Pathfinder Is Still Bad

[RobbyPants]

The catch is that maneuvers have been written in a way that lets casters dip into them for more power too.

Why am I not surprised. I guess you can't have a caster edition if you give the non-casters things the casters can't get.

[AcidBlades]

I have to ask, what would you rank the general utility of each pathfinder race? Going from 1-5 (1 being awful, 5 being amazing) I personally think, that they did races in an utterly awful way. It's a Halfling Wizard wouldn't be that uncommon in 3.5, but in 3.PF, that shit is just straight up optimal. I'm not going to pretend that I don't have biases, but I will at least try to put a more "objective" response to the races within like a 1 point category. I'm also not really going to take Race Bonuses into consideration, because I'd rather not deal with that anyways.

The most successful races, genetically speaking:

Humans: I think that it's sort of impossible for humans to ever become lower than 4. Particularly in the low-level games that people seem to love to play. That extra feat, means that you are going to get your build online faster, and the extra piddly bonuses that you get from other races makes it hard to ever not use a human. Hell in 3.5, I'd probably pick Human, even if LA didn't apply up to the 2nd LA. Where you can get Drow without paying any drawback. Especially if Races of War is being run. It's hard to justify not being human. In the games that I've played, I've never really had that many skill checks thrown at me. But I guess tossing the extra skills into a craft skill wouldn't be awful.

Elves: 2. I frankly have no real clue, as to how I'd rank the Dex-Con loss. The piddly bonuses are a bit meatier than normal, but you simply don't play an elf for anything that isn't a wizard. To make me care about this race, I'd slap a +2 to Charisma. If only to empathize how ethereal and sexy they are, and it's a stat that nobody cares about anyways.

Dwarves: 4. Most people use Dwarves a bashy class. I personally prefer to play as a Dwarf Wizard, and the way that Pathfinder's standard PB system works, seriously screws that from ever becoming optimal. Still, a Dwarf Cleric is a cliche that exist for a reason. They more-or-less have the best piddly bonuses IMO too. IMO, I'd give Dwarves -2 DEX and +2 INT to empathize their creative genius, and technological superiority and how clumsy they can be. Stat standardization really sucks.

Half Elf: 3. They are utterly standard, vanilla and boring. They are better than the utter shit that is their 3.5 counterparts, but I still see no reason to ever play these fuckers, unless you are rolling with some sort of class that doesn't give you marital weapon prof.

Half Orc: More or less the same synopsis that I'd give the half-elf. Though personally speaking I'd rather fuck with the Half-Orc, due to it just being more exotic than a "slighly more magical white person" that the Half-Elf is. The Scarred Mask Witch is also interesting. Good Gish material, though I've never really fucked with the Witch class at any level, so eh.

Halfings: Man these guys got the short end of the stick. I'd easily rank them around 3-4, but now I'd have to pull down that rank, simply due to the fact that they get a stat bonus to typical dump stat, and how CHA builds that are worth caring about, also tend to want to have some sort of competent STR to it. I don't give a shit about what piddly bonuses they get.

Gnomes: 1. Damn did Pathfinder not handle the small fuckers well. I'd say that -2 STR and +2 CON is queer enough for me to look at them interestingly, and they were good casters in 3.5, but they got fucked over more than halfings. At least you could make a competent Halfling Wizards. Due to how little skill points you need, even a Gnome rogue wouldn't get any sort of traction going on. I see no reason to ever play a Gnome. Nobody plays gnomes in pathfinder. Gnomes be a shit.

Queer flavors of Ice cream. Away from the Vanilla, Chocolates and Strawberries.

Aasimar: 3-4. This is a sexy race that gets good Stat bonuses, resistances that I might care about at low levels and it appeal with it's variants makes me up the score. Maybe some people don't like, and the fact that it just ups Wisdom and Charisma might not be very appealing. Still I like it, for a pathfinder and 3.5 race. If LA isn't an issue, then I'd consider making an Aasimar (whatever).

Catfolk: 2-3. Pathfinder really has the itchy pussy for that +2 DEX races don't they? You'll be seeing a lot of them around, and the lack of variety in stats in pathfinder is annoying. Cat's Luck gives you a reroll of the least importance save, but it's still "Okay" everything else is not something I care about. They get pounce with a 1d4 weapon. If that makes you wet, then go for it. I frankly don't give a shit.

