Magical + Masterwork?!

Wiseman · Post by **Wiseman** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:13 pm

Okay, this has been bugging me for a while. It lists in the SRD that all magical weapons are also masterwork. Master work means a + 1 to hit. If so, then is a +1 sword actually +2 to hit? I want to say no, but...

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:15 pm

Masterwork bonuses are enhancement bonuses, as are magic bonuses. Like bonuses do not stack.

ishy · Post by **ishy** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:22 pm

Is there any good reason to keep masterwork in the game?

Red_Rob · Post by **Red_Rob** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:25 pm

Masterwork provides another tier of advancement for very low level characters to obtain before magical.

In our games using Scaling weapons with abilities we give Masterwork +1 to hit and damage. It doesn't seem to break things.

Wrathzog · Post by **Wrathzog** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:25 pm

Not really.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:28 pm

So the advantage of a +1 sword over a regular ol' masterwork sword is a) it's magic (overcomes some damage resistance), and b) +1 damage.

Don't ask about adamantine masterwork weapons.

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:29 pm

I think it's a better argument to talk about if "+1" is really worthy of the title "magical"

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:32 pm

Aren't adamantine weapons automatically masterwork?

We've had the argument before regarding the point of plain numerical bonuses in magic weapons, especially the +1 ones.

Sigil · Post by **Sigil** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:44 pm

I think it's worth getting rid of. I've encountered many confused looks when explaining to new players that a weapon has to be masterwork before it can be magical. It adds complexity to the game for almost no benefit. If it did something else, like giving a +2 bonus to confirming critical hits or something, maybe.

Wiseman · Post by **Wiseman** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:03 pm

virgil wrote:Masterwork bonuses are enhancement bonuses, as are magic bonuses. Like bonuses do not stack.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

echoVanguard · Post by **echoVanguard** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:04 pm

It's kind of a weird restriction when a lot of the unique magic items from older editions were clearly made out of non-masterwork items (such as magic knives made out of subpar materials). It also blocks off the possibility of powerful enchantments on crappy/fragile base items, providing a potential quandary about whether or not the item is really worth using - a character might take a trusty, reliable nonmagical sword over a rusty enchanted blade in some settings, but in classic D&D, that's a sucker's bet unless you're a Forsaker or something.

echo

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:51 am

echoVanguard wrote:It's kind of a weird restriction when a lot of the unique magic items from older editions were clearly made out of non-masterwork items (such as magic knives made out of subpar materials). It also blocks off the possibility of powerful enchantments on crappy/fragile base items, providing a potential quandary about whether or not the item is really worth using - a character might take a trusty, reliable nonmagical sword over a rusty enchanted blade in some settings, but in classic D&D, that's a sucker's bet unless you're a Forsaker or something.

echo

Yeah, it's cool if 'inferior materials' are actually more magical

Like, in a late medieval world, bronze is the medium for conducting magic.

the Rogue-like/Pokemon/Dating Sim game Azure Dreams did this thing where gold was a crappy mundane sword, but since it couldn't be degraded by traps like steel could, it was a better material for enchanting up in power.