Pathfinder Is Still Bad

icyshadowlord · Post by **icyshadowlord** » Thu May 08, 2014 8:37 pm

That is true, and he comes up with some weird shit at times.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Thu May 08, 2014 9:50 pm

It's weird because D&D isn't a horror game, so that kind of detail is somewhat out of place.

icyshadowlord · Post by **icyshadowlord** » Thu May 08, 2014 9:52 pm

Judging from some of the Ask James Jacobs comments, old JJ wished Pathfinder was a horror game...

Rawbeard · Post by **Rawbeard** » Thu May 08, 2014 9:57 pm

Never got that impression, but I also don't feel like defending him or paying any attention outside of what he has written and planed for androids. As long as those keep coming he can gorefuck what ever he want.

sake · Post by **sake** » Fri May 09, 2014 5:33 am

Prak_Anima wrote:It's weird because D&D isn't a horror game, so that kind of detail is somewhat out of place.

But that's wrong.

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Fri May 09, 2014 9:21 pm

icyshadowlord wrote:old JJ wished Pathfinder was a horror game...

"No casters, CR10+"

icyshadowlord · Post by **icyshadowlord** » Fri May 09, 2014 10:28 pm

...alright, Pathfinder being Caster Edition kinda goes against my earlier claim, I'll give you that.

Rawbeard · Post by **Rawbeard** » Wed May 21, 2014 6:15 am

I need some advice, or at least some snarky comments, once again.

Joined a "no holds barred, if it's in the SRD you can use it" game, but since the MC is new to this, he didn't approve of me playing a ghoul cleric. Sadface. The campaign is "Evil" and starts at level 1, open ended, I guess.

The party is made up of a Dragonrider and a Death Mage. Super Genius Games are bringing the Genius to your Games. Super.

I was planning of doing some supporty/necromanty thingy, so probably Cleric or Oracle, but if anyone has suggestions with broken as fuck 3rd party material, any advice to bring pain and suffering is very appreciated. I am also open to any fucktarded "evil only" class, or archetype, or build, or whatver.

TiaC · Post by **TiaC** » Wed May 21, 2014 7:26 am

I remember hearing about a 3rd party feat that gives you a Cha mod bonus to save DCs even if you're a Cha-based caster.

Longes · Post by **Longes** » Wed May 21, 2014 7:41 am

Rawbeard wrote:I need some advice, or at least some snarky comments, once again.

Joined a "no holds barred, if it's in the SRD you can use it" game, but since the MC is new to this, he didn't approve of me playing a ghoul cleric. Sadface. The campaign is "Evil" and starts at level 1, open ended, I guess.

The party is made up of a Dragonrider and a Death Mage. Super Genius Games are bringing the Genius to your Games. Super.

I was planning of doing some supporty/necromanty thingy, so probably Cleric or Oracle, but if anyone has suggestions with broken as fuck 3rd party material, any advice to bring pain and suffering is very appreciated. I am also open to any fucktarded "evil only" class, or archetype, or build, or whatver.

Make a half-elf Paragon Surge juju oracle

Rawbeard · Post by **Rawbeard** » Wed May 21, 2014 7:52 am

I want that 3rd party feat! It sounds so reasonable.

Paragon Surging is a little cheesy, but I will keep that in mind, just in case. Maybe addint some Eldritch Heritage for some extra cheddar.

K · Post by K » Wed May 21, 2014 8:05 am

Gah, why is the pirate AP so fucking boring... I'm getting so tired of making Sailor checks....

TiaC · Post by **TiaC** » Wed May 21, 2014 8:10 am

Also, use the race builder rules to make your perfect race.

There are greater drawbacks that function like flaws.

This class looks good, especially with the feats that let you grab class features from other classes.

Here's a 3rd party feat that shows understanding of PF being Caster Edition.

This lets you cast off another stat.

This is 3.5 persist spell.

This makes swift versions of spells.

Anyone want to touch this?

This has a lot of potential.

WTF!

Longes · Post by **Longes** » Wed May 21, 2014 9:32 am

TiaC wrote:WTF!

This is the greatest feat ever created.

momothefiddler · Post by **momothefiddler** » Wed May 21, 2014 9:40 am

Rawbeard wrote:I want that 3rd party feat! It sounds so reasonable.

I couldn't find it, but there are some other options...

First, the closest I could find.
Divine Charisma allows a divine caster to use Cha instead of Wis to determine save DCs. Not spells cast or spells per day, just DCs.

Next, some interesting feats for save DCs
Spell Finesse lets you swap your casting stat to any other mental stat. One instance of the feat applies to all spellcasting abilities, too. But you don't want to be restricted to mental stats? Well, it's not quite as loose, but...
The Air-Born, Earth-Born, and Water-Born Sorcery feats let a sorcerer swap their casting and sorcerer ability stat from Cha to Dex, Con, or Str, respectively, at the cost of forbidding a school and an element. I don't actually know how bad a limitation that is or if it can be worked around, but I remember some of the outrage on this board for the scarred witch doctor racial archetype, so I figured these had some cheese potential. I know this doesn't fit with your necromancy idea, I just don't know where else to put these feats I stumbled over and they were sorta related to adding Cha to save DCs....

