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Post by Sam »

Ancient History wrote:Sam: So, it's just Betsy, female halfling 1st-level thief?
Yes. Elizabeth "Betsy" Pemberton-Tambling, formerly of the Millfordshire Pemberton-Tamblings. Her mother, Prunella Pemberton-Tambling, was the third daughter of Lord Nigel Pemberton-Tambling, but she married Rupert Birtwistle, of no notable lineage whatsoever.

That marriage could have been smoothed over, but Prunella and Rupert decided that he should present himself as Sir Rupert Birtwistle, of the distant (and fictitious) Blackacre Hall. This lie was not uncovered until Betsy's sixteenth birthday, when her parents confided the truth to her and she immediately revealed their Deception to the world at large, causing the three of them to be disowned by Sir Nigel. Thrown out of her family estate, and no longer on speaking terms with her parents, she makes her own way in the world, though she yet refuses to enter into anything so common as the practice of a trade.
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Post by Ancient History »

Excellent.
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Post by Dean »

I'm reading the 2E rules over today. I'll ask for advice as it will take me a few days to recover rules knowledge I've let atrophy for a decade. Just rolled my first stats on Sirroco's website there. I got 18, 17, 13, 12, 11, 7, which is pretty sweet honestly. I think I'd like to make either a Ranger or a combat Priest of some kind. An Elf Ranger shooting a ton of arrows and dual-wielding swords was the first thing I ever made in this game so that's striking a cord but I'm open to any advice.

Can you suggest the resource books I should look into for Ranger or Priest stuff? Is there anything I should know about how best go full Legolas, filling the air with arrows and blades?
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Post by Ancient History »

Complete Ranger, Complete Priest, and the Master Race's Handbook (Complete Elf) are all good starting points. I think the really complicated dual-wielding stuff is in the Player's Option series...

...and I should make it clear, because there are some incompatible options in Player's Option, if you want something from there we'll put it to a vote of the group as to whether or not to include. That way nobody gets screwed because one person wants to use this set of psionics rules instead of that set.
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Post by Dean »

OK ill read those now. Three questions: Do all bows naturally give you two attacks a round? What is the time required to draw two weapons if you dual wield? Are rangers capable of weapon specialization? Because the answers to some of those will determine if by "Ranger" I meant "Greatsword fighter who owns a bow".
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Post by Ancient History »

Dean wrote:Three questions: Do all bows naturally give you two attacks a round?
All the bows have a rate of fire (ROF) of 2/1, meaning they can let off two shots in one round.
What is the time required to draw two weapons if you dual wield?
I can't find a specific rule for that, so probably add both weapon speeds together when determining initiative.
Are rangers capable of weapon specialization?
No, that's Fighters only.
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Post by Dean »

This has been a fun day of book delving. AD&D is just fucked on a lot of levels, it's really unclear on lots of topics and it reminds me to check things with my DM 2 or 3 times a page on average. It's really bizarre.

It's also been fun running into what I'm certain were likely considered the OP parts of various releases. In my search for a good battle priest or legolas clone I've found the War priest Kit which lets Clerics get Weapon specialization and also Bladesinging and the Archer kit from the Complete Elf book. Bladesinging is just slightly better than not bladesinging so I imagine that got brought up a lot and the Elf Archer kit is kind of bonkers if you combine it with the rest of the archery shenanigans in the book that could probably let a dedicated Archer shoot half a dozen shots off a round.

Alright here we go. I'm deciding right now I'm gonna go for a Legolas clone. This is exciting. I'm gonna need some help rounding him out but here's my first take at him, tell me if he's illegal or missing stuff or whatever.