Dhamphir: 1-2. Mediocre +2 Dex -2 Con race. It has abilities that I don't care about, healing magic hurts you. Vetali-Born is pretty oh-kay, Morai-Born is the absolute worst race at +2 STR/CHA -2 CON, and Nosferatu-Born is a close second unless you're using odd-as-fuck dice rolls or using non-cumulative point buy. Jiang-Shi-Born is however, one of my personal favorite races, if only because +2 STR/INT and -2 DEX being the most unique stat total that you could get, and the fact that you get to RP as the best girl from the Dark Stalkers games. Not optimal, but if that race wants me to basket-weave so that I get to play 'em. I'll actually take up the offer. Erase as a spell-like ability is also the most interesting SPL this race gets, and the sonic attacks don't get up much compared to the other weaknesses.

Drow: 2. Drows are a shit. Unless you want to dick around with poison, then go away. Elves are better in every conceivable way, and those aren't even good in the first place.

Fetchling: 2-3. They have the same stats as Cat-folk, but it's less interesting in that you're just a Hollow-White human instead of Furry bait. Disguise self is an interesting SPL, so at least they have that going for 'em.

Goblin: 2-3. I don't know, I find them more obnoxious than anything. Whatever. They throw bombs, as Alchemist is the only class that's worth a shit with these guys.

Hobgoblin: 2. Did you know that delectable treat that sits right on the edge of +1 LA and 0 LA borderline? Yeah now that treat is little more than dog-shit, due to the fact that everyone else got a boost, and these guys just got decent physical stats. Being a caster (the only thing worth playing), bones them hard. In 3.5, these are a worthy addition to the LA 0 if that's houseruled. They are a sexy, sexy race, but I just can't help but beat these poor shadows of what was once a beautiful item that you could only window-shop.

Ifrit: 2. You are a fire-dude, or specifically a Cat-folk who is on fire statistically speaking. Don't know why they didn't give 'em the Aasimar treatment and just give 'em +2 DEX and +2 CHA or something. Nobody cares about this stupid race.

Kobold: 1-2. A gimmick race. If I was a DM, I'd just ban all use of this race, because I know the toon is going to be played like a shitty rehash of a shitty joke from a mediocre PC-game. You play this game to kill these fuckers at low levels, and they are more boring than Goblins. I'd prefer it if they were dogs and actually had stats worth caring about. Cutebolds would be something people would want to actually play.

Orc: 2. completely unimaginative. A bonus to the 2nd worth stat, and maluses to the 2 best stats. Any class worth playing wouldn't benefit from having these fuckers. Any sort of interpretation that strays from the norm, would get you hounded by grognards who hate change, and Orc-fanboys really pound your asshole raw a lot harder than if you would even change the Dwarf or Elf.

Oread: 3. You are more or less a cleric, with a terrible SPL. I don't care that much about DEX, so it's pretty okay. Boring, but okay.

Ratfolk: 3. Congratulations, you actually made a small-race who'd want to be a wizard or alchemist. These guys are solid, with a stupid offensive ability that doesn't really make being a Rogue in this game worth it. I like rats as animals, but it isn't that interesting of a race. Appropriate though.

Sylph: 2. You are a wizard with a ring of Feather-fall that only works 1/day. Next.

Tengu: 2-3. Birds are awesome, but -2 Con and +2 WIS don't clash well for me. If only they could fly. Then they'd actually be rather unique, and fitting for a bird race. I frankly don't see the appeal of playing a non-flightless bird-man that isn't based off a Flamingo or Ostrich. Ostrich people would certainly be queer though.

Tiefling: 4. Hurray! I am a complete and utter asshole, and there are people who think Tieflings are boring as fuck. I don't care if they are basically demon-humans. Those have always been rather awesome anyways. Devil-man is top quality manga, and getting claws or a set of teeth to trade in their shitty SPL is sexy to me. So you can go about ripping and tearing like a feral psychopath that you know yourself to be. It kind of sucks that you have to pay a feat to get to the variants, but most people I run with, don't really make me take it. Also a malus to a dump stat. That's hot. As specific as that could be, Tiefling just got a lot of appeal, unless you have shit-tastes. The best "Human + something else" race.

Back-Deal Ice cream from a shady dealer.