Possibly more relevant is my realization, as I was reading feats, that if all 3rd party content is allowed, you have some impressive cheese potential as a crafter. For instance: (spoiler'd because it got way too long)

Craft Anywhere lets you put in a full 8 hours of crafting during a day of adventuring.
Frugal Crafting lets you craft magical things at 1/3 base cost instead of 1/2, and nonmagical things at 1/4 instead of 1/2. You of course combine this with the Hedge Magician trait. And not as exciting as the above but still useful, Fast Item Creation (that sounds like a fallout mod, not a feat) adds 1000gp to the rate of crafting per 8hrs for each time you take it. Perhaps of interest if you're going this route, Thrifty Scrollcrafter allows some variant materials and blah blah blah all you care about is that you can now write scrolls for 2.5gp*spell level*caster level instead of 12.5gp*spell level*caster level. And, of course, you're only paying 62% of that because of Frugal Crafting and Hedge Magician, which puts you at 1.55gp*sl*cl - you're making 3rd level scrolls for less than anyone else is buying 1st level ones. You're making 5th level scrolls for just under 70gp while they cost 1125 on the market. You could sell them for 562.5 and make a profit of 700% or so. Of course, that's only if the materials and methods don't reduce the base price as well as the crafting cost. If they do, even better because that reduces your crafting time! You're making 9th-level scrolls for 237.15gp, and if the base cost is double that so you can't make profit, that just means you're doing it every day. While adventuring. There are several other feats that deal with using scrolls, if you wanna go that method.

I know I've gotten a bit carried away here, but one last thing: the Artisan class gives you the ability, by third level, to shave another 10% off your time and another 25% off the cost. Even at the least beneficial stacking method, this puts your scrolls (if you go for scrolls) at 2.5*2/3*.95*.75*sl*cl - the 2nd level scrolls you'll be making at level 3 will cost you 7.125gp each. And the Artisan has Eberron's Artificer's craft reserve, too, which means that over the course of level 3, you'll be making 140 of those for free. Wanna use ten scrolls an encounter as your class feature? Go for it! Your only real problem is the 1/day creation limit, and there's probably a feat for that too (or, more likely, you won't focus entirely on scrolls - the first day or two, depending on stacking, of 3rd level you can make an amulet of natural armor +1 - for 475 of your crafting pool if you pick jewelry as your artisan specialty - without taking breaks from normal activities. And you still have 525 for whatever before spending gold).

Pseudo Stupidity · Post by **Pseudo Stupidity** » Wed May 21, 2014 10:42 am

Pathfinder: The RPG where you can pay character resources to sever your own limbs with no tangible benefit.

Is cutting off your arm something you couldn't do before?

Rawbeard · Post by **Rawbeard** » Wed May 21, 2014 11:02 am

Apparently not.

Also SKR, ladies and gents.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Wed May 21, 2014 11:19 am

Approximate Understanding is hilarious. Sorcerer 1 can qualify for Dragon Disciple. Fighter 2 can qualify for Shadowdancer.

Are there any noteworthy prestige classes where early entry via that would suddenly make them stupidly good?

Longes · Post by **Longes** » Wed May 21, 2014 12:22 pm

momothefiddler wrote: The Air-Born, Earth-Born, and Water-Born Sorcery feats let a sorcerer swap their casting and sorcerer ability stat from Cha to Dex, Con, or Str, respectively, at the cost of forbidding a school and an element. I don't actually know how bad a limitation that is or if it can be worked around, but I remember some of the outrage on this board for the scarred witch doctor racial archetype, so I figured these had some cheese potential. I know this doesn't fit with your necromancy idea, I just don't know where else to put these feats I stumbled over and they were sorta related to adding Cha to save DCs....

No, the downside is taking a godawful Elemental bloodline.

Rawbeard · Post by **Rawbeard** » Wed May 21, 2014 12:51 pm

or somehow get a subtype.

Tumbling Down · Post by **Tumbling Down** » Wed May 21, 2014 2:39 pm

TiaC wrote:Anyone want to touch this?

Surely, this was carefully thought through.

momothefiddler · Post by **momothefiddler** » Wed May 21, 2014 4:58 pm

Longes wrote:
momothefiddler wrote: The Air-Born, Earth-Born, and Water-Born Sorcery feats let a sorcerer swap their casting and sorcerer ability stat from Cha to Dex, Con, or Str, respectively, at the cost of forbidding a school and an element. I don't actually know how bad a limitation that is or if it can be worked around, but I remember some of the outrage on this board for the scarred witch doctor racial archetype, so I figured these had some cheese potential. I know this doesn't fit with your necromancy idea, I just don't know where else to put these feats I stumbled over and they were sorta related to adding Cha to save DCs....
No, the downside is taking a godawful Elemental bloodline.

Shit, I missed that entirely.

nockermensch · Post by **nockermensch** » Wed May 21, 2014 5:17 pm

Tumbling Down wrote:
TiaC wrote:Anyone want to touch this?
Surely, this was carefully thought through.

SK motherfucking R wrote:Preparing a sympathetic spell requires the normal amount of time, but casting it requires 100 times the usual casting time (with casting times of 1 standard action being treated as 1 round). Interruptions to the casting may spoil the spell as normal.

STILL WEAKER THAN POWER-ATTACK.

TiaC · Post by **TiaC** » Wed May 21, 2014 5:25 pm

Rawbeard wrote:Apparently not.

Also SKR, ladies and gents.

You can see the influence of feat points here.

It's half of Great Fortitude, so that's 5 points. It's also 2/3 of toughness so that's another 4 points. Add a bullshit bonus and you have a perfectly balanced feat.

Rawbeard · Post by **Rawbeard** » Wed May 21, 2014 5:31 pm

I wonder if he truly does not see how stupid that is.