Mask_De_H wrote:Daiba, that doesn't work because you will have Denners violently argue about the most minute parts of design architecture and it will ultimately go nowhere. See: TNE, Dead Man's Hand, Cyberpunk Fantasy Heartbreaker, Fantasy Kitchen Sink, etc, etc.
The only way a system gets done on the Den is if one person (usually Frank, Prak or Koumei) already has the idea and the vision, and only uses the peanut gallery for brainstorming and catching things they have missed. Or they post their mostly-complete heartbreaker in IMOI. All the money in the world won't get us assholes to cooperate with each other for more than five minutes.
I wonder what's the actual time record of Denner co-operation.
"Lurker and fan of random stuff." - Icy's occupation
sabs wrote:And Yes, being Finnish makes you Evil.
virgil wrote:And has been successfully proven with Pathfinder, you can just say you improved the system from 3E without doing so and many will believe you to the bitter end.
Considering the usual "five minutes before things go to hell", that's more than impressive.
"Lurker and fan of random stuff." - Icy's occupation
sabs wrote:And Yes, being Finnish makes you Evil.
virgil wrote:And has been successfully proven with Pathfinder, you can just say you improved the system from 3E without doing so and many will believe you to the bitter end.
icyshadowlord wrote:I wonder what's the actual time record of Denner co-operation.
Me and K. We made four and a half books before things fell apart.
-Username17
I was under the impression you two were brothers and living under the same roof at the time. Therefore you could smack sense into each other when necessary.
At the time, K lived in Oakland and I lived in Santa Cruz. We are not brothers. We were close enough to have face to face meetings, which is important. But it's not like we saw each other every day.
You can get a lot more cooperation and productivity out of people here if it's not done here. Have your discussions elsewhere and limit them to just the people involved in the project. And if anyone new joins the project late in the game you don't let them restart old discussions, they get to be on the same page as everyone else has been for however long the page has been picked. And you really don't show it off to the Den until it's mostly complete and you're looking for bugs or whatever.
That lets you avoid all of the low level design arguments that lock projects up forever, since that stuff is already set when new people join or you come back with something. And then half of us probably ignore it when you do bring it back because it's not what we're looking for and the time for input that would have moved it in that direction is long past. Posting here at the start is a lot like trying to please everyone, and there's not much point in pleasing people who aren't going to contribute to a free volunteer project if it comes at the expense of pleasing yourself.
Bihlbo wrote:I propose K moves to Prague. Anyone else want to come?
If people are moving, they should move here to Guangzhou. Low-cost of living, good internet infrastructure, plentiful artists you can hire for cheap, and you can make $30-$100/hour tutoring English to rich kids. Drawbacks include pollution, shitty hospitals, and an oppressive government that continually spies on and censors its own people.
TarkisFlux wrote:You can get a lot more cooperation and productivity out of people here if it's not done here.
TarkisFlux wrote:Have your discussions elsewhere and limit them to just the people involved in the project. And if anyone new joins the project late in the game you don't let them restart old discussions, they get to be on the same page as everyone else has been for however long the page has been picked. And you really don't show it off to the Den until it's mostly complete and you're looking for bugs or whatever.
That's making a big assumption that the people who need to be involved in the discussions are available when the discussions are happening. That requires pacing, scheduling, and organization. Start there, or expect some of the best ideas to come trickling in a week or two after you thought the discussion was closed.
Psychic Robot wrote:chock full of aspie
"BEEP BEEP BOOP DOES NOT COMPUTE"
TarkisFlux wrote:Have your discussions elsewhere and limit them to just the people involved in the project. And if anyone new joins the project late in the game you don't let them restart old discussions, they get to be on the same page as everyone else has been for however long the page has been picked. And you really don't show it off to the Den until it's mostly complete and you're looking for bugs or whatever.
That's making a big assumption that the people who need to be involved in the discussions are available when the discussions are happening. That requires pacing, scheduling, and organization. Start there, or expect some of the best ideas to come trickling in a week or two after you thought the discussion was closed.
I think his entire point is fuck other people, their opinions don't matter.
TarkisFlux wrote:Have your discussions elsewhere and limit them to just the people involved in the project. And if anyone new joins the project late in the game you don't let them restart old discussions, they get to be on the same page as everyone else has been for however long the page has been picked. And you really don't show it off to the Den until it's mostly complete and you're looking for bugs or whatever.
