Drunken Review: Shadowrun 5

[Cyberzombie]

People call the game "magic run" becuase Mages are better than you. They are the only necessary archetype and are basically better than other people. And this is not because magic is necessarily superior to anything else you might be doing, but because of fundamental failures of game design. Simply put: no one has ever been able to adequately explain what exactly a "Street Samurai problem" might be during the legwork phase, and Hacker action phase actions are a rules clusterfuck. It's really that simple.

Yeah that's very true. Magic is currently overpowered in Shadowrun, because it basically does everything. Very similar to D&D. personally I've always felt that they should have doubled down on the idea that magic doesn't affect technology very much, and made it so that all magic is less effective against street samurai and other low essence targets. And the idea would be that the more you cyber up, the better you are against mages and the weaker you are against hackers, and vice versa.

Another option would be to heavily limit spell locks, so the lack of buffing cyberware hits mages harder.

But you're right about mages being too good. Like D&D, there's no great counter to magic in Shadowrun. But that's best fixed by trying to put some balancing factor on mages, because mages are simply OP, there's no getting around it. There's a variety of ways you can tone them down, but they certainly need some kind of nerf.

At the very least you can set up some kind of rock-paper-scissors counter system where: Street Samurai > mage > hacker/physical adept > Street samurai.

All having a lower combat admixture does is highlight how useless the Street Samurai archetype is.

This is another reason I don't feel that the hacker needs a combat buff, because that further marginalizes the street samurai. The street sam does need some other roles. Like the D&D fighter, he's always been somewhat lacking in useful skills that don't involve shooting people, and that should change in some way. The SR5 change is awful, we can agree on that one. In fact, if this thread has done anything, it's convinced me not to buy SR5 and stick to SR4.

The thing is, I just don't see any benefit in trying to buff the hacker up to mage levels if you want to keep the street samurai around at all. The hacker at the very least can do stuff right now that a mage can't, which is more than the street samurai has going for him. Handing the street samurai's killing power onto the hacker doesn't really solve anything other than further marginalize what the street samurai can do. Unless you want to have hacker completely absorb the street samurai's concept, all you're doing is creating a bigger problem in balancing the street samurai, since the one role he's good at is getting handed to everyone.

[Kaelik]

Your example solution of low essense being mage immune is shit, because it actually removes mages from the game.

It just means you have low essence high gun usage people who can murder mages by the score, and low essence high hacking moderate gun people who can murder those guys by the score and still murder mages.

If you go that rought then literally everyone is a hacker with moderate gunning and low essence, because then you get to murder everyone of every kind with optimal effeciency, and no one can murder you. And you hire a face who doesn't go on missions because anyone with essence above .0001 is a liability.

[Ice9]

I don't think that "some classes are for combat, some are for non-combat" works for Shadowrun, at least with anything even remotely resembling the system it has/had. In short, everything takes too damn long for sitting out to be acceptable.

When, in D&D, you're trying to find your way through a jungle, and only the Ranger or Druid has the relevant skill, that's totally ok. Because it only takes 5 minutes of real time. They roll a few times, done. Maybe there's a fight with a bear or something, but everybody gets to participate in that, so fine.

In SR (and D&D, for that matter), sitting out combat means often an hour or more, which is just unacceptable for most people. So yes, everyone needs to be doing shit in combat, at least to the degree of being more useful than if they hid behind something.

And in SR, the legwork also takes an hour+, much of the time. So having nothing to contribute there is the same problem.

[virgil]

Your example solution of low essense being mage immune is shit, because it actually removes mages from the game.

I'm surprised you didn't comment on how his response to Frank saying that mages aren't necessarily superior but that Street Samurai have nothing to do is to say "agreed, we should nerf mages!"

