Tome Series - Character Creation Thread!

[Username17]

When we say "sprites are unplayable" we're specifically talking about the Grig and the Sylph. Those guys have glass jaws and laser beams so big that there's no return.

Other sprites aren't so bad. Pixies, shorn of their occassional "Irresistable Dance" spell-like, are pretty much flying Halflings. Nixies are water breathing halflings. Both can be put into a D&D party with relatively little fuss.

The Grig, the Sylph, the Nymph, and a bunch of the other Fey are given attacks that are horrendously effective for their level in exchange for having hit points that would be weak for creatures a couple of levels lower than that. The Nymph and Sylph cast spells as 7th level characters and have the hit dice of 3rd level characters and have a CR that is split the difference. That's bullshit. If the Sprite gets the drop on you, it hits like a 7th level spellcaster with good stats. If you get the drop on it, it stacks up like a 3rd level Rogue with a poor Con. That doesn't add up at all.

Those are bad monsters. They're bad for the game as enemies, and they are even worse for he game as PCs. Which is sad, they cast spells and have boobies.

-Username17

[AlphaNerd]

Fair enough. I just thought a grig monk would make an interesting character. I imagine other tiny cute flying things with SR 17+level are unplayable (read: pseudodragon).

When it comes to more playable monsters, say the satyr, are we supposed to still use the elite array? If we do, a satyr gets:

* -2 to two of dex, wis, chr, -2 to either con or int, and +2 to str.

If we use the non-elite array, we get +2 to one of dex, wis, chr, and +2 to the rest. If we use the 3x11, 3x10, then we get what WotC gets, +2 to everything but str.

Or is this just a case of give it +0 to all, or just fake it, and give them a +2 dex and be done with it. I am of course, referring to a pipeless satyr.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/satyr.htm

[User3]

Kind of like The Matthew's character.

"The true prison is the mind, and there you shall remain, imprisoned by your own will. Ahaha! Ahahahahaha! BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!"

Code: Select all

Aasimar[br]True Fiend 4/Conduit of the Lower Planes 3[br]1:TF 1 |------|+1|2/2/2|Immortality, fiendish traits (Demodand)[br]2:TF 2  \-----|+2|3/3/3|Telepathy[br]3:TF 2/CotLP 1|+2|3/3/5|Sphere (Violation), Petitioner Immunities (Archeron)[br]4:TF 3/CotLP 1|+3|3/3/5|DR/Stone[br]5:TF 4/CotLP 1|+4|4/4/6|Sphere (Sleep)[br]6:TF 4/CotLP 2|+5|4/4/7|[br]7:TF 4/CotLP 3|+6|5/5/7|Sphere (Dominion?)

She worms her way into your head. She knows your deepest secrets. Behind her there is a trail of broken lives. The epitome of lower-planar royalty, she relies on other to do her dirty work as she twists the minds of those around her.

Any suggestions? I'm not sure which of Dominion, Fear, or advanced access to Violation would be better.

[Iaimeki]

1159558924[/unixtime]]Fair enough. I just thought a grig monk would make an interesting character. I imagine other tiny cute flying things with SR 17+level are unplayable (read: pseudodragon).

When it comes to more playable monsters, say the satyr, are we supposed to still use the elite array? If we do, a satyr gets:

* -2 to two of dex, wis, chr, -2 to either con or int, and +2 to str.

If we use the non-elite array, we get +2 to one of dex, wis, chr, and +2 to the rest. If we use the 3x11, 3x10, then we get what WotC gets, +2 to everything but str.

Or is this just a case of give it +0 to all, or just fake it, and give them a +2 dex and be done with it. I am of course, referring to a pipeless satyr.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/satyr.htm

Satyrs' stats are very different from those of most D&D monsters, since they don't adhere to the, "A monster is something with bigger numbers than a PC," rule. Thus, if you apply the RoW rules to them, you get something with underpowered ability mods and a bunch of other abilities that may or may not make up for them: +4 natural armor, DR 5/cold iron, +4 to a bunch of skills, 40' speed, Alertness and maybe other feats, pipes, and a weird number of HD. It's arguably balanced, but as a player race it would make more sense to just cancel out the ability mods and lower the HD, and then decrease the natural armor and skill bonuses to compensate.