Atani of the Gladeguard
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Str 19, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 11, Wis 7, Cha 10

HP: 10, AC 0 (-1 from the Rear), Movement 12, Carrying Capacity 485 lbs, Chaotic Good alignment
Saves:
Paralysis/Poison/Death 14
Rod/Staff/Wand 16
Petrification/Polymorph 15
Breath 17
Spell 17
+4 on saving throws against "things which can be dodged", -1 on saving throws against mind influencing magic

Gear: Splint Mail, 2 Longswords, Medium Shield, Custom Compound Shortbow, 90 Arrows, Spear, Dagger, Grappling Hook, 50ft rope, Small tent, 2 Wineskins, Flint&Steel, 5 Flasks of Oil, 10 torches, Lute, Winter blanket, Backpack, 75lb iron ball and chain tied to 50 feet of rope. 3.5 Gold

Proficiencies:
Weapon: Longsword Weapon Specialization, Bow, Two Weapon Fighting, 1 Unused
Non-Weapon:Military history, Fire Building, Fletching, Swimming, Animal Lore, Musical Instrument (Flute)

Attacks:
Longswords: THACO 15, 5/2 attacks for 1d8+9
Shortbow: THACO 14, 2/1 attacks for 1d8+7
Or Shortbow: THACO 15, 3/1 attacks for 1d8+6

Backstory: Atani was born into a common family in an unusually stable Wood Elf settlement. As a child and into adolescence Atani grew up to be a remarkable physical specimen and some stories of his antics with other children have already graduated through retelling into a kind of folklore about the young boy. At the earliest eligible age Atani joined the Gladeguard, a unit of Rangers that defends the Elves home, but hasn't yet done anything but engage in war games and training excersizes with the single exception of a small bugbear skirmish he participated in. Recently he requested of his Glade's Prince a period of leave to explore and train abroad. This was an unusual and unorthodox request which was nevertheless approved by his Lord who sagaciously understood that for all his natural gifts Atani was in many ways still a child, and if wanderlust had him he would be gone soon enough. Better to have him leave with their blessing than as a deserter.
Atani is now on a self described adventure as an explorer and thrill seeker. Looking for new and exciting opportunities to find out more about the world and to become something worth returning home as.
Last edited by Dean on Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Ancient History »

Lessee, Myrmidion kit gives free weapon specialization...yep, character looks fine. THAC0 I think is correct 20 - (1+3+1) = 15 for longswords.

/edit: Although I should note that according to The Complete Fighter's Handbook you can't fight two-handed with two weapons of the same size until/unless you get the Style Specialization proficiency.
Last edited by Ancient History on Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Dean »

That's what that last proficiency was for, to my understanding. I have 4 to start with then a free Weapon specialization from Myrmidon. So that's 1 for Longsword, a Specialization in Longsword for free, 1 for Bows, 1 for Ambidexterity, and 1 for Style Specialization in Two Weapon Fighting. So that would be 4 Weapon Proficiencies spent if I've understood it correctly.
Last edited by Dean on Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Silent Wayfarer »

I'll go with Tim, the Enchanter guy who can't actually qualify for a specialization.

Level 1 Human Wizard

Strength 8
Dex 10
Con 11
Int 17
Wis 9
Cha 11

Alignment: N
Saves:
Paralyze/Poison/Death 14
Rod/Staff/Wand 11
Petrification/Polymorph 13
Breath 15
Spell 12

HP: 1
Base Movement: 12
Proficiencies: Dagger
Gear: Dagger

Spells:

(TBD)
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Post by Dean »

I am already extremely fond of "Tim The Guy", who has 1hp and is basically an egg we need to incubate until he develops the AOE attacks we will desperately need to survive past 4th level. Also I think my guy is done.

