MAGIC SOOUULLLSSSS Libertarian

Doom · Post by **Doom** » Sun Jul 13, 2014 4:12 pm

infected slut princess wrote:You guys are all idiots.

Well said. It's so funny, you can find Frank arguing some months back that the reason there's no inflation is because the banks are holding all the money, and that's why Keynesianism works.

These guys use ignorance the way how Russia uses territory...it's just too much for anything to cross.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sun Jul 13, 2014 6:07 pm

For those of you wondering what the hell that is all about, Doom is an inflation conspiracy theorist. When we engaged him and asked for him to provide data, he went directly to shadowstats. Now that probably doesn't mean anything to the gentle reader, because no sane and respectable person reads shadowstats. But the long and the short of it is that shadowstats is a website that declares that there is and has been secret double digit inflation for decades. That's a pretty extraordinary claim, and you'd think that you'd need some pretty convincing evidence to back up a claim that consumer prices were more than seven times what the government says they are - but shadowstats doesn't provide any evidence at all - they don't even collect price data. Their entire argument is that they are pretty sure the CPI is crooked, and the real number'must' be much higher.

Needless to say, when this all came to light, Doom was laughed off the thread. So he has stayed far away from making any more falsifiable claims. After all, as long as he keeps to vague general statements and ad hominem, he can't be proved wrong. Which is good for him, because he is wrong. Very wrong. And if he actually made a substantive claim of any kind, he'd be proved wrong. Again. And he knows it.

-Username17

DSMatticus · Post by **DSMatticus** » Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:07 pm

Don't worry, Doom, Frank's just being a meanie. I think you look great in your cheerleading outfit. You sure as fuck aren't ever going to be useful to this discussion in any other way, so you might as well stand there and cheer. Rah, rah, he's our man, if he can't do it, just pretend he can! Gooo ISP!

Post by **fbmf** » Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:29 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:For those of you wondering what the hell that is all about, Doom is an inflation conspiracy theorist. When we engaged him and asked for him to provide data, he went directly to shadowstats. Now that probably doesn't mean anything to the gentle reader, because no sane and respectable person reads shadowstats. But the long and the short of it is that shadowstats is a website that declares that there is and has been secret double digit inflation for decades. That's a pretty extraordinary claim, and you'd think that you'd need some pretty convincing evidence to back up a claim that consumer prices were more than seven times what the government says they are - but shadowstats doesn't provide any evidence at all - they don't even collect price data. Their entire argument is that they are pretty sure the CPI is crooked, and the real number'must' be much higher.

Needless to say, when this all came to light, Doom was laughed off the thread. So he has stayed far away from making any more falsifiable claims. After all, as long as he keeps to vague general statements and ad hominem, he can't be proved wrong. Which is good for him, because he is wrong. Very wrong. And if he actually made a substantive claim of any kind, he'd be proved wrong. Again. And he knows it.

-Username17

Careful, Frank, or Doom will PM you insults that he lacks the testicular fortitude to say in e-public.

Game On,
fbmf

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:42 pm

fbmf wrote:Careful, Frank, or Doom will PM you insults that he lacks the testicular fortitude to say in e-public.

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that he will post them in e-public, then edit his post to remove them and then PM them.

Doom · Post by **Doom** » Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:21 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:For those of you wondering what the hell that is all about, Doom is an inflation conspiracy theorist. When we engaged him and asked for him to provide data, he went directly to shadowstats. Now that probably doesn't mean anything to the gentle reader, because no sane and respectable person reads shadowstats. But the long and the short of it is that shadowstats is a website that declares that there is and has been secret double digit inflation for decades. That's a pretty extraordinary claim, and you'd think that you'd need some pretty convincing evidence to back up a claim that consumer prices were more than seven times what the government says they are - but shadowstats doesn't provide any evidence at all - they don't even collect price data. Their entire argument is that they are pretty sure the CPI is crooked, and the real number'must' be much higher.

Frank:

You've misread it, and had it explained to you many, many, times.

Here, I'll quote the site AGAIN for you:

>>One based on the pre-1990 official methodology for computing the CPI-U, and the other based on the methodology which was employed prior to 1980.<<

"pre-1990 official methodology" refers to the official (i.e., government) methodology for calculating inflation. In other words, using the methods for calculating inflation before the government changed the definition of the word "inflation" in 1990.

One more time: all Shadowstats did was show was inflation would be, IF the government were telling the truth about the effects of government changes in how it changes the calculates inflation. It's what they say on the site, it's what everyone else who reads Shadowstats says it means.

