deanruel87 wrote:At least in the quote I'm referencing it wasn't said that it wasn't a big deal but that it had become much more taboo to speak about recently. No sane person could declare rape as "No biggy" but you could completely correctly say that talking about rape issues has become a much more explosive and divisive conversation in the last 5 years.
He didn't say that talking about rape is more taboo. He said that the inclusion of rape in your fucking gaming game is so taboo because "militant feminists" insist that before you include rape in your games you should "indulge" the "attitudes" of anti-rape "activists."
Now, you'll note that is not actually in any way related to reality where the inclusion of rape is taboo because all feminists, and plenty of not feminists insist that before you include rape in your games you should think about and respond appropriately to the feelings of rape victims, and frankly, anyone else who does not want to deal with that shit.
But further more, the specific ways he is wrong are all indicative of being a shitbag who is okay with rape, and when it was pointed out to him that those things are wrong, he doubled the fuck down again and again on being even more of a shitbag.
Continue reading for more examples of him whining about how he shouldn't have to stop talking about rape just because it horribly hurts rape victims he is talking to.
wotmaniac wrote:because now that I've gone back and read what I typed, I see that I left out a key phrase: "the discussion of", as in "the discussion of rape". And the act of trying to have a discussion has become taboo -- and I don't think that I am at all comfortable with that kind of precedent. Seriously -- I've been told flat-out more than once "you don't know what it's like, so you don't have a right to talk about it". And I've seen several other people spout that same sentiment. That's not "don't judge me", that's not "don't talk like you understand", that's literally "not allowed to speak any words on the topic" -- and that's seriously fucked up (never mind that they apparently knew nothing of my personal history; but that's neither here nor there). And these people really are becoming more and more prevalent -- and that shit ain't good.
If people don't want to talk about rape, they damn well get to not talk about rape. If someone brings up rape in a way that offends them, and then they point that out, and that person decides to defend any and every comment they ever made about rape over and over like you are doing in this thread, but in real life where walking away might be harder, they can then say "No, let's not talk about the horrible shitty thing that you know nothing about that hurts me to talk about." And if they don't word it fucking perfectly you can suck a barrel of cocks, because you do nothing but call "let me clarify" over and over, but they don't want to say that, because they want to stop fucking talking about it.
On the other hand, if someone on a forum, or everyone on a forum, tells you that you are being a shitbag, and that the things you are saying are offensive as fuck and wrong, then you should either not double down and keep defending yourself as totally right, or not be surprised when people keep calling you a shitbag.
wotmaniac wrote:I didn't say "victim-apotheosis" -- I said "victimhood-apotheosis". It has nothing to do with the victims themselves, and everything to do with the statusof being a victim. The difference is subtle; but it is an important distinction, nonetheless. And it's related to the previous point.
No, you're not going to find that on a google search, because it's my own personal characterization. It's a characterization of this emerging idea that victims (regardless of whatever tragic events they've endured) should be somehow completely insulated from the rest of the world; and non-victims should stand in literal awe of a victim because of their plight. It also endorses the idea that a victim, based on that status, is somehow owed "something" by society as a whole. It's fucking weird; it's counter-productive; and it ain't right.
It is a distinction without a difference, because that offensive shitty shit there is exactly what I thought you meant. No one anywhere ever is insisting that rape victims are owed anything but common fucking decency we provide to all sorts of other people. For fucks sake most people understand that concept that you don't go around talking about people's mother's dying in car accidents because it might upset them, and the only differences between that and rape is that being reminded of rape probably hurts more and you are less likely to know if someone has been raped so you should be more circumspect.
When you talk about how there is an emerging idea that victims need to be insulated, you are genuinely hurting victims. Because as I have said before, absolutely no one anywhere is over protecting victims, so you characterizing that as a thing demeans and undermines all the people who are actually trying to protect victims the correct amount, which is more than anyone does.
wotmaniac wrote:Yes, there is profit in disingenuously co-opting and exploiting victim advocacy:
No there isn't, and you whining about it undermines actual victim advocacy, which is fucking necessary.
wotmaniac wrote:* there are people everyday who simply want to make a name for themselves by getting on T.V., so that they can pump-up their careers. That's not to say that that's even the majority. But it is there, and in non-insignificant #s.