Changeling: 1-2. I just don't see the appeal. -2 CON for a good stat and a shit one is not a good trade. Also they get piddly bonuses that nobody cares about.

Duergar: 4. Who knew that going bald would make a Dwarf more dwarfy? In exchange for a dumping an already awful stat to the ground, you get to GET HUGE and turn invisible as if you are a caster who never multi-classes. Essentially you are a cleric who gets 2 more spells. This is rather awesome. You lose Warhammers, Battle Axes for your cleric, but I think that goes well with it. You can trade the better Duergar resistances for 'em. As an alternative race trait.

Gillman: 2. These guys are pretty okay, but the fact that you can't RP as Frog from Chrono Trigger and make it work competently makes me a sad-sad manchild.

Kitsune: 2-3. You are a Sorcerer who can be a mediocre spy (due to only having 2 "normal" forms). Unless you are a furry, then I see no reason to play these guys.

Merfolk: 3-4. These fuckers are weird. You are basically a considerably slower, sexier hobgoblin. You will pick up Strong Tail. Congratulations, you can't be tripped. Also you are a Sorcerer. Though really any class works "Okay" with these guys. I just like 'em for some reason.

The other races: I can't help but not, care about the other races. It's just so boring. Nagaji are a shit. Samsaran is something I don't really get, and is stupid lore-wise. Strix got that fly speed, so they are pretty nice at low levels. Suli is a shit, Svirfneblin are frankly over-rated (I laughed whenever someone complained that they were "overpowered") Vanara is "ohkay" monkey-people. Vishkanya are cat-folk who aren't cats. Wayangs are a decent, yet inferior Tiefling due to it giving a malus to Wis instead of CHA.


TL'DR: Play a Human, Dwarf, Tiefling, Aasimar, Druegar. Merfolk, Half-Orcs and Half-Elves are decent for a different flavor.

Also I'm a moron, so I probably missed some arcane combinations that makes a shitty race, not shitty in that one instance. Really though I just want to see what you fuckers think of the races, or if I put too much time on a stupid topic.

Feel free to disregard my opinion.

[Insomniac]

some of the new races, like Skinshifter, work very well,as Alchemists Barbarians, Clerics and the like.

Half elves get shit on for no real reason, a legacy from 3.0/3.5 where you would never play them.

You can be an Ancestral Arms one and get sleep immunity, EWP, +2 against enchantments, lowlight vision and +2 to perception. or you could trade in the Skill Focus for +2 to Will saves. It ain't optimal but you could still be a strong martial or caster as one, I think, especially with the freebie +2 to a stat and no racial drawbacks. if you ever want to multiclassing, Multi-talented is on the table too, though people rarely multiclass in the system.

half orcs are kind of the same way, there are some nice things like Toothy and Sacred Tattoos if you dumpster dive.

[RelentlessImp]

So Pathfinder online (the mmo) was released almost a week ago. I don't think anybody noticed, though.
But at least check out the video they include on their blog. The lich animations look like someone's first attempt at flash

I'm reading the "manual". Here's some choice quotes.

When you die, each item in your inventory has a 25% chance to be destroyed. Whatever remains will be placed in a “husk” which can be looted by any player one item at a time or recovered in one action by its character.
Coin which you have in your inventory is subject to this rule. Abadar credit (bank credit) is not. Visit Banks often to deposit your coin!

Translation: Somebody really liked the Rallos Zek server in EverQuest, but felt it wasn't punishing enough.

You can only have 3 characters per account. If you decide to delete a character it takes 24 hours for the deletion to become permanent and for that slot to be recycled. Be careful about making characters just to see what they look like.

Translation: Hey, you know that thing people do when starting an MMO, trying out various race/class combos til they find something they like the aesthetic of? Fuck those people.

Do not train Rank 2 of an attack, cantrip, orison, or armor Feat until you have acquired at least +1 or better gear matching that Feat. You will get no mechanical benefit until your Feat ranks activate Keywords on your gear. (See more in the Activating Keywords section)

Translation: We're secretly 4rrys at heart.

There are no NPC vendors. You should sell all starter gear you don’t need on the Auction House in your starter Settlement, and you should buy starter gear you do need on that Auction House. Selling your unwanted gear and buying the gear you do want will jump-start the economy and make it much easier for new characters to get correctly equipped."