There's no claim that there's "secret" double digit inflation. Show me in that quote where there's a claim of "secret double digit inflation". Provide the evidence that what you say is true. Please.

Doom · Post by **Doom** » Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:23 pm

fbmf wrote:

Careful, Frank, or Doom will PM you insults that he lacks the testicular fortitude to say in e-public.

Game On,
fbmf

Go back to assraping children, you lying pedophile.

Is that sufficient, moron?

Doom · Post by **Doom** » Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:25 pm

DSMatticus wrote:Don't worry, Doom, Frank's just being a meanie. I think you look great in your cheerleading outfit. You sure as fuck aren't ever going to be useful to this discussion in any other way, so you might as well stand there and cheer. Rah, rah, he's our man, if he can't do it, just pretend he can! Gooo ISP!

No, no cheering here, and no pretending it's possible, although I'm sure the sight of male in a women's cheerleading outfit turns you on although I'm WAY too old for you. You've already admitted to being ineducable, past which point there is no hope.

Doom · Post by **Doom** » Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:27 pm

Kaelik wrote:
fbmf wrote:Careful, Frank, or Doom will PM you insults that he lacks the testicular fortitude to say in e-public.
Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that he will post them in e-public, then edit his post to remove them and then PM them.

More accurate to say I gave him the chance to explain his lies. But he admitted that he was just incapable of doing otherwise, and so there was no need to attempt to discuss it further.

But, like he said, when the troll patrol shows up, about all you can do is go somewhere else.

So, continue to Kaelik the thread. You guys' quotes are worth good money.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:36 pm

You know Doom, by filling up the screen you don't actually prevent people from reading the things other people said.

Chamomile · Post by **Chamomile** » Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:53 pm

Aaaaand Doom is on ignore. Also: If directly accusing people of child rape isn't against the rules, then for whatever it's worth I think it should be.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:19 am

Yeah, that big block of "You have ignored this user" all from the one guy reminds me of shadzar.

Post by **fbmf** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:46 am

Doom wrote:
Kaelik wrote:
fbmf wrote:Careful, Frank, or Doom will PM you insults that he lacks the testicular fortitude to say in e-public.
Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that he will post them in e-public, then edit his post to remove them and then PM them.
More accurate to say I gave him the chance to explain his lies. But he admitted that he was just incapable of doing otherwise, and so there was no need to attempt to discuss it further.

I've been waiting on you to ring this bell so I could discuss your PMs in public.

Now then, following this exchange on March 30, 2014:

http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?p=38 ... ht=#382930

...Doom sent me the following via PM

fuck you, you piece of shit hypocrite moderator.

Just needed to be said, is all.

I then replied:

Me wrote: "hypocrite"?

I'm going to need you to explain that part.

The next morning, he followed up with

Doom wrote: I apologize for my outburst...it was late, and I was so disappointed to see you post a lie like that. You're a mod, you shouldn't join the trolling.

That said, why do you promote trolling? I mean, DSM and Kaelik were just trolling. A man's MO, when confronted with two yapping dogs pissing themselves in excitement, dogs that are not his problem...is to walk away.

I mean, c'mon, a short statement preceded with "question" and ending with "?" is a question. Those two trolls might not be smart enough to know that a short statement preceded with "question" and ending with "?" is a question, but you are, right?

DSM is just a kid. He's been great for quotes when I give seminars on Innumeracy in the Modern World (heck, this place is a gold mine--that's the other reason I kept my outburst private. When I'm asked to prove that these quotes are real, I have to give my sources, and I want the place to be reasonably clean..I see it's too late, as the trolls pounced on my post in a matter of seconds. Oh well, proves the point further), but for me to engage him while he's trolling would just be piling on on my part, and I'm above that. He's uneducable at this age, it would just irritate him more, and I've nothing to gain by that.

Kaelik is troll through and through; how many threads have you closed now because of his crapping all over the thread? Once Kaelik starts Kaeliking, it's all over. Engaging him (it?) in conversation is pointless. I'd spend 20 pages trying to explain that a short statement preceded with "question" and ending with "?" is a question, and it would not be able to understand. I still believe it more likely that Kaelik is some sort of code; he failed that last Turing test, I might just try again soon.

Anyway, back to your lie. While I don't expect Kaelik or DSM to know, there's a counter in each of my posts, stating how many posts I have made in these troll forums. Please, use your eyes now to verify it's over 1000; it's a number way too big for Kaelik and DSM to comprehend, but I'm hoping a moderator is smart enough to realize that is a great many posts.