[Username17]

Section.7 Riggers

In modern days, many people ask what the difference between a Rigger and a Hacker is. After all, both of them are controlling machines, what difference does it make if one of those machines specifically has wheels? Well, back in first edition, the Rigger wasn't an alternate Decker, they were an alternate Street Samurai. Your VCR (“vehicle control rig”) wasn't an alternate cyberdeck, it was an alternate set of wired reflexes. You got body mods that made you murderously competent and move at super speed, but it only worked when you turned your body off and projected yourself into a machine. The VCR cost the same essence as Wired Reflexes (but a lot less money because it was less hideously illegal), and was supposed to be basically the same thing – except that the end result was that it pumped your enhanced reflexive maneuvers into the vehicle you were piloting.

Riggers were a relatively popular archetype for a minor archetype, helped in no small part by the fact that they were almost unbelievably powerful. You were basically a Street Samurai who only had to pay essence for speed and sensory gear – all the armor and strength and shit you got for zero essence because it was part of the death machine you were plugged into. The Drone thing was never really all that well thought out, but seemingly you could have like half a dozen machine guns while the other players were worried about the weight and concealability of a heavy pistol. When a Rigger character really “let loose” there was a quite common reaction of everyone else at the table to ask “Why am I even here?” And when they did that, it was barely audible over the sounds of jet powered murder robots firing heavy artillery. Also, Rigger characters had a high tendency to get “rebooted” because it was easy for a Rigger to lose so much equipment that it was better to just retire and start a new character.

Unlike Rockers and Pirates, the Rigger got their own book in the first three editions. They only didn't get a proper book in SR4 because the production schedule fell apart with the collapse of FanPro and then the great embezzlement exodus. It was totally on the schedule, and IIRC it was supposed to be called “Motor Pool.” But I may be misremembering that. That they got so much more support than other secondary archetypes is telling. They might have even gotten elevated to the canon of a core archetype if they hadn't been so frankly weird and over-the-top crazy overpowered. Special note: the only one of my PCs that appears in an official Shadowrun book is Chun the Unavoidable, who was a Rigger and an Aspected Conjurer in 3rd edition because I am an unrepetent powergamer. He appears unnamed on page 118 of Augmentation having had his arm lopped off, and named on page 130 of the same book being incapacitated with botulism. But just so you know: he is a Conjurer and a Rigger.

Gradually the whole Rigger concept has been lost and muddled. The entire thing about using your whole body to command a giant robot like you were an Eva pilot has been lost by the wayside. In Shadowrun 4 they were basically just Hackers who happened to send wireless commands to murderbots rather than botnets. I can certainly imagine thinking that was a shame, and the authors of Shadowrun 5 appear to believe that it is.

The opening tirade of this chapter is all about “becoming the machine” and is pretty much a throwback to the original 1st edition rigging description. Of course, that's all nonsense because the Control Rig cyberware in this game is headware, not bodyware like it was in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd edition. So there's some nostalgia driven rants at the start of the chapter, but really we're still deeply in the “Riggers are just a Hacker Specialization” thing that 4th edition introduced and the nostalgia fiction is just weird ramblings by people who have forgotten what century it is.

Some control methods can be overridden by other methods, and the highest in this order controls the device. At the top of the order is rigger control, followed by remote control, then manual control, and lastly autopilot.

Those two sentences probably look pretty weird. This is because they are actually pretty damn weird. Not the part where apparently sending remote commands to a device somehow overrides physically pointing the device at things and pushing the button, but that the remote controlling of a device by a rigger is treated as a fundamentally different beast that automatically beats out any other kind of remote control you happen to have. This is a legacy of the old full-body rigging systems, and in the new era where rigging actually is just computer commands being sent back and forth like any other, it no longer makes any sense.

Riggers are great in a fight. A single rigger can put several combat drones into a fight at once and use them as a mobile strike force or for suppressive fire. In larger spaces or on the run, a rigger in a tricked-out vehicle can be as effective as a tank.