I think a pseudodragon would be playable, though not at the WotC's LA. The big difference is that the pseudodragon's awesomeness is mostly defense- and sensory-oriented, meaning that it's not a glass cannon. It has respectable hp and AC for its CR as a PC (2). None of its abilities are particularly broken: the poison is good, but it's risky for a Tiny creature to go into melee to deliver it, blindsense is very useful but not dominating, and telepathy is more a flavor than a power ability. The abilities that most concern me are the excellent flight (but the pseudodragon doesn't have hands, which means its ability to use ranged attack cheese is limited, especially since it has racial HD so will make a sucky caster) and the spell resistance (but superior defenses like that aren't that strong as a PC, and SR is weak against good caster tactics anyways). I don't think it converts well via the RoW rules. You might be able to play it right out of the book as a ECL 2 character with 2 racial HD, though the lack of hands definitely limits its choices in terms of classes.

[Catharz]

Bumping an old thread...

[Edited to add flavor. Five points to whoever gets the reference.]

"Cheradenine Zakalwe" (tiefling)~

Tiefling
Fighter 9/Legendary Commander 1
1:Ftr 1 |------| 1|2/2/2|LF: Combat School
2:Ftr 1 |------| 2|3/3/3|FF: Danger Sense
3:Ftr 1 |------| 3|3/3/3|LF: Two-weapon Fighting
4:Ftr 1 |------| 4|4/4/4|FF: Mage Slayer OR Elusive Target?
5:Ftr 1 |------| 5|4/4/4|
6:Ftr 1 |------| 6|5/5/5|LF: Combat Looting, FF: Command
7:Ftr 1 |------| 7|5/5/5|
8:Ftr 1 |------| 8|6/6/6|FF: Sniper
9:Ftr 9 \-----| 9|6/6/6|LF: Blitz
10:Ftr 9/LC 1 \|10|6/6/6|A World of Opportunity

Background ("Veteran of The War"): He once answered to the name "Elethiomel," and captained a chaos ship in the blood war. After an unfortunate encounter with Abyssal Memory Fog [FC1], he left the lower planes, took the name "Cheradenine Zakalwe," and saught employment as an adventurer.

Base ability scores (25)~
S:14+2 D:10 C:14+2 I:18+4 W:8-1 C:11.

Skills (1-9: 10/level, 10: 12. Total: 132)~
Bluff: 12.
Craft (furniture): 1.
Craft (Traps): 13.
Disable Device: 10.
Intimidate: 12.
Knowledge (engineering): 13.
Knowledge (history): 9.
Listen: 10.
Move Silently: 12.
Search: 10.
Sense motive: 12.
Spot: 12.
Use magic device: 6.

Magic equipment (49k gp)~

Mechanus elite armor~
Start with Masterwork Mechanus gear armor. Add oiled chains to each arm, functioning as two Masterwork adamantine kusarigama or a single kusarigama and a Masterwork chain shield (Vine shield based on engineering). The kusarigama are effectively in 'locked gauntlets,' as they must be ripped out to disarm them. This also means they cannot be dropped, which can make tripping more hazardous.
Mechanus elite armor has the following stats~
AC+12, MDB 0, ACP 7, ASP 8.
Kusarigama: damage 1d6 slashing, critical 19-20, reach 10'.
With shield: AC+13.
Knowledge (enginering) rank benefits
4: Strength +2, shield acts as a tripping weapon.
8: Not staggered or unconcious at < 1 HP, opponents missing in melee provoke Trip or Grapple AoO.
13: DR 12/adamantine, trip & grapple +2.
18: Increase size, Edge vs. opponents with dexterity < Knowledge (engineering).