If, as you say, I shut down, then it should take you no time at all to find 250 threads where I've shut down after 4 posts or less.

So, prove your claim: produce these threads. Anything over 200 will be good enough to establish a MO.

On the other hand, I believe this is just another inappropriate lie.

But, I'll give you some time to back up your claim.

Take care,

Doom

I was honestly baffled by his asking me to prove my claim. He was asking me to "back up" a claim he made via PM. I mean, the website stores PMs. He had to know I would have a copy of it. For reference, the contents of the Pm I'm referencing are spoilered below.

Anyway, here's my reply in full:

You've admitted via PM that you do most of your conversations via PM (November 2011 PM to me). When I asked you why you weren't posting publicly, you gave a brief explanation and then told me

you wrote:

I was just testing the waters with you, but they might be frozen solid. My bad.

Even when I hadn't indicated that I was upset that you were PMing or thought it was chickenshit (I do, but hadn't said so then). You just decided I didn't want to talk to you because I asked why you were PMing.

Since then, I've been surprised you post publicly as often as you do. Your(sic) welcome to, but you don't like people saying mean things about you on the internet. You're not alone.

Shutting down publicly and secretly"laughing at the idiocy" via PM is your admitted MO (in the aforementioned PM*). I took you at your word.

Were you lying?

Lastly, the "you're a mod and above such things" argument really doesn't work here, as you and I have covered before.

The Great Fence Builder, Sept 2011 wrote wrote:

As I have tried to explain in the past, I draw a distinction between fbmf posting and The Great Fence Builder Speaking. fbmf is a "private citizen", so to speak. He does not speak for TGDMB management. He says what is on his mind, and you are free to tell him to go fuck himself or eat a barrel of cocks or whatever if you disagree just as if he were any other poster. On the other hand, when The Great Fence Builder Speaks, he is not participating in discussions but rather laying down and enforcing the law.
From here, second post on page:
http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=52 ... &start=100

*-For reference, here's the contents of that PM.

That PM wrote: Well, it wasn't a rant, just an observation. I've been doing most of my conversations through PMs now, as the trolling of MPSIMS has really shut down rational conversation, making such talk pointless there. Granted, it's a gaming site and not a legitimate forum for any discussion past that, but it's pretty ridiculous how bad it's gotten.

On the other hand, normal folk can still talk through PMs and laugh at the idiocy, free from the relentless trolling. I mean, after the whole "legal dictionaries, legal sites, legal documents, court cases and statements from two lawyers are all wrong" because K "took a course on it once and thinks otherwise" fiasco of a few threads ago (note: statement of fact, not "rant") nobody in their right mind should be posting in MPSIMS.

I was just testing the waters with you, but they might be frozen solid. My bad.

Take care.

Anyway, Doom then followed up with:

Doom wrote: Fair enough. How are those links coming along?

To be honest, I stared at the screen for a bit looking for some hidden meaning in what Doom was saying. I was really having trouble getting my mind around him asking me to prove his claim. After some minutes I replied:

Me, after holding my head in my hands and concentrating for a bit wrote: You have admitted it is your MO. Are you honestly asking me to prove your admission correct? As I said, I took you at your word back in 2011. Were you lying?

I suppose I could Admin Hack your account and look at your PMs and tell you which ones to look at, but that's...not really how I operate.

I'm unclear why you're asking ME to prove a claim YOU made.

(And, yes, I'm expecting you, true to form, to passive-aggressively claim victory.)

His reply:

Sigh.

Good day.

Make of that what you will, folks.

Game On,
fbmf

Sam · Post by **Sam** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:46 am

Doom wrote:Frank:

You've misread it, and had it explained to you many, many, times.

Here, I'll quote the site AGAIN for you:

>>One based on the pre-1990 official methodology for computing the CPI-U, and the other based on the methodology which was employed prior to 1980.<<

"pre-1990 official methodology" refers to the official (i.e., government) methodology for calculating inflation. In other words, using the methods for calculating inflation before the government changed the definition of the word "inflation" in 1990.

One more time: all Shadowstats did was show was inflation would be, IF the government were telling the truth about the effects of government changes in how it changes the calculates inflation. It's what they say on the site, it's what everyone else who reads Shadowstats says it means.

There's no claim that there's "secret" double digit inflation. Show me in that quote where there's a claim of "secret double digit inflation". Provide the evidence that what you say is true. Please.

