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Shadowrun 4e newbie questions
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Zaranthan
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

There's plenty of mechanical and fluff support for megas hiring skillwire-bearers for nearly minimum wage and having them do the grunt work in the labs, bouncing around projects and swapping skillsofts from day to day.
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OgreBattle
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

So setting wise how does open warfare work and how does it affect travel? What are the factions that engage in "tanks and bombers" warfare?

I'm guessing there's various mercenary companies runners can join with.
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Wiseman
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Joined: 09 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Some more questions:

Can Shadowrun work with tactical movement? If so, how much space should a square on the mat represent?

And also. How much is a nuyen worth? I've found the table describing costs for common goods and services, and while some things are kind of informative, others are still confusing. Basically, how much does an average wage slave make in a week? A month? A year?

Also, how replacable are a lot of the businesses in the game? I know they couldn't do this officially because of copyright, but if I wanted to replace the fictional business with real one's like say, McDonalds, Wal-Mart, Coca-cola and so forth, how would I go about doing that?

Finally, how much is an acceptable reward for a run? Using the build points rules, I'm leaning towards 10-15 BP per run, but how much nuyen is a good payment?
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Lokathor
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Joined: 01 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
Can Shadowrun work with tactical movement? If so, how much space should a square on the mat represent?


It's possible, but I'm not sure that being ultra precise about distances ever added much compared to the basic spatial effect of just having minis in approximately the right locations.

Depending on the scale of the location, 2m per square/hex works out well enough. That basically gives you the same scale as DnD's 5ft/square.

Quote:
How much is a nuyen worth?

There's a chart near the start of the 4e20a book that once gave the impression that 1 nuyen is like 1 modern dollar. It seemed to work for any time I needed to make up a random price or bribe amount. Some hobo who might want 20 bucks to answer a question in a modern police procedural show would just ask for 20 nuyen during a similar shadowrun legwork scene, and so on.

Quote:
Also, how replacable are a lot of the businesses in the game?


That's a matter of taste I think. Assuming that you're not worried about fluff differences, it comes down to if you want to have real world businesses doing evil things. Like, if your group would find it to all be a huge joke to square off against McDonalds, but they also like that it's a huge joke, then that's great. Other folks might like to maintain the more alien and disconnected feeling of totally fictional corps.

Quote:
Finally, how much is an acceptable reward for a run? Using the build points rules, I'm leaning towards 10-15 BP per run, but how much nuyen is a good payment?


I was running some of the Shadowrun Missions adventures, giving about 5bp per run and thousands of nuyen per player. Assume that each run takes half or more of a month when you factor in the time between runs, and you should probably pay at least enough that they can cover lifestyle costs. Also somewhere between 10k-20k in take home on top of lifestyle for a month's work isn't bad for early runs. Depends on how fast you want to do advancement, but generally your take home cash should go up over time and your BP per mission should not go up over time.

Let them also potentially negotiate for higher payments in corp scrip (which has to be spent within that corp, but most corps can provide most things anyway, so it's not any huge drawback), or have "treasures" be available on the run (such as equipment that can be easily taken and kept or resold), or being paid in equipment / 'ware directly (which is a good deal for the Johnson if they're somehow able to procure items for below the normal market value). Things that keep it interesting.
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Last edited by Lokathor on Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:50 am; edited 2 times in total
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OgreBattle
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Wiseman wrote:

Also, how replacable are a lot of the businesses in the game? I know they couldn't do this officially because of copyright, but if I wanted to replace the fictional business with real one's like say, McDonalds, Wal-Mart, Coca-cola and so forth, how would I go about doing that?


You can look up the British and Dutch East India companies for how control of distribution and commodities leads to murderkilling
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deaddmwalking
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

De Beers.
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Trill
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Am I reading it correctly, that unless you reduce the dice pool to 0 through mana barriers and the conceal power a spirit will find you eventually?
Even if the dice pool is only 1 that means that they may get hits, ergo find you eventually (even if it takes a LONG time), right?


Last edited by Trill on Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Nath
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Joined: 28 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Trill wrote:
Am I reading it correctly, that unless you reduce the dice pool to 0 through mana barriers and the conceal power a spirit will find you eventually?
Even if the dice pool is only 1 that means that they may get hits, ergo find you eventually (even if it takes a LONG time), right?

With the 4th edition, the only other thing that prevent a searching spirit from finding the target is Critical glitch (see page 59, under "Extended Tests and Glitches").

While a critical glitch is likely with a Force 1 spirit, a higher Force bound spirit has decent chances of finding someone even thousands of kilometers away. With 144 rolls per day, A Threshold of 40,000 (worst case scenario, a target at the exact opposite side of the Earth, with someone insisting distance to be calculated on Earth surface) is only a couple of months away for a powerful enough spirit.