At 10th level, armor MDB is 1 and ASP is 7.

[Catharz]

So, I was going to make a Deep One (AKA Kuo-toan) character because that monk PrC is awesome, but I wanted some advice on converting them to a PC race.

CR 2->ECL 3.
Medium monstrous humanoid
HD: 2d8->3d6.
Base attack: +2 (good)-> +2 (medium).
Reflex: poor (+1). Fortitude: poor (+1). Will: good (+3).
Skills: 6/level.
Str: 13 -14-> -2, Dex: 10 -10-> 0, Con: 13 -13-> 0.
Int: 13 -12-> 0, Wis: 14 -15-> -2, Cha: 8 -8-> 0.
Total mods: Str-2, Wis-2.

Does this look right? Obviously it is completely arbitrary whether the first penalty is to strength, constitution, or intelligence. I figured a MM mook would put a higher score in strength, though.

My gut feeling is that even with Keen Vision they're shitty, but I guess that's why they're dying out...



Anyway, for an actual build I was thinking of something like Monk 1/Samurai 2/Moniter 9, to pick up an ancestral pincer staff.

[Judging__Eagle]

I've got my barb that I'm writing up for this thread. It's really a good one.

[OrionAnderson]

Here's a Fiend I just kind of threw togehter. It's nowhere near optimized, since I don't know many of the splatbook spells in the spheres and I didn't want too many spheres due to complexity, but it *is* incredibly nasty.

Aasimar Conduit of Baator 10/Sorcerer2

Str 8 Dex 14 (16 w/item) Con 14 (16 w/item Int 12 Wis 14 Cha 20 (24 w/item)

HP 91 AC 19 (23 w/ mage armor) Fort 13 Ref 10 Will 15

Character Feats: Heighten Spell-like ability, Blind-Fight, Mage Slayer, Great Fortitude, Danger Sense

Bonus Feats: Wings of Evil, Harmless Form, Greater Teleport

Skills: Concentration 15/18 Intimidate 15/22 Spot 7/14 Listen 7/14 Disguise1/18

Spheres: Terror, Dominion, Cold (expert access) DCs (with heigten spell) 23

7/day Obscuring Mist
6/day Web
5/day Wall of Fire
4/day Solid Fog
3/day Black Tentacles
2/day Programmed Illusion

7/day Cause Fear
6/day Scare
5/day Halt Undead
4/day Fear
3/day Phantasmal Killer
2/day Symbol of Fear

At Will:
Cone of Cold
Creeping Cold
Ice Storm
Wall of Ice
Freezing Sphere
Control Weather

Spells: CL 8, DC 17+level
1 Magic Missile, Mage Armor, Enlarge Person, Unseen Servant
2 Glitterdust, False Life, See Invisible
3 Haste, Dispel magic
4 Greater Invisibility

Gear: Cloak of Charisma+4, Cloak of Resistance +4, gloves of Dex+2, Amulet of Health+2, Ring of Protection +3, Vest of Natural Armor+3, glasses of +5 spot, crown of +5 listen 7k gold for scrolls and stuff

Putting it together:

Senses: Blindsense 60, darkvision 60, Spot +9, Listen +14, Spot +14

Defenses: Immune to Fire, Immune to Cold, SR 17, Uncanny Dodge.

NOTES:

This guy is very versatile. He can walk around all day in human form, but can fly or teleport at will, making him very hard to kill.

He's very hard to get the drop on, what with blindsense, decent spot and listen, and see invisiblity. Spells mostly won't hurt him: between SR and high saves, targeted spells won't work, and he's immune to the two most common energy types. Conjuring walls/tentacles/whatever won't work either, since he teleports at will.

He can throw down decent-DC Will save or suck spells effectively, with a mediocre elemental attack to fall back on. Between his defenses and those two pools of spells, he can eventually solo many monsters.