If you were concerned that maybe Shadowrun 5 had done something to address the incredible combat disparity between the Rigger and the entire rest of the team, don't worry. They have not. It's kind of worse now than it's ever been. All the other characters have to fuck around trying to get around the one attack limit each initiative pass. Riggers just get to be in several places at once and each drone gets to shoot separately and simultaneously.

Back in the day, Riggers got to move at Street Samurai speeds because they had spent essence out the ass (literally, it goes all the way past your sacrum) to trick out their body to merge with the vehicles. In SR4 and SR5, the full-body rigs are gone completely, but Riggers still get to move at Street Samurai speeds because they are in VR and full VR gives you Street Samurai initiative. This doesn't normally matter for Hackers, because it takes them like a thousand actions to even find a lightswitch, but for Riggers, their actions are spent maneuvering killer robots armed with military weapons. So it's kind of a big deal. This means that unlike in SR1, where Riggers were better than you because they only had to pay for their super speed and senses and could get all the resilience and other badassery for zero essence by upgrading their robots... nowadays Riggers only have to pay for their senses and even the super speed is free. You're welcome.

In the early nineties, much was made of the “drone control deck.” This was a thing that was kind of like a cyberdeck, but also totally not at all like one because the Decker and the Rigger shared very little space. It looked like this:



And yeah, before you get too cocky about how oldschool that shit is, I should probably remind you that the real drone control decks we have today look like this:



So actually that shit was futuristic in 1991. And it's modern now. The thing is that by 2075 or even 2050 that shit will obviously be archaic. Nevertheless, the authors of Shadowrun 5 are really insistent that “rigger command consoles” are briefcase sized. It comes off as retro-stupid, but I assume that was the goal. So point for them I suppose. Each Rigger's control deck has quite severe limits on how many drones it can control, but there is in fact nothing at all stopping you from hackastacking those things together in a giant RCC sandwiches and having arbitrarily large drone armies. The rules are written as if you only have the one command console, and “it” affects your stats while you're in VR. But there's nothing stopping there from being two, three, or eight other open command consoles, and the rules get a bit incoherent at that point. I assume you only get the bonuses for your best one, but it doesn't exactly say that anywhere.

[img]data:image/jpeg;base64,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[/img]
Rigger cockpits probably look like this, because they want to have a lot of briefcase sized things they can push buttons on in order to have enough firepower to take on the Seattle Metroplex Guard by themselves.

There is a whole world of rules for getting hacked when you're a rigger. Hackers can take control of your death machines and go on rampages of their own. You'd think this might be a really worthwhile thing for Hackers to do, and possibly even be a justification for them to exist considering how ridiculously over the top the death machines are. But it actually takes many rounds to take over a drone, as in one. And the Rigger has a flight squad of those things. And the Rigger can reboot his drones one at a time in the middle of a Hacker wrestling him for control. So if the Hacker spends his full time going after the Rigger's robots, he can cause an occasional action loss for some of the death machines. It's pretty lame.

Each Drone has its own limit of how many programs it can run. That's the thing the lets Hackers have as many matrix programs as they want by filling their pockets full of spiders. But it's also the thing where drones pretty much can't operate independently because those program slots can also be filled with autosofts, which are each a rated skill. So if you want a drone to be able to walk and chew bubblegum on its own, it needs two program slots. And your program slots are half your device rating. Now what a drone's device rating actually is seems a bit up in the air. In the section on device ratings they tell you that drones have a device rating of 2, but in the rigging section it tells you that drones have a device rating equal to their pilot attribute and in the gear section all but one drone in the lists has a Pilot of 3 (the remaining drone is the AZT Crawler, which has a Pilot of 4). That's really an important difference, because at Device Rating 2 they can only have a Maneuvering Autosoft or a Targeting Autosoft and not both, while at Device Rating 3 or 4 they could have both of those things. But they still couldn't have both those things and a “Clearsight” Autosoft, which it needs to actually identify targets. You see how this might be a problem. Fortunately for the Rigger, your network can run a number of communal Autosofts and all the Drones can bask in shared glory. But truly autonomous drones are basically incapable of doing things. It's kind of amazing, the drone program slots break the game in pretty much every way I could imagine such slots to be harmful to the system.