Translation: We don't want this to look anything like a Pathfinder game you might expect to sit down and play. We want to make it as irritating as fucking possible to get started if you happen to start out later.

Crowning quote right here, though:

Pathfinder Online is a game that is being developed in a unique and exciting new process.

Most MMOs take 5 years or more to make and when they’re released virtually all the core game mechanics are set in stone. Graphics and the UI are polished. Discovery of how the game works through tutorials and help systems are robust.

Pathfinder Online is being released in its 2nd year of development, when many systems are only preliminarily implemented. You’re seeing a game in a state of development that most players have never experienced.

The idea of a “Minimum Viable Product” is to do just enough development work to create a foundation of basic functionality that we can put into service and begin generating input from actual users.

The game has now reached that state. Early Enrollment marks the start of persistent gaming in Pathfinder Online – there will be no character resets or database wipes from this point forward.

That means that you can give real, meaningful feedback on how the game will be developed.

We call that process Crowdforging. We think that the people who will play Pathfinder Online as we begin Early Enrollment are the kind of people who love the idea of helping to make an MMO.

Yes, it’s a little rough around the edges. But the trade-off of being a part of fundamentally defining how the game will work is worth it!

This game is constantly evolving and improving. We update everything in a process of continuous incremental improvement based on the feedback we get from the community.

Tl;dr: Hey guys, they bought the beta test party line once, I bet we can make them believe it again.

Translation: We want to fuck you in the ass by making you pay for this game while it's in development. Hey, AAA titles do it, why not us, right? And you better believe this game won't be improved whatsoever where it's mechanically found lacking because we're dumbasses who have no idea what the fuck we're doing.

Nothing about this is on the level.

Edit: You can read the batshit insanity for yourself here. I'll keep quoting some of the more outlandish shit.

Edit 2: Calling it now. The MMO will "release" 3 years down the line with virtually none of the core systems changed.

[RelentlessImp]

Races in Pathfinder Online
The 3 races available: Humans, Elves, and Dwarves, have different starting bonuses. All three races get some benefits to various skills related to crafting and harvesting. Dwarves get bonuses to Heavy Melee attacks, and get a bonus when making Divine attacks. Elves get bonuses for Light Melee attacks, ranged attacks, and Arcane attacks. Humans get a smaller attack bonus than Dwarves or Elves but they get it to all attacks.

I don't know, I'm seeing 4e Keywords and thinking there is no way in hell is this game ever going to live up to the name they've put on the game.

Physical Appearance
The choices you make about your gender or the way your character looks have no mechanical effects.

Except if you get it in game and decide you don't like it you've gotta wait til 9am EST to remake the character.


This is the actual image quality in the PDF. I'm sorry-not-sorry. Looks like Crafting is giant chunks of downtime. 6.7 minutes for what looks like a 40 arrows. Cut down from 33.3 minutes.

Currently all ranged attacks including the casting of cantrips or orisons “root” the character. The character has to remain stationary during the attack.

Hey, 'cause this is still a thing. As shitty as Vanguard: Saga of Heroes was, casters being able to move during casting was a good thing that even fucking Blizzard, God-Kings of MMOs has adopted lately into WoW, starting with everything Hunters do and ending with certain spells being able to be cast on the move. But sure, let's reinvent the fucking wheel in a market that is predicated upon iterative development.

Also being in melee as ranged means you take extra damage if you're smacked around. Because fuck you.

The biggest difference between the two kinds of attacks is that ranged attacks usually put the “Attack of Opportunity” condition on your character, which means that some melee attacks made against your character will do extra damage. Generally, a character firing a bow standing next to a monster using a sword will take damage faster than the same character using a sword.

Ammunition and Charges
Currently not implemented but planned for inclusion soon. For now, fire at will!

Reinventing the wheel, not learning from the mistakes of giants, standing on the ass of giants to pee instead of their shoulders, etc., etc. Moving on.

Arcane Spell Penalties
With Early Enrollment v7 we have introduced Arcane Spell penalties. This system is similar to the tabletop RPG mechanic. If you wear armor other than clothing your arcane effects (from cantrips or spells) will have a reduced effectiveness. Wearing heavy metal armor reduces Arcane effects to almost nothing.

Hey look, it's the fucking Elder Scrolls Online treatment of ASF. Because fuck you.