Within a party, he provides some buff spells, crowd control, and can locate and deal with annoying foes like invisible or ethereal threats.

His only weakness that I can see is a low AC, which I'm too lazy to fix.

[Endovior]

How in hell is an Aasimar a Conduit of the Lower Planes?

Races: The Conduit of the Lower Planes is only available to creatures with a plane of origin in the Lower Planes. Creatures from the prime material plane whose ancestors were from a Lower Plane may take this class.

Aasimar, BY DEFINITION, have a decidedly Upper Planar ancestry. Therefore, you CANNOT have an Aasimar Conduit of the Lower Planes.

[OrionAnderson]

Re-read races of war. This guy is descended from an Erinyes.

[Judging__Eagle]

1170738089[/unixtime]]Re-read races of war. This guy is descended from an Erinyes.

That was hilarious, nice char Orion.

Also, Endovior; you could twist the Conduit around and make it a Conduit of the Upper Planes with completely different flavour and the mechanics would be exactly the same.

Just grab some Cleric Domains and throw in some new spells from the Spell Comp to beef out their SLAs.

I should get Upper Conduit for our group. To heal me.

Or just buy the parties clerics, druids and rogues wands of Close Wounds to heal me.

5 ten-shot wands would be good.

[Judging__Eagle]

Abd-Al-Salil (Aka. Servant of the Blade)
Human Barbarian 6
Medium Humanoid - HD 6d12 + 18 (65 HP)
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
Speed: 60 ft. (75 ft when Raging)
Initiative: +1

Armour Class: 23 (1 Dex, 1 Amulet of Natural Armour, 1 Ring of Protection, 8 +1 Adamantine Breastplate, 2 Two Weapon Fighting)
Armour Class (Raging): 21 (As above, -2 Rage)
Damage Reduction: 6/Adamantine (6)
Damage Reduction(Raging): 11/Adamantine (6), - (5)


Attacks(Raging): Melee +1 Flesh-seeking Rage-Fueled Warchain +16/+16/+14/+14 (Main 1/Off 1/Main 2/Off 2) Warchain Melee (Main: 4d6 + 9; Off: 1d6 + 9 |Plus Daze Fort DC 16|17-20/x2| +6 damage When Blitzing)
or
Attacks(Raging): Melee +1 Flesh-seeking Rage-Fueled Warchain (w/ 10 foot Reach) and Armour Spikes/Razors +16/+16/+14/+14 (Main 1/Off 1/Main 2/Off 2) Warchain Melee (10 foot Reach) (Main: 4d6 + 9) Armour Spikes/Razors (Off: 1d6 + 9) |Plus Daze Fort DC 16|17-20/x2| +6 damage When Blitzing, provokes and AoO)
Attacks(Ranged):Ranged +7 Javeling (1d6+3 20/x2)

Special Attack:
Trip +16 to hit +11 To Trip (+4 Weapon, +4 Imp Trip, +3 Str, +0 Size)
Grapple +11 to hit +13 on Grapple checks (+3 str, +6 Bab, +4 Imp Grapple, +0 Size)

Special Actions:Rage (Rage Dice +3d6, Combat Movement +15’; DR 5/-) Battle Hardened, Sidestep Hazards; Blitz, Whirlwind
Special Qualities: Fast Healing 5, DR 11/ Adamantine (6), - (5)
Saves: Fort +9 Reflex +4 Will +3
Saves(raging): Fort +11 Reflex +11 Will +11

Abilities: S 16 D 12 C 16 I 14 W 10 Ch 8
Skills:
Feats:Combat School, Two Weapon Fighting, Blitz, Whirlwind
Character "Options":Dark Stalker, Improved Trip, Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Endurance, Diehard
Notable Items: Belt of Health +2; Amulet of Natural Armour +1, Ring of Protection +1, Ring of Animal Friendship, +1 Flesh-Seeking Rage-Fueled Adamantine Warchain, Cloak of Resistance +2; Warboots of Expeditious Assault