Atani of the Gladeguard
Image

Str 19, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 11, Wis 7, Cha 10

HP: 10, AC 0 (-1 from the Rear), Movement 12, Carrying Capacity 485 lbs, Chaotic Good alignment
Saves:
Paralysis/Poison/Death 14
Rod/Staff/Wand 16
Petrification/Polymorph 15
Breath 17
Spell 17
+4 on saving throws against "things which can be dodged", -1 on saving throws against mind influencing magic

Magic Gear: Magic Ring, Magic Helm
Gear: Splint Mail, 3 Longswords, Medium Shield, Custom Compound Shortbow, 79 Arrows, Spear, 2 Daggers, 4 Knives, Grappling Hook, 100ft of rope, Small tent, 2 Wineskins, Flint&Steel, 5 Flasks of Oil, 10 torches, Flute, Winter blanket, Backpack, 75lb iron ball and chain tied to 50 feet of rope. 3.5 Gold

Proficiencies:
Weapon: Longsword Weapon Specialization, Bow, Two Weapon Fighting, 1 Unused
Non-Weapon:Military history, Fire Building, Fletching, Swimming, Animal Lore, Musical Instrument (Flute)

Attacks:
Longswords: THACO 15, 5/2 attacks for 1d8+9
Shortbow: THACO 14, 2/1 attacks for 1d8+7
Or Shortbow: THACO 15, 3/1 attacks for 1d8+6

Backstory: Atani was born into a common family in an unusually stable Wood Elf settlement. As a child and into adolescence Atani grew up to be a remarkable physical specimen and some stories of his antics with other children have already graduated through retelling into a kind of folklore about the young boy. At the earliest eligible age Atani joined the Gladeguard, a unit of Rangers that defends the Elves home, but hasn't yet done anything but engage in war games and training excersizes with the single exception of a small bugbear skirmish he participated in. Recently he requested of his Glade's Prince a period of leave to explore and train abroad. This was an unusual and unorthodox request which was nevertheless approved by his Lord who sagaciously understood that for all his natural gifts Atani was in many ways still a child, and if wanderlust had him he would be gone soon enough. Better to have him leave with their blessing than as a deserter.
Atani is now on a self described adventure as an explorer and thrill seeker. Looking for new and exciting opportunities to find out more about the world and to become something worth returning home as.
Questions for AH: Before I post his backstory I have three questions which I will ask in order of increasing crunchiness. First would you mind if I had Atani be quite young for an elf PC? When his stats rolled up amazing I had the idea of an elf that was a little like Cassius Clay or Bo Jackson. A good natured, smiling, genetic lottery winner who just wants to run, jump, and compete as much as possible. I thought he might be enthusiastic and energetic enough that even by his late 30's/early 40's he's already heading out into the world to see what it's got. Second question: As a Myrmidon whatever gear the military unit his Elven Sanctuary had is half price for him on the start up. If the unit used Longswords or shortbows he can save a couple bucks which would be nice for me so if you think that's reasonable I'll save a little on those. I have no idea what kind of armor elven infantry uses so I wasn't even looking for that but if you have a suggestion I'd wear whatever. Finally Atani is a fantastic Bowyer so I wanted to know if I could have him take a week required to make his own bow either before the game starts or just as it begins. If he makes his own bow and tries to make one of the highest possible quality he will succeed on any roll lower than an 18+, which then lets him add his Strength Bonuses to his personal bow's attack and damage rolls.

Final Note: I think it's telling that I have downloaded both 5E and 2E this week and I am having massively more fun pouring through 2E.
Last edited by Dean on Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:56 pm, edited 12 times in total.
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Post by Ancient History »