And the way you tell them apart from people who just actually want to help victims is that they talk about rape victims, and treating women better, where the good honest people talk about how you can keep going on in your day and not give a shit about rape victims.
Let me be clear, you are decrying some unspecified unidentifiable number of frauds with no evidence because you perceive that it must be a problem, and in so doing are hurting the actual non frauds, and not hurting any frauds that might exist.
No, bad wot. Don't advocate for voter ID laws to stop minorities from voting because you feel like there is voter fraud when there isn't, and don't decry victim advocacy because you feel like there are frauds even though there aren't.
wotmaniac wrote:* Some people just like the attention -- and for them, that's motive enough.
Yeah, I agree, all those damn rape victims are clearly liars who are doing it for attention. Hey, why are people getting mad at you again? Couldn't possibly be because you say stupid offensive shit that is literally identical to the defenses used by actual rapists or anything.
By the way, rapists use those defenses because people like you make them socially acceptable by promoting the idea in the first place. So stop doing that.
wotmaniac wrote:And Great Caesar's Ghost -- me saying this in no way diminishes victims nor their tragedies.
YES IT FUCKING DOES. Those things you keep saying greatly fucking diminish victims and their tragedies, and their less tragic but still shitty having to deal with people in real life who are not rapists, but are just generally assholes to rape victims.
wotmaniac wrote:I can only speak on what I'm able to observe -- and I simply don't see this society-wide denigration of rape victims.
No, you can also choose to not speak about something when you know nothing about it, and wait until you do know something about it before you open you big fat mouth.
Or hey, when you say something, and people point out that you are wrong, and possibly even provide links showing you are wrong, you can stop repeating the wrong thing you said without any knowledge in the first place, and instead you can fucking just back the fuck off your wrong and offensive comments.
For example:
wotmaniac wrote:1) "slut-hating" -- as I understand the term, this seems to be a woman-on-woman thing(?); and I must admit that I'm completely dumfounded by it. However, I do believe that that is actually a symptom of the larger woman-vs-woman phenomenon. Which, again, I can't even pretend to understand.
You don't fucking understand it. It is primarily about men, and in fact, society, hating women in general. For example, when anyone makes any derogatory comment about women for dressing sexily and/or sleeping around, which many men do constantly all the time, that is slut hating/shaming. And when any woman who has previously been accused of being a slut by anyone (primarily male) their claim to being raped is treated as being suspect by society. Including by men and women on the news, and men and women in the courtroom.
And when you, in total ignorance, say that slut-hating is just about women hating women, you are fucking defending these shitty practices and making them easier. What you should do instead is say, "Oh, I didn't realize that was such a big problem, now I will stop whining about how everyone over protects rape victims."
wotmaniac wrote:3) Police/authority figures dropping the ball -- I think that the bulk of this is symptomatic of the much larger issue of a more general systemic-deficiency breakdown. Bureaucracy is a motherfucker; and yet we keep re-electing these same bureaucracy-making sacks of shit. WTF?
And you are fucking wrong, and speaking in total fucking ignorance. The laws on rape are in many cases somewhere between extremely good and acceptable. The problem is that police officers who are not elected, choose to disobey those laws and deliberately drop the ball on rape cases because of a prevailing cultural belief that rape victims are hucksters, or that rape victims are over protected. You know, they things you keep fucking saying. Police officers often see a rape case and discourage the victim from pressing charges by asking questions that imply they think the victims was "asking for it" because she "is a slut" and "really wanted it, but is now just trying to punish the guy" and other extremely offensive things because of the cultural belief that rape victims are over protected and rape isn't as big a deal as people say it is.
SO STOP SAYING THE THINGS THAT ENFORCE THAT BELIEF. And don't try to shift blame to elected officials who have nothing to do with this just because elected officials are unpopular and they are a convenient scapegoat.
wotmaniac wrote:4) Then there's the issues of the aforementioned hucksters muddying the waters and poison the well. Yes, that shit really does exist.
Then there is the aforementioned issue of them not existing any more than evil bad voter fraud, but the fact that people deliberately bring it up in every single conversation makes everyone feel like their are actually a lot, and that shit is offensive to actual victims and actual victim advocates so STOP DOING THAT.