For some reasons the person who wrote the rules for 4th edition thought it was a good idea to use the new mechanic of Extended Roll instead of an Opposed Roll as in the previous editions, for spirits who no longer had domain restriction and could be bound.

With the 4th/20th Anniversary Edition, the gamemaster may apply the rule of diminishing pool that would restrict even the most powerful spirits to searching for a few hours at at best.
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Wiseman
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Is it just me or are adepts kind of uninteresting. Mechanically they seem to be okay, but most of it is kinda just numbers.

This is probably a rapid departure, but what if adepts worked kind of like conduits from inFamous (which I was playing recently). In oppsition to magicians they have a more focused powerset, being specialized in contrast to magicians being more generalist. Also, they wouldn't suffer drain like magicians, or not as much. Like you would have spheres such as fire adepts, charm adepts, motion adepts, martial adepts, shadow adepts and so forth. More focus on powers and abilities that make them distinct.
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Stahlseele
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Errr . . are you talking physical adepts or magical adepts here?
Because physical adepts are basically magical samurai.
And they are called adepts because they are supposed to be adept at one specific thing and things connected to it.

There was, in SR3, the way of the Adept. Where you could get discounts to the cost of certain powers adhering to the way and thus streamline and specialize the character.
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Longes
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Wiseman wrote:
Is it just me or are adepts kind of uninteresting. Mechanically they seem to be okay, but most of it is kinda just numbers.

This is probably a rapid departure, but what if adepts worked kind of like conduits from inFamous (which I was playing recently). In oppsition to magicians they have a more focused powerset, being specialized in contrast to magicians being more generalist. Also, they wouldn't suffer drain like magicians, or not as much. Like you would have spheres such as fire adepts, charm adepts, motion adepts, martial adepts, shadow adepts and so forth. More focus on powers and abilities that make them distinct.


That's basically what Aspected Magicians are supposed to be.
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Wiseman
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hmm... I'll have to take a look at that.
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Wiseman
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Are the ability maximums listed for your race the max at char creation or the max ever? If so, I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing?
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virgil
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

If I understand the context, then it's ever. Specifically, it depends on which maximum you're talking about. There's 'natural' maximum and 'augmented' maximum, the latter being half again as large. A human has a 'natural' maximum of 6, which can be raised by 1 with a positive quality or with genetic engineering. Said human can use any number of methods to raise an attribute, and even go over that max of 6, but the cumulative total can't exceed 9 (or 12 if they took the quality and genetic boost).

Now, I've seen some people argue that the 'augmented' maximum is based on the character's current attribute rather than their natural maximum - meaning that the Strength 4 human with genetic optimization can't go higher than 6 with spells/drugs/etc until they spend the BP/karma to raise it. I am not versed enough to know whether those people are super wrong or if I'm the munchkin powergamer trying to twist the rules.
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Wiseman
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

If that was house ruled as a max at char creation, would that be a bad thing?
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Stahlseele
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think in SR4 it was still absolute maximum and only in SR5 was it reduced to maximum right now.
If memory serves correct, a human could, in theory, if he found enough ways to actually get that big of a plus on an attribute, start with a 1(9) Natural(Improved) Attribute.
And only in SR5 did they limit that to current attribute +half.
I could be wrong though, in which case i suspect Frank will gleefully and hurtfully correct me on this.
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Nath
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

virgil wrote:
If I understand the context, then it's ever. Specifically, it depends on which maximum you're talking about. There's 'natural' maximum and 'augmented' maximum, the latter being half again as large. A human has a 'natural' maximum of 6, which can be raised by 1 with a positive quality or with genetic engineering. Said human can use any number of methods to raise an attribute, and even go over that max of 6, but the cumulative total can't exceed 9 (or 12 if they took the quality and genetic boost).

Now, I've seen some people argue that the 'augmented' maximum is based on the character's current attribute rather than their natural maximum - meaning that the Strength 4 human with genetic optimization can't go higher than 6 with spells/drugs/etc until they spend the BP/karma to raise it. I am not versed enough to know whether those people are super wrong or if I'm the munchkin powergamer trying to twist the rules.

People are super wrong. They mix up the rules for attributes and skills.
Quote:
Attribute Ratings, Shadowrun 4th edition, page 62
Physical and Mental attributes have a maximum natural rating of 6 plus or minus metatype modifiers, depending on metatype (see p. 73). The maximum augmented attribute value for each metatype is equal to 1.5 times this figure, rounded down (see the Metatype Attribute Table, p. 73).

Skill Ratings, Shadowrun 4th edition, page 63
Adept powers, implants or magic may provide bonus dice to a skill, creating a modified skill rating, but this does not change the base skill rating. The maximum modified rating allowed is 1.5 times the natural rating (making 9 the maximum achievable, or 10 with the Aptitude quality).


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Stahlseele
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Or that yes.
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Trill
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

IIRC in SR5 it's your current attribute +4
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