[5E] Is Mearls planning to snow Hasbro and the fanbase?

[OgreBattle]

You know what really grinds my gears?

Myconids are typed as a fucking plant. Fungi are not plants. Botanists only study them because they got sick of arguing with people about taxonomy and the differences between cellulose and chitin.

Why are grass pokemon called grass pokemon and not plant pokemon

but then mushrooms are included in the category of grass pokemon.

[Istred]

it isnt in the MM so it isnt a part of 2nd edition, it would then have to be a part of XX setting FOR use with 2nd edition. do you people REALLY not understand the 4th edition motto of "everything is core" if false?

Ah, but it is in the MM - though in this case this stands for "Monster mythology" which is opened with such a statement.

the deities here can be thought of as archetypal powers. This means that they exist as deities in any of the established AD&D game worlds or can be introduced into any other game world AD&D campaigns are set.

[shadzar]

it isnt in the MM so it isnt a part of 2nd edition, it would then have to be a part of XX setting FOR use with 2nd edition. do you people REALLY not understand the 4th edition motto of "everything is core" if false?

Ah, but it is in the MM - though in this case this stands for "Monster mythology" which is opened with such a statement.

the deities here can be thought of as archetypal powers. This means that they exist as deities in any of the established AD&D game worlds or can be introduced into any other game world AD&D campaigns are set.

but splat isnt 2nd edition it is splat. I am sure Wyatt was brought in to appease bible-thumpers and Jack Chick so they could use devils and demons as words in D&D, and he should be just that PR, since he knows nothing about D&D.

this is a problem held by many. how often do you hear that something like bloodlines are 2nd edition. no, they are Birthright or Red Steel, I forget which because they are setting specific.. settings too are splat. when one speaks of an edition they should speak only of the books required which are for AD&D: PHB, DMG, MM. MC pulled things from everywhere and added them, then later MM was made pulling someones pet monsters into it thus why some things from Planescape appear. that is a problem.

again it falls to the EVERYTHING IS CORE mentality of 4th which strives to allow people to play with things in ALL games because some player bought the book. WotC's effort to support players against DMs that are obviously the employee of WotC unbeknownst to them. that shit doesnt fly. 3.x with its 4000 DMGs also doesn't fly. if you cant get the game in as few books as possible, then you failed, the rest is add-ons like that fluff for myconids, and Uncle Trapspringer in CPHH&G.

unless Greenwood is running a Realms game, or Gygax is running a Greyhawk game, or Arneson is running a Blackmoor game; those "deities" exist ONLY if the DM says they do. you can't pull all the splats together and the game even work when half the shit contradicts itself in them.

The most common type of priest is the cleric. The cleric may be an adherent of any religion (though if the DM designs a specific mythos, the cleric's abilities and spells may be changed--see following).

Copyright 1999 TSR Inc.

TSR doesn't choose the game world the DM runs, they cannot force Realms, Athas, Krynn, Oerth; nor can they force any other oddities. This goes for WotC as well in terms of deities of monsters, cosmology, etc.

TSR didn't say YOU MUST USE THIS COSMOLOGY AND PLANET AND DEITIES, Wotc sure as hell wants to at every turn. one of the quickest ways to lose someones respect is to order them to see fun your way. WotC deserves no respect for these recent decisions as they are insulting. they need to go back and learn not to push crap off onto the gamers.


it is really sad that LW despised gamers and felt they were less than humans and had no rights, yet her company made a game that allowed players to think and plat for themselves, yet WotC that likes gamers sure as hell doesn't respect then, and seems respects them LESS than LW ever did.

Grazzt, no idea who the fuck that is, not this Pillsbury god you and Wyatt speak of; and i don't give a shit either.

The priest is a believer and advocate of a god from a particular mythos.

The cleric may be an adherent of any religion

Copyright 1999 TSR Inc.

they might as well go back to welcoming Jack Chick and Pat Roberts when they add detailed religions to the core of the game and such cause they might as well be doing what those people claim they were always doing in D&D, and trying to create a religion of their own.

again people wanting extra fluff beyond basic concepts of what type of creature this monster is, should buy the fluff book for the specific setting they wish to view it in. i dont see Greek and Roman god names in mythological creatures descriptions. no mention in medusa monster entry, no mention of King Minos in Minotaur entry....this is how it should be. something to the core that lets one use the creature, tells how the race lives and that is it. the DM is there to tell how it came to be, IF that plays any part of the game itself, or IF the DM wishes to go into it. Otherwise it is there because its a fucking Minotaur.

