himself a magic sword

If possible, it would be cool to have alternate features for "sidekicks." Instead charging in first and giving the party a bonus, the sidekick would fire arrows while giving his chosen friend a bigger bonus. He'd also focus more on healing and crowd-control and less on buffs and social skills.

[Surgo]

I think music magic is as cool as the next guy. I also think that beguilers do basically what bards should do, except they don't do it musically. Why not just merge these two concepts? Replace the verbal (or whatever) components of beguiler spells with playing the violin or something. Then give them a little benefit to actually playing the violin based off of perform checks or something because this makes them slightly less powerful because they can't do it in a grapple.

Of course the Hero works too, but I don't get the sense of 'music magic' from it.

[CalibronXXX]

Take a look at the Warchanter prestige class in on of the early complete books. It has some worthwhile combat buff songs.

[Fuzzy_logic]

edited my earlier post.

Yeah, Warchanter does get some cool features. Not one of the songs is worth the number of charater levels you sink in a nonspellcasting class to get it, though the level 10 one is a lot of fun if you summon if you party with a summoner.