Not having learned anything at all from the Game, Set, and Match fiasco, the Rigger chapter ends with a one page example. I'm not kidding, it takes up the entire page. It is 1,187 words long. It details a conflict between a Hacker and a Rigger. You know what? Fuck it. Let's spoiler up this whole bad boy:

Driver is chilling out in his modded Eurocar Westwind providing
surveillance and overwatch for his team. He’s currently jacked into his
Maersk Spider Remote Command Console (RCC). He is running Biofeedback
Filter, Signal Scrub, and Clearsight autosofts for the Optic-X,
rotodrone, and LDSD-41 drones slaved to it, along with the Westwind.
He isn’t jumped into any of his vehicles at the moment and is instead
watching everything in VR. All of his drones and his RCC are running
silent but he has left the Eurocar visible on the Matrix so he doesn’t look
suspicious.
Spike is a decker with a serious grudge against Driver due to
a certain disagreement over whether Driver should date his sister.
Spike is parked in a nearby alley a mere fifty meters away. He only
sees Driver’s car and his cheap throwaway commlink on the Matrix
in AR, so he jacks into his Renraku Tsurugi and starts scanning the
local area. Spike has set his deck configuration for troublemaking
(Attack 6, Sleaze 3, Data Processing 5, Firewall 5) and is currently
running silent.
Spike performs a Matrix Perception actions, knowing that Driver’s
RCC and his rotodrone are running silent within 100 meters. He makes a
Computer + Intuition [Data Processing] roll, while Driver and his drone
make their Logic + Sleaze rolls. Spike gets at least one net it on each
icon, locating both devices. He can’t find the Optic-X or the LDSD-41
because they’re too far away.
Spike’s icon pulls out a glowing wedge as he uses his Hack on the
Fly action to try to slap a mark on the Rotodrone. Spike would normally
roll Hacking + Logic [Sleaze] v. Intuition + Firewall, but the rotodrone is
slaved to Driver’s RCC and can therefore use the RCC’s Firewall instead.
Spike succeeds, and the wedge slips into the drone’s icon and and then
dissolves into a tiny little iridescent bulls-eye emblem. This puts one
mark on the rotodrone and a matching one on Driver’s RCC, since it’s
the master device
With no obvious alert, Spike gives it another shot. This time he goes
for two marks and taking the –4 penalty. Rolling Hacking + Logic [Sleaze]
v. Intuition + Firewall, the rotodrone gets more hits. Wrong move, Spike
gets marked. Since the rotodrone is a device, its master Driver gets the
mark on Spike and the jig is up.
The gamemaster calls for Initiative to be rolled and we enter Combat
Turns.
Initiative Scores are: Spike 23, Driver 19, rotodrone 14
Initiative Pass one starts with Spike on 23. He drops silent running
and makes another Hack on the Fly action (Hacking + Logic [Sleaze] v.
Intuition + Firewall) against the rotodrone and scores 2 net hits. He now
has 2 marks on Driver’s persona.
The rotodrone initiates Full Matrix Defense, decreasing its Initiative
Score but giving it a bonus equal to its Pilot rating (used in place of Intuition).
It doesn’t take any action this Action Phase since it has no current
commands to follow.
Driver recognizes the icon of Spike that just appeared fifty meters
away when the mark hit him, and he knows what this is all about. He
uses the Send Message Simple action to command his rotodrone to attack
the vehicle Spike is in. His second Simple Action goes to another
Send Message action for the Optic-X to lock onto the car and follow it
if it gets away.
With a command to follow and having not acted in this Action
Phase, the drone swings out of the alley and comes around to attack
the car, peppering the car with gel rounds as commanded. No one rolls
since the Stun damage does nothing but make a lot of noise and mess
up the cosmetics of the car.