Another note on dying:

Durability
All the gear you had equipped will reappear with your character and it will take a point of durability damage. When your gear reaches 0 durability it is destroyed. Currently there is no way to repair damaged items.

Because fuck you. Why don't they just fucking implement permadeath? That's clearly what they fucking want.

PvP
Player vs. Player conflict is at the heart of Pathfinder Online. As you play you’ll find that sometimes other characters will attack and try to defeat your character.
Characters can be flagged for unprovoked PvP. If you hit an unflagged target once your character will get the Attacker flag which lasts for 1 minute. If you hit an unflagged target twice, your character will get the Aggressor flag, which lasts as long as your character is in combat plus
30 seconds.
If you attacked a character without a flag and that character dies before completely healing your character will lose Reputation. The higher the Reputation of the target, the bigger the Reputation
penalty. If your character’s Reputation drops below -2,500 the Thornguard will attack you on sight and Crafting facilities and Feat Trainers everywhere but Rotter’s Hole will be closed to your character. Like XP, your character’s Reputation regenerates at 30 points per hour in realtime.

Hey look, the exact wrong way to handle pvp by forcing people to opt-in with fucking griefers who probably don't give a shit about the penalties. There was another MMO that came out recently that treated PvP penalties similarly to this, what was it? Oh yeah, ArcheAge. How much griefing exists in that game? ALL OF IT. Except they aren't stupid enough to allow griefers to attack people not flagged.

FFXIV-style Events are in called Escalations. So they clearly understood iterative design. Or are just ripping shit off.

Wands, Staves & Foci
Wizards use Wands and Staves and Clerics use Foci. They
work just like swords and bows do. You equip them by dragging them from your Inventory to the Paper Doll, making them the active weapon, and then you slot their Feats into the Action Bar. You learn cantrips for Wizards, orisons for Clerics from Trainers. Actual Wizard and Cleric Spells are cast using Implements (Spellbooks and Holy Symbols) and are learned from inventory items.

Implements come in four flavors, one for each of the four implemented Roles. Arcane Spellbooks, Divine Holy Symbols, Rogue Kits and Fighter Trophy Charms.

Why do they even call this Pathfinder Online? This is 4e all fucking over.

One last thing:

Priorities: Functions over Discovery
In keeping with the MVP philosophy our team has prioritized building functionality over making those functions discoverable in game. You will need to consult various out-of-game materials including message board forums, wikis, and various pieces of written documentation to become fully informed on how all the game systems work and interrelate.

The User Interface (UI) has been implemented at an MVP level as well. It is functional but does not provide much contextual information yet.

Based on your feedback and the Crowdforging process this will incrementally change over time as we move toward a more polished and useful UI. Your feedback on these topics will be crucial to our success in improving this aspect of the game and we welcome it!

I love Function over Form, but you still need Form at some point before releasing it to the end user, you cockbags. If you tried to release this to an end user in ANY OTHER FUCKING ENVIRONMENT and told them they had to read a forum instead of, I don't know, the FUCKING MANUAL or have it baked into the end-user interface, you would get fucking laughed at or FUCKING FIRED. I don't care this is in your so-called "beta" or "crowdforging" state, this is fucking unprofessional as fuck.

[AcidBlades]

The funny thing is that channers will eat that sort of thing up. Those guys really love to kick their players in the balls, and will bitch if you even do anything remotely optimal.

[Night Goat]

I have to ask, what would you rank the general utility of each pathfinder race?

I agree with you on most of them. I'm only going to go into the core races, not the numerous planetouched and furries that you can only play in PFS if you sucked someone's dick at a convention.

Humans - 5. The extra feat and skill points are nice, but there's an alternate racial trait, Dual Talented, that lets you trade those for a +2 to another stat. This makes them the only choice for characters with MAD.

Dwarf -3. Decent choice for WIS casters, if you're not planning to do much fighting. If you do, you're better off choosing something with a bonus to STR or DEX.

Elves - 4. Wizards get 2 more hp per level than they did in 3.5, so trading CON for DEX and INT isn't a terrible choice. You also get a bonus to spell penetration that stacks with feats.

Half-elves - 2. You trade the human's bonus feat and skill points for a shitty skill focus feat. I could only see playing this if you were a non-INT caster who wanted an elf-only archetype.