That's what that last proficiency was for, to my understanding. I have 4 to start with then a free Weapon specialization from Myrmidon. So that's 1 for Longsword, a Specialization in Longsword for free, 1 for Bows, 1 for Ambidexterity, and 1 for Style Specialization in Two Weapon Fighting. So that would be 4 Weapon Proficiencies spent if I've understood it correctly.
Right, I've got it. Sorry, some of the Complete Fighter bit was confusing.
Questions for AH: Before I post his backstory I have three questions which I will ask in order of increasing crunchiness. First would you mind if I had Atani be quite young for an elf PC? When his stats rolled up amazing I had the idea of an elf that was a little like Cassius Clay or Bo Jackson. A good natured, smiling, genetic lottery winner who just wants to run, jump, and compete as much as possible. I thought he might be enthusiastic and energetic enough that even by his late 30's/early 40's he's already heading out into the world to see what it's got.
Technically, the base age of an elf character is 100 + 5d4 (see Table 11 in the PHB). However, I have no issues with your character being younger.
Second question: As a Myrmidon whatever gear the military unit his Elven Sanctuary had is half price for him on the start up. If the unit used Longswords or shortbows he can save a couple bucks which would be nice for me so if you think that's reasonable I'll save a little on those. I have no idea what kind of armor elven infantry uses so I wasn't even looking for that but if you have a suggestion I'd wear whatever.
If you write up the backstory to your Elven Sanctuary's infantry, you can decide on their typical equipment.
Finally Atani is a fantastic Bowyer so I wanted to know if I could have him take a week required to make his own bow either before the game starts or just as it begins. If he makes his own bow and tries to make one of the highest possible quality he will succeed on any roll lower than an 18+, which then lets him add his Strength Bonuses to his personal bow's attack and damage rolls.
Sure.
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Post by Darth Rabbitt »

Still not sure if I'll be able to commit to playing this game, but I rolled for stats and will ask questions in case I end up joining. (If anyone else wants to reserve, let them take my slot.)

I got 15, 17, 16, 13, 14, 9 (link here)

Are demihuman and/or humanoid clerics limited to racial gods? And do the various sub races of elves all have the same class restrictions/level limits as vanilla elves? The Master Race's Handbook (a book I know is in play already, and one I'm considering using material from) is very vague on that.
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Post by Ancient History »

Are demihuman and/or humanoid clerics limited to racial gods?
No. Although if you're a half-orc praying to Blibdoolpoolp, I'm going to enjoy reading your backstory to explain that.
And do the various sub races of elves all have the same class restrictions/level limits as vanilla elves? The Master Race's Handbook (a book I know is in play already, and one I'm considering using material from) is very vague on that.
Unless you find a rule or table that suggests otherwise, all elf subspecies have the same level limits and class restrictions. Have fun playing a Drow Minstrel, if that's your thing.
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Post by Dean »

I dont know the crypts of chaos module at all and I dont want to look it up lest I ruin something. Is it important that our stories end up with us in some situation or area? And are there any rules or subsystems you would like to tell us are in the game or not? It seems smart to ask for a game with 2 parry systems, 3 skill systems, 2 armor systems, and so on. Obviously a lot of it is just whatever someone asks for or wants but I thought I'd ask ahead of time for what -you- want.

Speaking of Parrying, how does it work? In various places it talks about it taking away one attack if you want to parry and other places it says it takes all of your attacks.
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Post by Ancient History »

Dean wrote:I dont know the crypts of chaos module at all and I dont want to look it up lest I ruin something.
Crypts of Chaos was a PbP game I ran here. It was very much like this, except D&D 3.+ instead of AD&D2.+, and of course it was a much larger and longer game than I project this one to be. Go ahead and look it up if you like, there won't be any spoilers.
Is it important that our stories end up with us in some situation or area?
Nah, I'll wrangle it.
And are there any rules or subsystems you would like to tell us are in the game or not?
Where there is an option, assume we're not using the option until players decide they want to use it. Once the PCs decide they want the optional rule in the game, it also becomes fair play for the DM. So, if you want to use the parry optional rule, that's fine, but don't be surprised if some of the monsters start trying to parry too...
It seems smart to ask for a game with 2 parry systems, 3 skill systems, 2 armor systems, and so on. Obviously a lot of it is just whatever someone asks for or wants but I thought I'd ask ahead of time for what -you- want.
I want players to have fun. I like to see what they come up with.
Speaking of Parrying, how does it work? In various places it talks about it taking away one attack if you want to parry and other places it says it takes all of your attacks.
The optional rule in the DMG and PHB says you chose how many of your attacks you want to use as parries. I believe the same applies for the Parry maneuver in Complete Fighter.
Last edited by Ancient History on Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Dean »

Ancient History wrote:The optional rule in the DMG and PHB says you chose how many of your attacks you want to use as parries. I believe the same applies for the Parry maneuver in Complete Fighter.
My PHB and DMG say this: "In order to make himself harder to hit, a character can parry--forfeit all actions for the round--he can't attack, move, or cast spells. This frees the character to concentrate on defense. At this poinst, all characters but warriors gain an AC bonus equal to half their level. A warrior gets a bonus equal to half his level plus one."