The gamemaster drops Initiative Scores by 10 and starts the second
Initiative Pass: Spike 13, Driver 9, Rotodrone –6 (it had already lost 10 for
its Full Matrix Defense).
Spike doesn’t realize he’s being shot with gel rounds and uses a
Data Spike action on the rotodrone. He rolls Cybercombat + Logic [Attack]
v. Intuition + Firewall. As the drone is a slave to Driver, he battles
Driver’s Intuition and Firewall, plus his Willpower since the rotodrone
is using Full Matrix Defense. He scores 4 points of damage on the rotodrone’s
Matrix monitor.
Driver uses a Simple Action to Send Message and orders the rotodrone
to land and reboot. Due to its defensive manuevers, the rotodrone
doesn’t have an action this pass, so it can’t follow its command yet.
Initiative Pass three leaves only Spike with an Action Phase in which
he uses Data Spike again, but after rolling poorly, he loses and takes 1
box of Matrix damage as the Firewall bounces bad code back at him.
It’s the start of a new Combat Turn, and the new Initiative Scores
after rolling are: Spike 17, Driver 21, Rotodrone 22, Optic-X 16.
The rotodrone lands and reboots.
Driver activates the Rating 4 area jammer in his Westwind and uses
Send Message to order the LDSD-41 (armed with real bullets, APDS in
fact) to line up a shot but await the fire command.
Spike uses Send Message to order his car to get out of there and
Check Overwatch Score to see if he’s starting to attract attention (the
answer is yes). Autopilot on the car joins Initiative, rolls 18 and immediately
reduces the total by 10 for the Initiative Pass that has gone by in
this Combat Turn, leaving it to act on 8.
LDSD-41 Takes Aim on two Simple Actions.
The second Initiative Pass makes the Initiative scores: Spike 7, Driver
11, rotodrone rebooting, LDSD-41 6, Spike’s Americar 8.
Driver uses a Jump into Rigged Device action with the Westwind
just in case.
Spike’s car rolls out of the alley and starts to drive away, obeying all
local traffic regulations.
Spike uses the Control Device action to drive the car and overrides
the autopilot as he peels away.
LDSD-41 Takes Aim on two Simple Actions.
The third Initiative Pass (Initiative Scores: Spike –3, Driver 1, Rotodrone
rebooting, LDSD-41 –4, Spike’s Americar –2) starts and ends
with Driver laughing at the car driving away and using Send Message to
send a message to Spike that says, “We’ll talk later.”
At the end of the Combat Turn, the rotodrone completes its reboot
and comes back online, free of marks.
A new Combat Turn and the new Initiative Scores are: Spike 24,
Driver 23, rotodrone 18, LDSD-41 16, Spike’s car 14.
Spike uses a Data Spike action and attacks Driver’s RCC. He rolls
Cybercombat + Logic [Attack] v. Intuition + Firewall and hits the RCC
with 3 boxes of damage.
Driver uses a Send Message action to send Spike a message saying,
“Could have been your head! Walk away!!!” and a second Send
Message action to order the LDSD-41 to fire.
LDSD-41 fires and nearly disables the car.
Spike uses Send Message to reply, “Peace. See you later.”
Driver angrily goes back to being on watch, pissed that he has to
deal with his girlfriend’s spoiled corp-kid of a brother.

Now obviously, someone likes to read themselves talk. And you probably noticed how many steps are glossed over or condensed. It's a lot. This is an absolute ass tonne of die rolls to handle a relatively trivial confrontation. And did you notice how the Rigger completely roflstomps the Decker just by rebooting one of his drones? He can have have a dozen other drones shooting the fuck out of things while he does that with one of his drones to troll Deckers. It's ridiculous and makes Hackers all sad face. Riggers don't even need to drop out completely, because they can selectively use Drop Out on any part of their network whenever they want to completely pwn Hackers without even having relevant Matrix skills.