i can count ZERO games in which the deity field on a character sheet was filled in by anyone, let alone clerics. only ay a Red Wizard of They or some other NPC did it matter, but for PCs it boiled down to "your god this", or "your deity that". they didn't need a name cause they werent that damn important, the PCs are the important ones to the game.

maybe now someone here will understand why D&D doesnt need any created religions in its base game, and that all the splat books do not get counted when claiming "x editions says this" because PF would then be called 3rd edition since it uses a license granted by WotC to officially make D&D compatible products. and PF is NOT 3rd edition. nor is any other 3PP STL or OGL product, they, like splats and settings in AD&D are ACCESSORIES. your floormats for your truck that came from Kmart are NOT an F-350, just an accessory. Monster Mythology DMGR blue splatbook is NOT 2nd edition, just an accessory. The Dragon is NOT AD&D, just an accessory.

[infected slut princess]

So to see how retarded Mearls has been lately, I listened to part of that Against the Slave Lords playtest podcast while I was doing some stuff in the yard.

Oh my god D&D Next is fucking shitty. It's hard to believe how bad it is.

The biggest problem in their little game arose when some ghouls buttfucked the entire party with their paralyzing touches.

You see, in 5e your saving throws don't change except by your attributes. And those don't change too much. There is no "base save" for your class or anything. So a DC 12 save against being paralyzed by a ghoul touch is just as hard for most 1st level characters as a 10th level character.

What a joke.

Which made me think, "Didn't they have some stupid HP threshold thing earlier?" Well, apparently that's gone -- which is hilarious because I was pretty sure Mearls thought that was truly a moment of brilliance for himself.

Characters get more damage and more hit points while they level up. But they are still shitty. They can't survive save-or-dies from low-level opposition because their saves blow chunks. At the other end of the scale, hard-core dudes like Asmodeus are laughably bad at imposing their effects -- you barely need to fear his Dominate power anymore than you fear a ghoul's paralyze power. TOTAL MATH FAIL. FUCK YOU MEARLS. This entire game will suck so hard black holes will be put out of business.

[shadzar]

that is old news. the second part of that adventure was also posted on youtube. the ghouls show design failure, but you can see MEarls isnt cut out to be a DM in the first place in both parts combined. which means he isn't cut out to be a designer cause he is too much of a flake. now he isnt flailing arms off his meds like Noonan was in his playtest video, and at least ALL the players are D&D players for this one, but the game jsut looks like shit and is not recognizable as D&D except maybe the name being there saying it is for an outsider who has NEVER played D&D before and never seen ANY other online video of people actually playing. which would be odd to see this playtest as the ONLY tme ANYONE has ever seen D&D played.

[shadzar]

. http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx ... l/20130722 .

So, if D&D is an RPG, what do the rules need to do to encourage you to roleplay your character?

nothing, that is what YOU as a player bring to the table. if you brought none, then you either expect none, or should get none. oddly enough this is what people want in some cases. those wanting mechanics for roleplaying, should probably look somewhere else, or they might need social mechanics for life as they do not know how to properly interact with others.

can't even bother reading more after...

Like a lot of things relating to D&D rules design, the answer lies somewhere between providing no encouragement and demanding players to play act personalities that are distinct from their own.

no dumbfuck! you dont get to demand anything in rules deisng. all you get to do is decide possible outcomes of use of the rules and incorporate the best you can. you aren't the god of DMs sitting in Renton and everyone else must fucking follow you, people can use the books for ANYTHING they want, including wiping their ass with pages from 4th edition because that is about as much value as it has, and it probably has glossy paper so isnt even good for that!

you as a rules design person for a game like D&D, STAY THE FUCK OUT OF PEOPLES HOME GAMES. your job ends when the book is on the shelf to be purchased. designers and players alike need to learn this! there are some out their like tussock that worship Gygax, and some that worship Mentzer, and even some fool enough to worship you Mearls. unlike D&D having worship[ers does not grant you special powers or godhood in the real world. step out of your fantasy and join the real world. you are NOBODY, and mean NOTHING. you are a name on a book. you are not a celebrity or idol, you are a HASBRO toadie. you only have power in the insane crap you put into publications, and none more. LEARN YOUR FUCKING PLACE.

[Winnah]

Way to miss the fucking point.

