Thor Now a "Woman"

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:50 pm

Thor lost his powers because Odin was displeased with him.
He took the hammer and hurled it to earth, where it changed into a stick.
Which Dr.whatshisface found. When he hit the stick on the ground, it turned him into THOR. And when he hit MJOLNIR into the ground, it turned him back into Dr.Cripple. And some time later, both of these personalities were somehow separated and are now living their own lives, if i remember correctly . .

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:56 pm

The new female Thor seems to be an earth woman who proved worthy. Given that the first issue isn't out yet, we of course don't know what's going on exactly.

Chamomile · Post by **Chamomile** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:07 am

I think comics would benefit from more limited-run series. Have the comic run for ~5 years, have an actual arc with an ending, then put the character to rest for at least a few months while the new team cycles in to tell their own reboot. And maybe that reboot starts with a new origin story or maybe they start after the hero is established like Arkham Asylum, but either way it's a new series and the team can feel free to change whatever they like about the character and backstory without having to retcon things piece by piece. Specific events of the old series automatically do not apply because it's a new series.

The walls on this can be kind of fuzzy. You could have a Batman story where in one issue Batman's adventuring with Batgirl, and in the next Barbara is now the wheelchair-bound Oracle, and people will just generally understand that the Killing Joke is supposed to go in the middle and the current team didn't think they could do it as well as the actual Killing Joke. This would be a super-confusing terrible idea back in the 80s, but in 2014 all you need is a relevant link to Wikipedia at the beginning of the first Oracle story.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:16 am

Ok, now maybe we can say it's primarily motivated by a desire to appeal to people who might be called SJW's.

but what is wrong with that? it still leads to more fucking diversity.
I don't care if some offered Marvel $20 trillion to make an old cis het white male hero some manner of minority, it still leads to increased diversity.

Chamomile · Post by **Chamomile** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:21 am

If SJWs end up actually benefiting the causes they claim to fight for, that's a net win. I'll gladly trade increased diversity in major media for making some internet bullies kind of smug.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:31 am

Sidenote: I don't know a good, non-pejorative term for people in favour of race/gender/sex/class equality. I mean, I'd say sane, but technically that's pejorative of people who aren't in favour of those things.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:42 am

Prak_Anima wrote:Sidenote: I don't know a good, non-pejorative term for people in favour of race/gender/sex/class equality. I mean, I'd say sane, but technically that's pejorative of people who aren't in favour of those things.

Who cares? People not in favor of those things need to be spoken of in pejorative.

I was watching a stream, and someone asked if the guy was a feminist, and he answered "why do I have to be a feminist or not, why can't we just treat men and women the same?" That is not a question he would ask if he just referred to all people as either people or misogynists.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:07 am

Well, I mean, given that bigots keep thinking that they're sane and people, it would be handy to have a word other than "people"

Omegonthesane · Post by **Omegonthesane** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:52 am

Prak_Anima wrote:Well, I mean, given that bigots keep thinking that they're sane and people, it would be handy to have a word other than "people"

We do, it's "bigots".

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:04 am

I mean a word for people that bigots won't think includes them. Other way around there.

radthemad4 · Post by **radthemad4** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:31 am

Stahlseele wrote:Thor lost his powers because Odin was displeased with him.
He took the hammer and hurled it to earth, where it changed into a stick.
Which Dr.whatshisface found. When he hit the stick on the ground, it turned him into THOR. And when he hit MJOLNIR into the ground, it turned him back into Dr.Cripple. And some time later, both of these personalities were somehow separated and are now living their own lives, if i remember correctly . .

So the Asgardian named Thor is more or less okay with other people running around with his hammer? That's... pretty nice of him I guess. Or maybe he's just being pragmatic due to knowing that he's not worthy or whatever.

Antonyms for bigot according to thesaurus.com: moderate, humanitarian, liberal, tolerator

I'd just go with 'non-bigot'

Laertes · Post by **Laertes** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:54 am

Prak's got a point: you want a term which can't be coopted by bigots. I know a bunch of actual Humanists who get really angry that misogynists have begun to describe themselves as that.