Half-orcs - 4. Orc Ferocity and some decent weapon proficiencies make these decent melee clerics. RE: the Scarred Witch Doctor archetype: if you're playing a witch and this archetype is allowed, you will take it. You use CON instead of INT for casting, so you'll max it out and never die.

Gnomes and Halflings - 1. Halfling rogues and gnome illusionists are iconic concepts that you won't play because rogues are a joke and gnomes don't get a bonus to INT. I have seen people play these, but they're the "roleplaying not rollplaying" types who just show up to waste everyone's time.

[Axebird]

Wizards get one more hitpoint per level. They get another 2 at first level.

d4 -> 2.5 hp/level
d6 -> 3.5 hp/level

On the topic of Pathfinder Online, I tried it for shits and giggles and could only force myself to play for about half an hour. The whole thing is a huge unplayable mess, and despite being crazy ugly and running on Unity it's also a huge resource hog even on their minimum settings (they only let you use presets instead of giving you an actual graphics menu).

I think the best part of the whole fiasco is that to train the higher ranks of 'feats' you need to be part of a settlement that's winning their land capture PvP thing, and they shut off if your settlement isn't winning. So there's both a snowballing mechanic in place where as soon as one group starts dominating they have a hilarious advantage on everyone else, and you are basically forced to play PvP or else be awful and weak (even if you were strong before, you will actively lose power). So that's fun.

[Night Goat]

There's also the +1 hp from favored class bonus.

[Orca]

Most PF races have their own niche, however tiny. Gnomes make the best heavens oracles/veiled illusionists, provided you're OK with spamming uber-color spray. Wayangs are small and don't have a strength penalty - which makes for excellent mounted combatants with go-anywhere mounts. Halflings get access to the risky striker feat which can be another means to the same end. Half-elves have several little niches (alchemists doing battlefield control, familiar-free witches, anyone who wants to invest in eldritch heritage, paragon surge use) besides the ersatz-elf.

Sylphs and kobolds are generally bad ideas, true.

[Antariuk]

Half-Orcs in Pathfinder are just awesome because they get useful alternate racial traits and also some very cool racial feats for fighting character concepts. I think they blow Half-Elves out of the water.

[nockermensch]

So is the Pathfinder MMO going for the nostalgia of old people who played MUDs? Because when I read about their exciting features I keep getting flashbacks from the mid 90s when I played Circle or Elite MUDs at the Uni labs. You know, back when "CR" meant "Corpse Rescue": the act of running back to where you died to recover your items from your cadaver.

Also, the prison yard simulator: Join a gang guild and live in permanent fear of being singled out and stabbed stabbed.

[RelentlessImp]

I think they're going for the "old school EverQuest" feel that you can get for free by playing P1999 these days, with a few "modern updates" that aren't very modern at all.

That does bring to mind the classic song of Has Anybody Here Seen My Corpse?, though.

[Lago PARANOIA]

Half-elves - 2. You trade the human's bonus feat and skill points for a shitty skill focus feat. I could only see playing this if you were a non-INT caster who wanted an elf-only archetype.

Half-elves have a few other advantages to them.

1.) The Paragon Surge spell. It's great. If you're able to extend it long enough (like, say, putting it in all of your slots, rods of Extend Spell, having your animal companion/familiar hold the charge on it, Prayer Beads of Karma, etc.) you can start applying it to, say, item creation feats. Very handy.

2.) Sometimes, the human favored class bonus sucks. For example, while only blaster clerics really care about penetrating demonic spell resistance, getting extra uses of the Destruction Domain's smite is really handy for cleric monks with the Domain Strike feat. And very rarely, a half-elf will get a good favored class bonus that neither the elf nor human gets, such as the +.25/level to evolution pool bonus for summoners.

3.) If your build requires Skill Focus, Martial Weapon Proficiency, or Exotic Weapon Proficiency you're not that bad off compared to a human. And some of the half-elf advantages ain't that bad: Fey Thoughts is a great racial talent. If your DM lets you use poison, Thinblood Resilience gives you a better version of the underrated Use Poison ability.