If you play a Paladin, then your character has a code of conduct. There is an imposed set of behaviours for your character, by design. Thank you AD&D, for coming into peoples homes and telling players how they should play certain characters.

What the article is actually about, is shilling the new Inspiration points mechanic.

You know when you eloquently describe something your character is attempting, and the DM gives you a bullshit +2 to a roll for the cool description? That is apparently the basis for inspiration points.

Only inspiration points are now something you can bank by acting 'in-character', kind of like building up your willpower by adhering to your Nature in WW games.

Similar to Nature, If your character has full inspiration, there is no actual incentive to act in-character. It is only after your nature inspiration has been depleted and you are attempting to harvest bonuses, that there is any incentive to play your character a certain way.

This does not encourage roleplaying. It just encourages pythonesque funny walks and other stupid quirks in order to keep the stream of die bonus modifiers flowing.

[Prak]

I'm three paragraphs in, can someone tell me when he says something meaningful?

[Winnah]

The 4 big paragraphs, starting paragraph 9. Everything else is dross.

[phlapjackage]

The 4 big paragraphs, starting paragraph 9. Everything else is dross.

Better.

Gods this is sad, like watching an animal sinking into quicksand. It's all flailing about, trying to save itself, but it's only sinking lower and lower for it's troubles.

[Prak]

It's pretty obvious that D&D began its life as a roleplaying game. It has grown to include toys, novels, comics, video games, and board games. At the core of D&D, though, rests an RPG.

Umm... no.

If the rules give us tools to use in a campaign, our character's personalities tell us why and how to use those tools. Without that layer, D&D is no longer an RPG but simply a fantasy world simulator or a skirmish battle game.

...you mean like...


...fuck, I just can't seem to think of anything...

I think it's great that they're reinventing the Aspect system of Fate and the back-story charts of Runequest 2/Life Path charts of Cyberpunk 2020...
Wait, no, not great. The other thing. Kind of dumb. I mean, I know they can't just say "go look at Fate/Runequest/Cyberpunk." Except that they kind of could....

[shadzar]

Way to miss the fucking point.

what fucking point? the article said nothing up until then, except that it was going to do something stupid yet again. those unsocial idiots that insist on playing a social game need to be babysat with some sort of mechanics.

to you paladin analogy.. guess what. D&D is a class-archetype based game. if you dont want to play a game with the archetypes presented.. then fnd another fucking game? what are people so insistent on trying to change it to something else, rather than taking their lazy fucking ass to play something else instead?

if you dont want to play a game where one man is king and the players are all his servants to maintain the lands, then don't fucking play a game in Camelot.

fuckmooks that keep thinking D&D is something else, need to have better education, cause their schooling is surly fucking lacking.

4th edition tried to throw out D&D and call something else D&D...it didn't fucking work.
si the article is saying that roleplaying grants some temp bonus like those DC mods from other WotC attempts at D&D? isnt playing your reward for roleplaying? in some cases you get some bonus XP in order to.. oh nevermind, XP doesn't mean anything anymore since it is handwaived by DMs cause WotC thinks tracking XP isnt fun and everyone levels at the same rate anyway.

like i sid in the other thread, D&D is long since dead, and who knows what the fuck is wearing its skin now, but it is surely made for people who never understood D&D.

as for alignments. see the thread i made a while back explaining where Gary fucked that up and how to fix it. the majority of people still dont get that the 9 alignment system will NEVER work, but a paladin CAN work as being Lawful, Good because Lawful good can NEVER exist.

but you choose a paladin then you get a paladin warts and all. if you didnt want to play a paladin, then you should have fucking chose something else. D&D isnt your momma's teets to suckle on and made only for you and the rest of the neighborhood kids and adults that she enjoys feeding.

YOU can do whatever in YOUR game, but that doesn't make it right for THE game of D&D which is classes created on archetypes. you want a TTMMO with its roles, 4th edition is the failed attempt proving that such cannot work. or you could go to pathfinder for its anime MMO based design.

D&D is no longer an RPG but simply a fantasy world simulator

is that what the article says? does Mearls not understand that that is what an RPG (not Rocket Propelled Grenade) is, a fantasy world simulator? that is exactly the fuck what an RPG is be it jRPG, cRPG, TTRPG, etc.

does he fucking think D&D is some sort of board game or something? has this dumbfuck taken his medication before writing this article?

D&D offers combat rules to make things fair, for a fantasy world simulator. thus why ship-ship, aerial combat, and mass combat doesn't work in it, because it simulates a small group going through the simulated world.