You are a liar and a fraud. I registered this account solely to put you on ignore, because listening to you was actively making me dumber.

Shadowstats DOES NOT DO THAT THING YOU SAID IT DOES. They do not recalculate the CPI using current data and the old formula. They don't calculate fucking anything at all. They take the current CPI, add an arbitrary constant to it (based on what the government thought changing the formulas might do, thirty years ago), and declare that that's what the CPI would probably look like today under the old formula. It's 100% fucked and super deceptive, much like yourself.

http://azizonomics.com/2013/06/01/the-t ... adowstats/ has a better explanation, with sources and charts everything, for people who want to read more about what a shitheel you are.

Post by **fbmf** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:49 am

Doom wrote:
fbmf wrote:

Careful, Frank, or Doom will PM you insults that he lacks the testicular fortitude to say in e-public.

Game On,
fbmf
Go back to assraping children, you lying pedophile.

Is that sufficient, moron?

[The Great Fence Builder Speaks]
Calling anyone a rapist and/or a pedophile is over the line, even by the standards of TGDMB.
[/The Great Fence Builder Speaks]

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:30 am

fbmf wrote:[The Great Fence Builder Speaks]
Calling anyone a rapist and/or a pedophile is over the line, even by the standards of TGDMB.
[/The Great Fence Builder Speaks]

PL You are on notice baby.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:35 am

Sam: you'll do great here.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:39 am

Hey fbmf, just curious how many threads would you say you have had to close because of me crapping all over the thread? Would you say one in 8500 posts? 2?

Laertes · Post by **Laertes** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:11 am

Welcome to the board, Sam.

Post by **fbmf** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:54 am

Kaelik wrote:Hey fbmf, just curious how many threads would you say you have had to close because of me crapping all over the thread? Would you say one in 8500 posts? 2?

I'm sure the poster accusing you would back up his claim on request.

Game On,
fbmf

TiaC · Post by **TiaC** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:02 am

Well done fbmf, well done.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:17 am

Doom wrote:One more time: all Shadowstats did was show was inflation would be, IF the government were telling the truth about the effects of government changes in how it changes the calculates inflation. It's what they say on the site, it's what everyone else who reads Shadowstats says it means.

If you poke a conspiracy theorist hard enough, they will make falsifiable claims. Doom has just done so, and in so doing has proved himself wrong. Again.

Shadowstats doesn't show what the inflation would be using old methodology, they don't even collect price data! It really is just an assertion that the real inflation is the official numbers plus a large fudge factor. That's really all there is.

Now the source of the fudge factor is kind of interesting in a tragicomic sort of way. See, the way inflation is calculated has evolved over time. Sometimes in little ways, sometimes in bigger ways. And every time an adjustment is considered, the government does some modeling and makes best case/worst case scenarios for how the new system would handle inflation numbers. So what shadowstats does is to find the biggest potential reduction estimate for each change over the last several decades, and then add them together and call that the fudge factor. It's kind of like if you added all the easternmost potentials from the NOAA hurricane predictions and concluded that hurricane Katrina made landfall in Miami.

But the most delicious part of this is that Doom's claims about Shadow stats were disproved the last time he made them. He retreated into his petulant child mode to fling insults from the sidelines when he found that evidence was not on the side of his substantive claims. But now that he has come out with an actual argument that could be true or false - he's still wrong.

-Username17

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:22 am

fbmf wrote:
Kaelik wrote:Hey fbmf, just curious how many threads would you say you have had to close because of me crapping all over the thread? Would you say one in 8500 posts? 2?
I'm sure the poster accusing you would back up his claim on request.

Game On,
fbmf

fbmf, Please apologize for that blatant lie. You could not possibly believe that Doom would ever back up any accusation he has ever made.

Post by **fbmf** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:45 pm

Kaelik wrote:
fbmf wrote:
Kaelik wrote:Hey fbmf, just curious how many threads would you say you have had to close because of me crapping all over the thread? Would you say one in 8500 posts? 2?
I'm sure the poster accusing you would back up his claim on request.

Game On,
fbmf
fbmf, Please apologize for that blatant lie. You could not possibly believe that Doom would ever back up any accusation he has ever made.

I'm sure my old buddy Doom won't let me down, Kaelik.

Game On,
fbmf

Covent · Post by **Covent** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:00 pm

Damn it!

I was supposed to have today off. Got called in and now I missed the magic happening in this thread...

Ah well, at least it is an entertaining read.