What does yours say?
Last edited by Dean on Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Darth Rabbitt »

Damnit AH, now I have an idea for a Drow Cleric of Blibdoolpoolp (if it's rules-legal, and you're OK with it. If not I have a few other character concepts.) I actually had the idea of "male drow cleric of [some deity] who goes adventuring because his role is unacceptable in proper Drow society" in my head for a while but this idea basically sealed the deal for me.

[name TBD, it's a habit of mine to not name characters until I'm sure I'm playing them] is a male Drow who was upset by his ineligibility to become a priest of Lolth (since that is very much Girls Only), and so converted to the first non-Drow deity he found (since Kuo-Toa are an Underdark race that allow Drow into their cities to trade, it is likely that would be the first non-hostile settlement he found.) Why the Sea Mother answers his prayers is something only she knows, although it may be to spite the Drow, or just because she finds this guy amusing. He goes adventuring because the Kuo-Toa hate him (since the Kuo-Toa's non-aggression pact with the Drow is shaky at best) too much to let him worship alongside them, and because he just wants to experience new things. So him being out and about is a win-win for both parties.

Personalty-wise, he's actually really cheerful, despite worshiping a goddess that is all about hating the surface races. Probably because he is elated that he found a goddess who answers his prayers, and he grew up in a society who hates the surface world anyways so it's not like that'd actually make him any less cheerful. He also probably calls himself a priestess, despite otherwise using male pronouns and identifying as male, because I imagine the Drow have no word for priest since that caste is all-female. Any other personality quirks will be figured out later.

Problem is I have no fucking clue what the rules for the servants of the Sea Mother are, and also Dean's character might be obligated to kill me on sight, since he's playing a non-Drow Elf.
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Post by Hicks »

Hey, may I be a Human PHB cleric... of Nerull? STR 13, DEX 16, CON 16, INT 12, WIS 14, CHA 5

Xaxus is a neutral evil murder hobo, wandering the lands in his rust red robes and murdering those who deserve it in the name of the god of murder. It's not like the god of murder doesn't want murder to happen, and Xaxus has dedicated his life to send as many evil creatures and people to their eternal reward, to be judged by the evil gods they support, as fast as he can scythe through them.

As a cleric, Xaxus has major access to the All, Astral, Charm, Combat, Creation, Divination, Guardian, Healing, Necromantic, Protection, Summoning, and Sun sphere, as well as minor access to the Elemental sphere.

As an evil cleric, Xaxus commands undead instead of turning them.

I would give up the ability to use a shield for the ability to select Scythes (1d6+1 or 1d8 damage, P/S type, speed 8, 8lbs, 5gp; out of the Complete Priest's Handbook) as a weapon proficiency, if allowed.
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Post by Hicks »

On dual wielding, the PHB says that only Warriors and Rogues can fight with two weapons, and that the off-hand weapon must be smaller in size and weight than the primary hand's weapon.

The primary hand suffers a -2 to attack rolls, and the off hand suffers a -4 to attack rolls. The reaction modifier of your dexterity score is added to both those modifiers and can reduce the magnitude of those penalties up to +0 (it never provides you a bonus on attack rolls), but low dexterity score can make those penalties even worse. Rangers can tell these penalties to fuck off, and can ignore them for a cool +0/+0 to attack with their primary and off-hand weapon.

While wielding two weapons, you get a single additional attack with your off-hand weapon each round.