WTF!

oh i love the next line after that part, it is comedy gold!

It doesn't take much to make that work

then why can WotC never make it work after 16 years of owning D&D?

The secret we must not let them know is that they don't need to buy books from us to play.

roleplaying is possible in OD&D, just not thespianism at Gary's table.

there is no rules for roleplaying nor mechanics for it in most MMOs, and yet people have been doing it even on PvP servers on Everquest, because to play in the fantasy world simulation, you only need combat interaction rules as everything is IS roleplaying!

they need to send Mearls back to Arkham, because DDN is going to fail quicker than 4th ever did!

[infected slut princess]

Mearls' Inspiration system is dumb.

Mechanically, we're looking at a fairly simply system that we're calling inspiration. When you have your character do something that reflects your character's personality, goals, or beliefs, the DM can reward you with inspiration. The key lies in describing your action in an interesting way, acting out your character's dialogue, or otherwise helping to bring the game to life by adding some panache to your play.

...

Just as a DM chooses when to reward inspiration, the DM also chooses why to award inspiration.

...

Like many things in the DM's hands, inspiration is a tool that requires more finesse and art rather than science to properly apply. A good DM uses inspiration to encourage play that makes the game better for everyone at the table.

I hate stuff like this. Players shouldn't have the DM decide when they do something that "reflects [their] character's personality, goals, or beliefs."

DM: "Wow Johnny, your actions really reflect your character's personality! Here, have some inspiration points!"
Player 1: "Thanks!"
Players 2: "What about my actions? I believe they reflect my character's personality as well!"
DM: "Eh, I disagree."

[hogarth]

This does not encourage roleplaying. It just encourages pythonesque funny walks and other stupid quirks in order to keep the stream of die bonus modifiers flowing.

You forgot about blatant GM favouritism!

I've played in a number of games where the GM gives out "hero points" whenever a PC does something "cool". In practice I just try to ignore them, which is made simpler by the fact that they're usually useless anyways (e.g. "spend 137 hero points to get a +1 bonus to a single Profession check!").

[TiaC]

Mearls' Inspiration system is dumb.

Mechanically, we're looking at a fairly simply system that we're calling inspiration. When you have your character do something that reflects your character's personality, goals, or beliefs, the DM can reward you with inspiration. The key lies in describing your action in an interesting way, acting out your character's dialogue, or otherwise helping to bring the game to life by adding some panache to your play.

...

Just as a DM chooses when to reward inspiration, the DM also chooses why to award inspiration.

...

Like many things in the DM's hands, inspiration is a tool that requires more finesse and art rather than science to properly apply. A good DM uses inspiration to encourage play that makes the game better for everyone at the table.

I hate stuff like this. Players shouldn't have the DM decide when they do something that "reflects [their] character's personality, goals, or beliefs."

DM: "Wow Johnny, your actions really reflect your character's personality! Here, have some inspiration points!"
Player 1: "Thanks!"
Players 2: "What about my actions? I believe they reflect my character's personality as well!"
DM: "Eh, I disagree."

It also makes Character development a bad thing, as a developing character will act differently to how they did in the past.

[shadzar]

It also makes Character development a bad thing, as a developing character will act differently to how they did in the past.

Pavlovian response. the thing rewarded will imprint on the player and their actions will continue to adhere to that which was rewarded. move to another game and it may have a negative impact to do those things rewarded in the previous game.

this is NOT how to encourage roleplaying as there is no ONE correct way and individual groups will find different things good. some might like Monty Python style comedy bits, and others don't!

i think its called the anchoring effect or something in the mind when ones perception becomes hardwired for them, and changing that perspective is rarely easy.

[shadzar]

quick question for those that know more about 4th.... this whole inspiration roleplaying mechanic thing... isn't it prtty much the same as a "milestone" or whatever in 4th? you do something and get a minor bonus or reroll of a dice after the thing, for a short period, be it encounter or day or whatever?

was trying to look all over WotC forums for the old 4th threads, and THINK the term was milestone that is similar, but not sure so if not, then whatever it is called, how does this inspiration compare to that, othern than some + to combat for RP?

[Corsair114]

quick question for those that know more about 4th.... this whole inspiration roleplaying mechanic thing... isn't it prtty much the same as a "milestone" or whatever in 4th? you do something and get a minor bonus or reroll of a dice after the thing, for a short period, be it encounter or day or whatever?

was trying to look all over WotC forums for the old 4th threads, and THINK the term was milestone that is similar, but not sure so if not, then whatever it is called, how does this inspiration compare to that, othern than some + to combat for RP?