Mind you, as someone who's both a feminist and an atheist, I end up sitting there embarrassed by the SJW's actions but sort of agreeing with their politics. So I should probably not comment too much on the matter.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:28 pm

The point is that no matter what you call people who are not bigots, bigots will turn in it into a pejorative, and stupid idiots like Laertes will buy it and help them.

You, idiot. Stop talking about how Social Justice Warriors embarrass you. That is complete bullshit made up by bigots. Just like Militant Atheists is a made up term to discredit atheists popularized by conservative Christians trying to create parody. The one and only goal of bigots when it comes to internet conversations is to create three categories instead of two, so that people will feel like they are in the middle, and therefore feel distanced from people who are on their side.

And you are cooperating. You are letting the bigots manipulate you with stupid bullshit into thinking that people who fight bigotry are somehow the other, and going to far, when they aren't going far enough, and you damn well shouldn't be considering them the other.

Laertes · Post by **Laertes** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:31 pm

...yeah, you're right. Also fuck you, but that doesn't make you not right.

hyzmarca · Post by **hyzmarca** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:31 pm

radthemad4 wrote:
Stahlseele wrote:Thor lost his powers because Odin was displeased with him.
He took the hammer and hurled it to earth, where it changed into a stick.
Which Dr.whatshisface found. When he hit the stick on the ground, it turned him into THOR. And when he hit MJOLNIR into the ground, it turned him back into Dr.Cripple. And some time later, both of these personalities were somehow separated and are now living their own lives, if i remember correctly . .
So the Asgardian named Thor is more or less okay with other people running around with his hammer? That's... pretty nice of him I guess. Or maybe he's just being pragmatic due to knowing that he's not worthy or whatever.

A lot of characters have taken up the hammer for a time over the years. There's Eric Masterson, Beta Ray Bill, Dargo Ktor. Generally, alternate Thors get their own hammer after their time wielding Mjolnir is up.

DragonChild · Post by **DragonChild** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:54 pm

Kaelik wrote:The point is that no matter what you call people who are not bigots, bigots will turn in it into a pejorative, and stupid idiots like Laertes will buy it and help them.

You, idiot. Stop talking about how Social Justice Warriors embarrass you. That is complete bullshit made up by bigots. Just like Militant Atheists is a made up term to discredit atheists popularized by conservative Christians trying to create parody. The one and only goal of bigots when it comes to internet conversations is to create three categories instead of two, so that people will feel like they are in the middle, and therefore feel distanced from people who are on their side.

And you are cooperating. You are letting the bigots manipulate you with stupid bullshit into thinking that people who fight bigotry are somehow the other, and going to far, when they aren't going far enough, and you damn well shouldn't be considering them the other.

Thank you.

Remember a lot of "SJW" stuff is things taken out of context, or worse still, trolls pretending to be people they're not. There are some trolls who pretended to be black women on twitter, one of which for OVER A YEAR in order to make black women look bad. Be a skeptic - don't let your intelligence fall aside just so it means you can look down on other people.

It confuses me why everyone always talks about the "SJWs", especially the SJWs on tumblr, when that community literally has a thriving demographic of self-admitted nazis. Also, so often, I have seen people who were just talking about their actual life experiences - "This happened to me today" or "I keep having to suffer through this" - called "SJWs" just because they're not straight white dudes.

Surgo · Post by **Surgo** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:16 pm

Chamomile wrote:I think comics would benefit from more limited-run series. Have the comic run for ~5 years, have an actual arc with an ending, then put the character to rest for at least a few months while the new team cycles in to tell their own reboot. And maybe that reboot starts with a new origin story or maybe they start after the hero is established like Arkham Asylum, but either way it's a new series and the team can feel free to change whatever they like about the character and backstory without having to retcon things piece by piece. Specific events of the old series automatically do not apply because it's a new series.

This would be great but the problem, as always, is the Continuity Grognards who shit all over everything. The only way these have been avoided in the past is by moving to a different medium, like film.