The complete book of fighters introduced fighting style specialization, and you can spend a weapon proficiency to specialize in two weapon fighting to lessen the penalties for fighting with two weapons, this reduces the penalties to +0 with your primary hand and -2 with your off hand attack rolls, AND you can use same size weapons in both hands (such as two long swords at the same time).

Should you specialize in fighting with two weapons, you do not need take ambidexterity (also in the complete fighter) because your reaction modifier from your dexterity score is high enough to offset the penalties of two weapon fighting. Spend the proficiency on a weapon group or specialization or something.
Last edited by Hicks on Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Sirocco »

AH, are we letting evil aligned characters in the party? If so, I'll need to change my character because I don't think my pally will be able to play well with them...
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Post by Dean »

I imagine my guy's in a college experimentation sort of phase. Hanging out with some Drow seems like the sort of risque behavior that mom and dad would frown on, meaning I imagine he'll be tentatively into it as long as you aren't talking about vengeance on the surface elves all the time.

The bigger problem might be if Sirocco rolling a Pally and Hicks rolling a Cleric of Nerull. Our adventuring party might not see the second room before it turns into one of those looney tune fighting dust clouds. Still I'm excited for it.

Edit: Smart catch on the Profiency Hicks, I didn't see that. Unless I find something smart to use it on I actually think I might hold onto that proficiency and start learning Bladesinging at level 3. That will be nice both because it will give me something to look forward to before level 6 and because it will give me an alternate defensive style to use when we're backed up.
To Sirocco: Whatever you do something melee focused seems smart with your stats, our group is extremely flimsy and having someone else who can tank will massively increase our survivability I think.
Last edited by Dean on Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Hicks »

Xaxus is a port of a 3e character where TN clerics can command undead, and was originally TN. 2e is weird in that the Death clerics out of the complete priest's handbook can totally command undead (which is restricted to evil clerics) but cannot wear armor or use shields. Fuck that. I am not opposed to being TN, or to having my armor be lead lined. I do not wish to disrupt play or create party conflict, and would never have an evil character work against the party's goals; to me, an evil character is willing to use evil means to accomplish party goals, but is not restricted to only and always use evil to solve all problems.
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Post by Ancient History »

Dean wrote:
Ancient History wrote:The optional rule in the DMG and PHB says you chose how many of your attacks you want to use as parries. I believe the same applies for the Parry maneuver in Complete Fighter.
My PHB and DMG say this: "In order to make himself harder to hit, a character can parry--forfeit all actions for the round--he can't attack, move, or cast spells. This frees the character to concentrate on defense. At this poinst, all characters but warriors gain an AC bonus equal to half their level. A warrior gets a bonus equal to half his level plus one."

What does yours say?
Mine says "Bobby needs to sleep and double-check before trying to read the rules late at night." I believe you're correct. Silly me.
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Post by Ancient History »

Darth Rabbitt wrote:Damnit AH, now I have an idea for a Drow Cleric of Blibdoolpoolp (if it's rules-legal, and you're OK with it. If not I have a few other character concepts.)
That's fine by me.
Problem is I have no fucking clue what the rules for the servants of the Sea Mother are, and also Dean's character might be obligated to kill me on sight, since he's playing a non-Drow Elf.
I think there's something in Monster Mythologies.
Sirocco wrote:AH, are we letting evil aligned characters in the party? If so, I'll need to change my character because I don't think my pally will be able to play well with them...
Just a point for everyone here, I don't expect you to wear big flashing signs advertizing your alignment (well, except maybe the paladin) or class. So I have no problem with mixed-alignment parties. Interparty conflict makes life exciting!
Hicks wrote:Hey, may I be a Human PHB cleric... of Nerull?
Sure.
I would give up the ability to use a shield for the ability to select Scythes (1d6+1 or 1d8 damage, P/S type, speed 8, 8lbs, 5gp; out of the Complete Priest's Handbook) as a weapon proficiency, if allowed.
Priests start out with 2 weapon proficiencies according to the PHB. Spend one on Scythes and you're golden.
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