Sounds more like you're getting at Action Points, Do so many encounters, get a special point you can spend once per encounter (usually) to take another action on your turn. Aside from riders that come from Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies, I don't really recall any other bonuses that might fit that description.

[shadzar]

yeah that nonsense i guess. like the only thing WotC can do is create something that gives a + to combat or some dice roll. i dont get RP to get more chances to min/max.. RP gives you things more valuable like... the location of the dungeon that has the treasure to is the whole fucking adventure!

[ishy]

Think there was something to the lines of : you can only use x amount of magic item dailies a day, no matter how many magic items you get. And you can use more if you reach a milestone or smt?

[Lago PARANOIA]

Essentials retconned it away. Post-Essentials, Magical Item dailies are supposed to be internal to the object; there's no limit on how many of them you can use in a period of time, as long as they come from a different item.

This extremely necessary change was rendered moot by the fact that the fucknuts who were responsible for retconning the rest of the magical item system gave up after changing the magical item rarity on a few items, then went 'fuck it' and declared everything that they didn't go over already uncommon. Meaning that players can't buy or make them but the DM is allowed to place it in treasure parcels.

Since this was like 90% of items and 4E D&D characters are much more dependent on magical items than 2E D&D characters, people (especially on the Character Optimization boards) elected to ignore the Essentials system and stick with the older, marginally less dysfunctional system.

Ugh, 4E D&D was a fucking trainwreck. I'm not kidding when I say that it is literally the worst magical item acquisition scheme I've ever seen, even worse than d20 Modern/Urban Arcana. The Magical Item Acquisition rules in UA will either permanently fuck over your character or lead to a 1st-session cheese loop of power just by looking at them funny, but at least they probably won't cause paranoid fistfights.

[shadzar]

next DDN playtest article is Dragon Eye View

. http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx ... e/20130724 .

I don't know about you, but the number one game that I've been asked to tote along to all my friends' houses for gaming has been Lords of Waterdeep. It's so popular that I packed it into my luggage to take on a trip to Texas! If you haven't played it, you should check it out. It is great fun, and it'll help the rest of this article make sense.

well i think this comment found below the article sums it up nicely...

Xynthoros
Why is this in DnD Next Playtest list? It has nothing to do with the playtest...

add this article with the emphasis given on non-TTRPG use of D&D, and i would say Mearls has already snowed the players, because they aren't working on a TTRPG for the sake of a TTRPG, but they want the D&D logo to stick on everything else, and who cares if the TTRPG works or not, since they will have video games, board games, hasbro lego, etc.

[shadzar]

. http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx ... l/20130729 .

1. For characters who are truly experts in some areas, that bonus can go as high as +12...
2. The optional skill system allows you to reach +12...
3. We're revising the DC table to match our expected bonuses...

doesn't #3 mean that the skill system wouldn't be optimal? how is it going to show the DC for those NOT using the optional skill system?

he is about to fuck up the math because he will forget ALL the modular design and only be able to design the math for ONE way to fit into ONE book so that all MODES of play are "CORE". that or they will have to design the math 3 times, once for basic, another for standard, and another for advanced... which means advanced will probably assume ALL modules are in use.

something is gong to get fucked.

[Istred]

something is gong to get fucked.

Isn't this the motto of DnD Next?

[ishy]

We want to focus on growing hit points, rather than attack or saving throw bonuses (or DCs), as the way we reflect growing character power.

That said, we've seen a few issues from our playtest feedback and from our own games. The big one focuses on saving throws and skill DCs.

* Saving throws against effects that take you out of the fight, like a ghoul's paralysis, mess up monster scaling. A ghoul is equally deadly to a 3rd- or 17th-level fighter. If either one blows a saving throw, the fighter is out of the battle.

This just shows how important playtesting is for a game. Nobody could have foreseen this without playtesting.

---

Side note:

We want to focus on growing hit points, rather than attack or saving throw bonuses (or DCs), as the way we reflect growing character power.

vs

We're pushing the DCs used by player character casters down a bit and factoring effective spell level into the equation. Thus, a high-level wizard has lower saving throw DCs for weaker spells and higher ones for stronger ones.

How come TTRPG designers can never admit they fucked up?