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:33 pm

Because people whose greatest good is "diversity" are tiresome in exactly the same ways Ayn Rand fanaticcs are.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:55 pm

Change for a good reason is, in my eyes, okay . .
Change for changes sake is not a good reason <.<

DSMatticus · Post by **DSMatticus** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:27 pm

No matter what side you're on, someone stupid nominally agrees with you. This is an incontrovertible fact of the universe. You can quibble about how many and to what extent, but someone somewhere who is so incredibly fucking stupid they are a discredit to your cause exists. The SJW crowd isn't imagined and isn't even mostly trolls.

Despite that, they still basically don't matter, because they are a small minority with no influence and their views have no chance of going mainstream. The reason they get such disproportionate attention (and the reason that label has been transformed from a pejorative for that stupid minority into a pejorative for literally anyone who has the audacity to advocate for equality) is because modern American conservatism is actually just tribalism held together by hate and fear. There hasn't been a good faith effort to engage in policy debate for decades, and there isn't ever going to be, because they're a political union of fundamentalists, libertarians, and neoconservatives. The only way to keep the legs on that slimy and schizophrenic centipede moving together is to talk about the enemy, and if your real enemies aren't scary enough, well... that's what strawmen are for.

sarcasmoverdose · Post by **sarcasmoverdose** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:21 am

Prak_Anima wrote:

This is different than Thor, tough. Thor was a man, not a title (even though other characters sometimes picked up the hammer). Captain America is a title, not a single man.

Prak_Anima wrote: but what is wrong with that? it still leads to more fucking diversity.
I don't care if some offered Marvel $20 trillion to make an old cis het white male hero some manner of minority, it still leads to increased diversity.

It's like asking why Ebony magazine doesn't include more white people "for diversity". If you change the race of a character not because it would make for a better or more interesting story or because the fans want it but because "diversity", you're probably going to lose business.

hyzmarca wrote: A lot of characters have taken up the hammer for a time over the years. There's Eric Masterson, Beta Ray Bill, Dargo Ktor. Generally, alternate Thors get their own hammer after their time wielding Mjolnir is up.

They weren't Thor though, they were guys who wielded Thor's hammer.

fectin wrote:Because people whose greatest good is "diversity" are tiresome in exactly the same ways Ayn Rand fanaticcs are.

So much this.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:25 am

sarcasmoverdose wrote:
Prak_Anima wrote: but what is wrong with that? it still leads to more fucking diversity.
I don't care if some offered Marvel $20 trillion to make an old cis het white male hero some manner of minority, it still leads to increased diversity.
It's like asking why Ebony magazine doesn't include more white people "for diversity". If you change the race of a character not because it would make for a better or more interesting story or because the fans want it but because "diversity", you're probably going to lose business.

I have no fucking time for a troll of this magnitude. Thank fbmf for the Ignore list.

erik · Post by **erik** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:26 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternativ ... ns_of_Thor

They wielded the hammer as they were worthy and basically acted as Thor, and often are referred to as either being the new Thor or carrying the mantle of Thor. I have no problem with a woman doing the same and even referring to herself as Thor as she carries Thor's mantle. Iron Man already covered this shit the first page's image macro.

It's not that diversity is the greatest good, it's that the comic industry is totally skewed towards white males and that's a goddamn shame.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:32 am

erik wrote:It's not that diversity is the greatest good, it's that the comic industry is totally skewed towards white males and that's a goddamn shame.

This. Diversity is not the greatest good, but representation in media, specifically, allowing readers of diverse backgrounds to see people like them in the stories they consume, is a minor good, in that it benefits people in a small, but real way, and does not hurt people in anyway.

Saying that Ebony should have white people in it for diversity sake is basically trolling on a high level because media is basically full of rich white people, and Ebony exists to bring diversity to the magazine rack (basically. I plead inefficient wording due to very strong headache)

sarcasmoverdose · Post by **sarcasmoverdose** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:56 am

erik wrote:It's not that diversity is the greatest good, it's that the comic industry is totally skewed towards white males and that's a goddamn shame.

An industry is skewed towards making products their primary demographic of consumer will buy? Why is this a problem?