Help! My computer is all sadface because I tried to play a Decker in these fucking rules!

[Kaelik]

Your example solution of low essense being mage immune is shit, because it actually removes mages from the game.

I'm surprised you didn't comment on how his response to Frank saying that mages aren't necessarily superior but that Street Samurai have nothing to do is to say "agreed, we should nerf mages!"

I don't play Shadowrun enough to be sure about the actual things to do of Mages/Street Sams/Hackers/Faces/Things, so while the logic is really dumb, and probably comes from the exact place that D&D does, and is probably just as stupid, I don't want to get pulled into that argument about a system I know substantially less about, because that would be a lot less fun for me than waiting until the next D&D mage thread where he will say the same thing.

[Cyberzombie]

In SR (and D&D, for that matter), sitting out combat means often an hour or more, which is just unacceptable for most people. So yes, everyone needs to be doing shit in combat, at least to the degree of being more useful than if they hid behind something.

Well, no one is suggesting a hacker who has no combat potential at all. It's really a question of degree of how useful he is in combat and whether you want all roles to be equally good in every combat or if it's okay if some characters are less proficient in some combats than others.

There's also a flavor concern, where the character plays to his archetype 24/7. There are D&D players who want spellcasters to always cast spells. That is, the wizard never pulls a crossbow and fires it, and will instead have some at-will cantrip. Similarly you get people in Shadowrun who want hackers to be 24/7 hackers. Every problem they encounter needs to be solveable in some way with their primary schtick or the character feels less hacker-y.

I'm of the camp where I'm okay if a D&D wizard has to pull out a crossbow from time to time and I'm okay with a hacker or a SR mage using a gun. I prefer characters more well rounded where there aren't all-encompassing primary schticks.

And while all this stuff is interesting to discuss, I'm going to stop discussing that stuff in this thread because this thread is about how SR5 sucks, and not about fixing SR in general, because that certainly could and should have a thread of its own.

[Whipstitch]

Aren't street samurai supposed to be the swiss army knife jack of all trades master of none kind of characters instead of the specialist matrix and magic users?
If so, (why/how) should they HAVE a protected role at all?

Unfortunately, there's a discrepancy between what the system supports and what it claims to do. Many example character types have tried and failed to claim the generalist crown and many of them didn't even make it to 4th edition. Hell, the Former Company Man--a Johnny Mnemonic style courier with headware and knack for knowing other people's secrets--couldn't even make it to 3rd edition. Plus, there's that whole thing where people often aren't all that bright. For every gamer who notices that the corebook sr4 Samurai can damn near default to pools as good as the Weapon Specialist there's another two people who beat their heads against the wall by trying to build generalists who lack 'ware entirely. Many people just aren't willing to accept the idea of Samurai as generalists even though it should be pretty obvious that vehicle riggers and dedicated summoners function better as unsubtle artillery pieces.

[Nath]

SR5 of course really puts the boot in on the Street Samurai - reduced social limits because go fuck yourself

Run and Gun is going to solve this issue. Just put on your "Ace of Coins" black coat in juggernaut leather by Vashon Island for 2100¥ and increase your Social Limit by 3 (you also gets an additional +1 dice pool bonus to any Social Tests if wireless is enabled).

Since Inherent Limits are rounded up, the lowest you can get is 2 (even for the Social Limits, since Essence is always going to be > 0, if not by much). So anyone wearing this coat has a Social Limit of at least 5 (and 7 for the average person, with Charisma 3 and Willpower 3).

[Username17]

SR5 of course really puts the boot in on the Street Samurai - reduced social limits because go fuck yourself

Run and Gun is going to solve this issue. Just put on your "Ace of Coins" black coat in juggernaut leather by Vashon Island for 2100¥ and increase your Social Limit by 3 (you also gets an additional +1 dice pool bonus to any Social Tests if wireless is enabled).