That's making a big assumption that the people who need to be involved in the discussions are available when the discussions are happening. That requires pacing, scheduling, and organization. Start there, or expect some of the best ideas to come trickling in a week or two after you thought the discussion was closed.
What? Unless you're planning on selling it for moneys and need to do some focus testing so you have a market success, everyone else can fuck right off. The people who need to be involved in the discussions are the people who are actively working on the project for free, because those are the people that you need to keep motivated and interested and involved so that it gets finished.
Scheduling isn't a big deal if you use any sort of asynchronous medium (like a forum or a wiki), but you probably do want to get people into something more immediate (like an irc chat or skype) to hammer out the early details so people can get fucking moving. The discussion can happen in any of those ways over a couple of weeks (or months if you really want to drag it out and start to lose interest), but once your core group of contributors are on the same page you let them go do their shit. You can always come back to it if someone has a great idea, but since that might result in the loss or revision of a bunch of work the expectation shouldn't be that you can join a project and get to change an established editorial direction. You might get to join late and change things, but you should also be willing to contribute in the accepted format if you get told "no, we don't feel like doing that" so you're not just wasting everyone's time like a dick.
Regarding the levels thing earlier in this thread, y'all had settled on tiers hadn't you?
So there's level 1-3 characters and they are the NPCs and guards! guards! and PCs all start at level 4 so that fiddly low-level shit is hidden in the DMG.
Level 4-9 is your base classes, and they get game-shifting capstones for making it to 9th level, like !magic! towers and huge armies and guild leadership and trade fleets and whatever else suits.
Then you have level 10-15 legendary classes. No prereqs. This is your elemental-themed druids and lich wizards and divine champions and whatever else anyone imagines might work up to ye olde 3e/PF breaking point. None of them progress a base class in any way, because Fighters and Rangers get to become liches and elementals too if they want, and cast 6th-7th level spells along with it. Capstones should all be some sort of immortality and planar network.
Then, if anyone can be bothered re-writing all the FUBAR spells, you can have epic classes. Maybe four of them for the classic class divisions of Enslavement/Heirophant, Slaughter/Warrior, Famine/ArchMage, and Death/Rogue. Maybe stretch out 8th-9th level spells through to level 21. Capstones are full divinity, or the ability to cast Wish/Miracle, which is basically the same thing.
Or something. That's more me than what I recall reading here though.
PC, SJW, anti-fascist, not being a dick, or working on it, he/him.
So where are discussions on this going to take place? Because I'd like to add what help I could.
Keys to the Contract: A crossover between Puella Magi Madoka Magica and Kingdom Hearts.
RadiantPhoenix wrote:
TheFlatline wrote:Legolas/Robin Hood are myths that have completely unrealistic expectation of "uses a bow".
The D&D wizard is a work of fiction that has a completely unrealistic expectation of "uses a book".
hyzmarca wrote:Well, Mario Mario comes from a blue collar background. He was a carpenter first, working at a construction site. Then a plumber. Then a demolitionist. Also, I'm not sure how strict Mushroom Kingdom's medical licensing requirements are. I don't think his MD is valid in New York.
codeGlaze wrote:But, of course, I had previously thought they were brothers...
This is... strange...
In a previous post, in this thread, I asked about that.
I don't even remember where I got that background from. Probably another forum. I just wanted to know more about them.
tussock wrote:Regarding the levels thing earlier in this thread, y'all had settled on tiers hadn't you?
No, we hadn't settled on anything. But among people who are kicking in edits and time and not just ideas or requests, current thinking seems to be that we make as few changes as possible and work on getting a complete SRD out. And then maybe go back and do a larger rewrite later.
So what looks likely to happen is that classes will be selected for the final work, get errataed and updated to comply with whatever slightly merged down skill set/equipment rules we settle on, and we'll put out something complete. And we'll probably ignore multiclassing for now, except to include a notice that it's often a bad plan. Larger revisions of rules (like class tiers or different skill systems or whatever) will wait for a bit, because it's hard to get people even willing to work with each other on the same page there.
With that in mind, got any classes you want to see included or excluded?
I believe he was referencing a conversation that happened over the winter. A conversation where Frank and K started arguing about Sky Warriors and stuff.
Low-cost of living, good internet infrastructure, plentiful artists you can hire for cheap, and you can make $30-$100/hour tutoring English to rich kids. Drawbacks include pollution, shitty hospitals, and an oppressive government that continually spies on and censors its own people. 
.