[Lago PARANOIA]

Oh, yeah. And half-elf wizards get one other really good trick. They can combine the Sin Magic Specialist archetype with the Spellbinder archetype to put spells that they want to prepare in their extra spell slots that aren't part of their original school. So if you, say, want to be a summoner wizard with the Acadamae Graduate feat but don't want to give up the illusion school, you can go Necromancy or Enchantment and just replace those spells with appropriate Summon Monster abilities.

Granted, you miss out on Arcane Bond. On the other hand, since you're a half-elf (and this is the advantage that half-elves have over elves) you can snag Eldritch Heritage: Arcane and get it back anyway.

[Smeelbo]

...because, as you may have noticed, all the other humanoid races went extinct a long time ago.

But seriously, I almost always play humans because of their flexibility. The alternate favored class option for human spontaneous spell casters is to add a spell known of not the highest level you can cast. This is equivalent to a feat, Extra Arcana I think, at every level.

Smeelbo Baggends
Abuser of BBCodes

[Stinktopus]

Pathfinder Online sounds like the World of Hackcraft satirical game from the Knights of the Dinner Table comics.

[ishy]

With paragon surge, keep in mind that you can only pick a feat on the first cast of the day.

Also, the half-races can pick the human alternate favoured class bonus as well.

And the half-elf summoner alternate favoured class bonus is quite good.
You also need skill focus if you want to grab arcane heritage.

Half orcs are quite nice too. For example, IIRC you can trade dark vision for +1 skill point / level, grab the +1 luck bonus to all saves (and a +1 to all luck bonuses trait for a +2 to all saves) or a bite attack, endurance as a bonus feat if you need it as a preq

[sandmann]

I really want everyone here to stop what they are doing and start downloading the "Ultimate Intrigue" playtest. Paizo is presenting their new class, the vigilante. It's a batman-daredevil-ripoff, and it. is. Bad. Gloriously bad. The class has base abilities and abilities it gets from choosing a specialization, and both types of abilities are comically fail-tastic.
The base abilities are all bad. REALLY BAD. 9-lvl gives you the ability to look like a bum. No, I am not exaggerating, the abilities name is "Many Guises", and it lets you look like a "common laborer, farmer or peasent of any gender". At lvl 9. And no, he cannot look like a specific bum (that is his 19(!!!)-lvl ability) and he does not get any ability or skill that a farmer has. Have I already explained that this is his 9-lvl ability?
As a specialization, you can choose between 4 different ones, all giving access to one base ability and several special talents. So, do you want to change your BAB from 3/4 to full, or do you want to cast spells like a wizard? Yes, the original sorcerer/wizard spell list up until 6-lvl-spells. And you have a spellbook like a wizard, so yes, you can copy spells from scrolls or other spellbooks. And the other 2 choices are "sneak attack, only worse", because hell, THAT class feature was desperately in need of a nerf, and "cast spells as an inquisitor".

Look it up. 14 pages that will make your day.

[RelentlessImp]

I really want everyone here to stop what they are doing and start downloading the "Ultimate Intrigue" playtest. Paizo is presenting their new class, the vigilante. It's a batman-daredevil-ripoff, and it. is. Bad. Gloriously bad. The class has base abilities and abilities it gets from choosing a specialization, and both types of abilities are comically fail-tastic.
The base abilities are all bad. REALLY BAD. 9-lvl gives you the ability to look like a bum. No, I am not exaggerating, the abilities name is "Many Guises", and it lets you look like a "common laborer, farmer or peasent of any gender". At lvl 9. And no, he cannot look like a specific bum (that is his 19(!!!)-lvl ability) and he does not get any ability or skill that a farmer has. Have I already explained that this is his 9-lvl ability?
As a specialization, you can choose between 4 different ones, all giving access to one base ability and several special talents. So, do you want to change your BAB from 3/4 to full, or do you want to cast spells like a wizard? Yes, the original sorcerer/wizard spell list up until 6-lvl-spells. And you have a spellbook like a wizard, so yes, you can copy spells from scrolls or other spellbooks. And the other 2 choices are "sneak attack, only worse", because hell, THAT class feature was desperately in need of a nerf, and "cast spells as an inquisitor".

Look it up. 14 pages that will make your day.

Today on "Obvious Shit": Paizo cannot find their asses with both hands, a detailed map, a GPS, canteen, camel, and a tribe of Bedouin to lead them to it. News at 11.