I like how Shadowrun 5 has transcended parody such that it is literally impossible to tell if someone is sarcastically making fun of it or actually reporting something the design committee came up with for serious. It's llike Poe's Law, but for shitty game design.

-Username17

[kzt]

Well, no one is suggesting a hacker who has no combat potential at all. It's really a question of degree of how useful he is in combat and whether you want all roles to be equally good in every combat or if it's okay if some characters are less proficient in some combats than others.

My opinion is that hackers as a single thing are obsolete. So we should stop trying to carve out some sort of protected niche for the dedicated computer guy. Anyone running around doing horribly illegal things in a cyberpunkish world should know how to manipulate computers and electronics, or they will, at best, soon find themselves sitting sitting in a small concrete room for a long time.

[RadiantPhoenix]

Run and Gun is going to solve this issue. Just put on your "Ace of Coins" black coat in juggernaut leather by Vashon Island for 2100¥ and increase your Social Limit by 3 (you also gets an additional +1 dice pool bonus to any Social Tests if wireless is enabled).

Since Inherent Limits are rounded up, the lowest you can get is 2 (even for the Social Limits, since Essence is always going to be > 0, if not by much). So anyone wearing this coat has a Social Limit of at least 5 (and 7 for the average person, with Charisma 3 and Willpower 3).

Until I recognized your username, this post made me think you were a spambot posting ads.

[A Man In Black]

It reminds me of Shadowrun Returns where they claimed that street sams would be able to see ambush points and tactical features, while mages could sense ley lines that they could occupy for magical advantage and hackers could play the decking game. The last two made it in, the first didn't. I guess it's only people like me who like being a mundane asskicker that'll play them.

In SR Returns, the only challenges that can stop you from progressing can be shot in the face, so Street Sam is perfectly viable. All of the non-combat challenges are strictly deterministic, entirely optional, or are done off-camera by characters who have vaguely-described plot-solving toolsets.

Fuck me, half of Dragonfall is shooting people to earn the money to pay someone to investigate the plot for you. I don't get why that game is getting all of the acclaim it's getting, because the plot is dumb as hell.

[Silent Wayfarer]

They mainly wank over the NPC writing, like Glory.

[Stahlseele]

@Frank:
I will now start hating on your cockmunching assface because you reminded me of the fail that is MWO with that picture. Fuck you, and the Horse you rode out on! ò,Ó;,

@VCD: At least under SR3 you could have an implanted Version of that.
Or you could plonk one into a convieniently available Cyber-Limb with enough space in it and save a BOAT LOAD of Essence doing so. Same with Cyberdecks actually. Just put it into the Limb that takes up 1 point of Essence at Standard Grade or 0,8 at Alpha and do NOT plonk it into your supple manflesh where it takes up 2-4 points of Essence. Just add 0,1 Essence for a DNI into the Cyberlimb.

I think i remember there being a tidbit in the SR4 rules somewhere that allowed to put additional Gear into Limbs too. Seeing how you basically wrote the book on SR4 Cyberlimbs quite literally in this case, i guess you'd know about that a bit better than my mediocre memory will allow me to.

If you find something like that in the SR5 Core-Rules for Cyberware, i'd appreciate it if you were to mention it.



@Street-Samurai Jack of all Trades, Master of none, literal swiss Army Knife Character:
Skillwires. It works. Fucking expensive shit, but oh hell is it worth it, if you can pull it off in a not too dumb way.
Never again spend Karma on Skills if you don't want to.
And using the Attribute+Skill Dice-Pool-Mechanic means you can get good enough dice pools for most anything too.
Under SR3 this was quite a bit harder to actually accomplish, but even there it kinda sorta worked and was actually worth it, if you thought it up competently enough in character generation.

[A Man In Black]

They mainly wank over the NPC writing, like Glory.