Breakdown of abilities:

Abilities (28 Point Buy)
Str 15 (base) +1 (Level)= 16 (+3)
Dex 12 (Base)= 12 (+1)
Con 14 (Base) +2 (Item) = 16 (+3)
Int 14 (Base) = 14
Wis 10 (Base) = 10
Cha 8 (Base) = 8

Init +1
BAB +6, Grap +9
Fort +9 (5 base +3 con +1 resistance)
Ref +4 (2 base +1 dex +1 resistance)
Will +3 (2 base +0 wis +1 resistance)

Levels/Feats:

1. 
   
2. Barbarian 1 [Two Weapon Fighting; Combat School (Jaws of Destruction)]
   
3. Barbarian 2
   
4. Barbarian 3 [Blitz]
   
5. Barbarian 4
   
6. Barbarian 5
   
7. Barbarian 6 [Great Fortitude]
   

AC: 21 or 23 (T 12, FF 22 (sheild) or 19 (TWF))
10
+ 1 [Dex]
+ 1 Amulet of Natural Armour
+ 1 Ring of Protection
+ 7 [+1 Spiked & Razored Adamantine Breastplate]
+/- 4 [+1 Spiked & Razored Adamantine Sheild]
or
+/- 2 [TWF sheild Bonus, when using 2 weapons & not FF]

My actual breakdown of combat bonuses is as follows.

Attack: +16/+16/+14/+14 War Chain and/or Armour Spikes/Razors

+6 Bab
+3 Str
+1 Magic Weapon
+2 Combat School
+/-2 Rage (Class Rage)
+/-2 Rage (Weapon Granted while raging)
-/+ 1-6 (Power attack)


Damage:
Main Hand (Two Attacks at: +16/+14): 4d6 + 9 (+/- 6 Damage to all attacks, but provoke an AoO)

1d6 War Chain
+ 3d6 Rage Dice
+ 3 Str
+ 2 Combat School
+/- 2 Rage (Class Rage)
+/- 2 Rage (Weapon Granted)
(+/-6) Blitz
+/- 2-12 (Power Attack)

Off Hand (Two Attacks at: +16/+14): 1d6 + 9 (+/- 6 Damage to all attacks, but provoke an AoO)

1d6 War Chain or 1d6 Armour Spikes/Razors
+ 1 Str
+ 2 Combat School
+/- 2 Rage (Class Rage)
+/- 2 Rage (Weapon Granted)
(+/-6) Blitz
+/- 2-12 (Power Attack)

Tactics, in order of imporance:

1. Move to engage enemy (Via Whirlwind), hit an enemy, start raging. Move among enemies, use TWF + Whirlwind to get double attacks on each target moved past

3. Make your way to the squishy charactes near the back or middle of the group. (Remember he has 14 Int, so he knows tactics)

4. Either make a full TWF attack on a vunerable target (casters first, always) or keep whirlwinding among the group, with 75 feet of movement, you should be able to move around anything and most people won't be able to keep up with you.

5. If anything can keep up with you, kill it first, use a full attack action on the target.

6. If the enemies can't really hurt you with their melee attacks, be willing to blitz to finish the job faster. You can't mix and match Blitz with non Blitz attacks, so be careful. You can choose to use your reach with your wachain on dangerous threats to mitigate AoOs on you while blitzing (you provoke an AoO, but if they don't have a reach weapon, it's useless for them).

Picking up Juggernaut in later levels is also handy, you can enter enemy squares to make whirlwind even more effective.

[OrionAnderson]

I wanted to see if a True Fiend was good without any effort invested. I randomly distributed this guy's resources to try to do it all, and I think, for low level play, it may have worked.