[Slade]

I really want everyone here to stop what they are doing and start downloading the "Ultimate Intrigue" playtest. Paizo is presenting their new class, the vigilante. It's a batman-daredevil-ripoff, and it. is. Bad. Gloriously bad. The class has base abilities and abilities it gets from choosing a specialization, and both types of abilities are comically fail-tastic.
The base abilities are all bad. REALLY BAD. 9-lvl gives you the ability to look like a bum. No, I am not exaggerating, the abilities name is "Many Guises", and it lets you look like a "common laborer, farmer or peasent of any gender". At lvl 9. And no, he cannot look like a specific bum (that is his 19(!!!)-lvl ability) and he does not get any ability or skill that a farmer has. Have I already explained that this is his 9-lvl ability?
As a specialization, you can choose between 4 different ones, all giving access to one base ability and several special talents. So, do you want to change your BAB from 3/4 to full, or do you want to cast spells like a wizard? Yes, the original sorcerer/wizard spell list up until 6-lvl-spells. And you have a spellbook like a wizard, so yes, you can copy spells from scrolls or other spellbooks. And the other 2 choices are "sneak attack, only worse", because hell, THAT class feature was desperately in need of a nerf, and "cast spells as an inquisitor".

Look it up. 14 pages that will make your day.

Actually, you cast as a Arcanist without spell points.
They get a prepared and a spells/day. They spontaneously cast from prepared (noticed you prepare 4, but cast spells/day 2 + Int/day).

They (Warlocks) get a few cool talents (Alchemist bombs, mystic strike, buffed arcane strike, elemental armor, etc), but you'll likely be wasting all your talents on the next spell level.
Yes, in order to cast 2nd level spells, you have to waste a talent (you get on every 2 levels). So you choose between cool stuff and spell taxes.

Stalker and Avenger aren't as bad though.
Yes, 1st level sucks. The Avengers only class feature is full bab.


At least the Stalker gets a weird version of sneak attack. It deals 1d6 when opponent unaware. But only 1d4 when flanking/deny dex. Like Unchained, concealment doesn't stop it.

8th level: he can target touch AC. Twisting fear means intimidate/feat = deal damage. He can fall without taking damage (take that monk) plus always lands on feet so never falls prone (immune to trip?).
He can punch a foe damaging a nearby one .

When those two FINALLY reach level 2, they get some decent abilities.
So if a game starts above 1st, they are okay options (not great yet).

Really, if they combined Avenger and Stalker, you might have a decent class. Also combine Zealot and Warlock (a mystic theurge that must waste talents to progress either side of its casting)

[Roog]

With paragon surge, keep in mind that you can only pick a feat on the first cast of the day.

There's a feat to fix that - Emergency Attunement

[Lago PARANOIA]

Because I was inspired by some of the other Pathfinder Class Guides, I'm making one specifically for the wizard summoner variant. I think that, like the 3.5E D&D cleric loaded up with sourcebooks, it's the best all-around type of summoner.

However, this bad boy is really unfinished right now. I still need to do more feats, more spells, put in the prestige classes, and above-all go through the summoning lists. And then I have to go through the 32-page Monster Summoner's Handbook, too. Ugh. Note that since it's a Google Doc anyone can look at and edit it in real time. The other big summoner's handbook (the concept, not the particular class), one which I contributed to even, is basically a huge clusterfuck at this point because of said open-editing. But since you guys aren't retarded I trust you. Don't let me down.

Relevant Link.

[ishy]

Huh. The Balanced Summoning discovery is weird. I'm assuming it is written for use with alternate summon rules?

The two creatures must have alignments that are opposite along at least one axis (chaotic and lawful or evil and good).

For example, if you cast summon monster III, you could summon a celestial wolf and a fiendish hyena from the 2nd-level list.

Hyena*
Wolf*

Creatures on Table 10–1 marked with an “*” are summoned with the celestial template, if you are good, and the fiendish template, if you are evil. If you are neutral, you may choose which template to apply to the creature. Creatures marked with an “*” always have an alignment that matches yours, regardless of their usual alignment.

[Lago PARANOIA]

Is there something wrong with summoning a good-aligned fiendish hyena? Also glad to see that Lion King-style stereotypes still apply.

EDIT: Though, that's a genuine benefit to balanced summoning, in that if you're non-neutral you can summon critters with an off-aligned template. I'll be sure to add that in there.