Her deep dark secret is the biggest goddamned cliche in the game, and this is a game that ripped off Wintermute and Alexstrasza without even filing the fucking numbers off.

Also, she seems to be planning some sort of interesting adventure to resolve her backstory. Too bad they couldn't have made some sort of game about it!

I will now start hating on your cockmunching assface because you reminded me of the fail that is MWO with that picture. Fuck you, and the Horse you rode out on!

Yeah MWO is shit.

[name_here]

The troll weapon lady annoyed me enough that I never bothered talking to the rest of them.

[Rawbeard]

Dragonfall can't be bothered to keep it's dates straight. Some Shadowtalkers got killed off screen that didn't exist yet or kept posting on Shadowland. Both Dunkelzahn and (the) Ghostwalker were referenced as active threats... whoever wrote this was dumbsterdiving for names and didn't talk to the other writers. Gee, those guys learned a lot from CGL.

I really liked the few sidemissions you could talk your way through, though.

[Stahlseele]

but at least SHE was combat effective . . .
The Glory Hole was mostly useless aside from carrying a but load of healing stuff . .

[Ed]

but at least SHE was combat effective . . .
The Glory Hole was mostly useless aside from carrying a but load of healing stuff . .

I found it to be pretty much the exact opposite. Adrenaline pump and hand razors, for some unknowable reason, trump shotgun and sniper rifle.

[Smirnoffico]

I found it to be pretty much the exact opposite. Adrenaline pump and hand razors, for some unknowable reason, trump shotgun and sniper rifle.

Glory is good at the start of the game when she rips everything with her claws. As the game progresses, she gets worse and worse as 10 damage per attack doesn't scare anyone. And right at that point Eiger becomes a combat monster.

But yeah, fluff in that game is pure shit. Clockwork dying two or three times and Ghostwalker being mentioned in the 50s are just most glaring examples. And game engine is still beyond fucking awful.

[Lago PARANOIA]

I still want to know why Shadowrun should support the mundane superhacker archetype at all past a certain point. Shadowrun sure as hell doesn't support the mundane superspy/super-street samurai past a certain point.

I'm perfectly cool with the hacker archetype going 'lol no' to dropout and stopping peoples' hearts with timed EMP pulses and brainwashing a security team with binaural beats set to their favorite Freddie Mercury song. That sounds fucking awesome. I am offended though that the characters who can do these things are Cheeto-stained otakus who bought their equipment off EBay and got their training as a computer science adjunct professor at MIT.

Awww, did the big bad corporation derail Cody's l33t hacking skills by pulling the plug on the server? Fuck you. Get some phlebtonium. I don't care whether you do it through transhumanist brain replacement or machine spirits or by frying your brain with a weird EMP pulse or by getting some kind of weird psychic mutation or by injecting liquidified cow brains into your neck, but get some fucking phlebtonium. This kind of shit wouldn't happen to you if your concept didn't suck ass.

[Ed]

Her criticals start ramping up quickly at that point, though. I was regularly doing 18-24 damage per hit and hitting five times a round. She killed that asshole at the end of the game in two rounds.

[LR]

Get some phlebtonium.

I don't really understand what you're saying here. Magical hacking boxes that only work if you plug them into your brain are supposed to be the standard in Shadowrun. Serious hackers look at you funny if you don't have weird brain-boosting implants installed. The only thing I can think of is that you're complaining about the people who balk at brainhacking, but you sound like you want Drop Out to be a thing.

[Silent Wayfarer]

but at least SHE was combat effective . . .
The Glory Hole was mostly useless aside from carrying a but load of healing stuff . .

Glory was actually more effective than Eiger because RNG God decided to shit all over the troll. She missed half a dozen 80+% accuracy shots.

At least Glory has her Adrenal Implants and AoE claws (with bleeding) and can actually hit worth a damn. If nothing else she can open a fucking door so my sam MC can fill everyone inside full of lead.

And I don't have anything relevant to contribute here. So... cockbarrels.