Aasimar True Demodand 4

Str 14 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 14 Wis 10 Cha 14
HP 30 AC 16 (Chain Shirt) Fort 6 Ref 6 Will 4

+1silver/+1 Iron dire flail: +9/9 1d8+5

Skills : Hide, Move Silently, Spot, Listen, Bluff, Diplomacy, UMD, Knowledge (Planes), Sense Motive, Search

Feats: Two-Weapon Fighting, Combat School (Thresher: flail, dire flail, sling)

Spheres: Fire
Fireball 4d6 DC 13
Scorching Ray +6 4d6

Defenses: Immune to Cold, Fire, Sonic. Freedom of Movement. DR 4/stone.

Random powers: telepathy

Gear: Mithril chain shirt, +1 silver/+1iron dire flail.

NOTES: Despite the general suckyness of evocation, fireball at level one is really good. If I expected to go to high levels, I'd take a different sphere, but at level four scorching ray saves me from needing to carry a ranged weapon and fireball is nice area damage.

His melee attack is much worse than an optimized barbarian, but still easily good enough to plow through appropriately CRed monsters, and between reasonable HP and AC, DR, and energy immunities, he should be pretty durable in combat.

Finally, he acts as a sort of substitute rogue, able to sneak around, detect stealthy enemies, lead social situations, and activate whatever wands and scrolls fall to the party.

[josephbt]

Add Craft - Taxidermy 1 and The Chairmaker is complete.

Now, gimme my XP.

[Catharz]

1170853817[/unixtime]]Add Craft - Taxidermy 1 and The Chairmaker is complete.

Now, gimme my XP.

Wow, I'm glad at least someone here has good taste in books

Five points: .....
Sorry, couldn't come up with anything better.

Oh, and apparently Craft is only one skill, so it's just Craft 13 ranks. No furniture or taxidermy.

[Judging__Eagle]

1170872481[/unixtime]]

1170853817[/unixtime]]Add Craft - Taxidermy 1 and The Chairmaker is complete.

Now, gimme my XP.

Wow, I'm glad at least someone here has good taste in books

Five points: .....
Sorry, couldn't come up with anything better.

Oh, and apparently Craft is only one skill, so it's just Craft 13 ranks. No furniture or taxidermy.

True, but it can also be used to Craft Baskets, as well as Traps or Furniture.

[josephbt]

So what about Bora Horza Gobuchul? Changeling Male Assassin 8? Or maybe a somber Jester?

[Catharz]

1170922181[/unixtime]]So what about Bora Horza Gobuchul? Changeling Male Assassin 8? Or maybe a somber Jester?

We'll we've got to get him a couple of poisoned natural attacks. That actually points towards Fiendish Brute.

[Brobdingnagian]

I tried a Nightwalker with the RoW method, and I'm pretty sure it didn't work...

I guess my question here would be, how would you make a generally really powerful monster (such as a Nightwalker or Horned Devil or whatever) work as a PC? I mean, from what I could tell, my Nightwalker worked for its level, but after that, it couldn't keep up.

[Iaimeki]

I think the reason a nightwalker doesn't keep up with other PCs at that level is that you're past the point where the game is playable. The CR tables become useless at high levels: only monsters with their own casting can keep up with action-novaing, contingency-buffed, instant-death-throwing casters.

[Brobdingnagian]

And I really wanted to be a Nightwalker...

Ah well, whatever. That's a really good point. I guess the real question is, then, at what CR do monsters become unplayable? Is it the same point the game itself becomes unplayable, or at a lower end?

[Cielingcat]

I could write you an "Avatar of Shadow" class or something.

[Judging__Eagle]

Don't, he'll want to use it.

And his party won't have a Batman to sovle their problems with magic.

[Brobdingnagian]

What, a fifteen level base class that effectively turns a person into a Nightshade or something?

[Cielingcat]

No, a 20th level base class that turns you into an avatar of the Plane of Shadow/Plane of Negative Energy. Which just so happens to resemble a Nightshade.

It would have Beguiler spellcasting from a shadow themed list and some cool powers, and the Shadow X line might be enough to solve problems with magic.