Let's Play The Gates of Death: Fighting Fantasy (Sch#12)

SGamerz · Post by **SGamerz** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:50 am

South then east

Darth Rabbitt wrote:FF fans are weird. Going by online reviews, the average fan seems to hate Scorpion Swamp and love House of Hell.

I'm one of those who find it hard to hate UK Steve's books despite some of their immense difficulty. He's so much better at building up the atmosphere and getting me immersed in the story. I always felt HoH is quite effective at the horror theme and legit making feel like a paranoid guy trapped in a haunted house and not sure where it's safe to go.

Scorpion Swamp is more playable as a game, but it just doesn't feel very immersive. I never get the sense that I'm travelling through a dangerous swamp.

Also, while I do consider difficulty as a judging criteria on how good a gamebook is, I'm also more forgiving towards UK Steve's type of difficulty. His books tend to be playable once you have worked out the optimal path to get through the book. HoH is worse than most in this regard since you need a minimum possible Fear stat even for the optimal path to work, but I'm more willing to forgive that compared to the Livingstone/early Jonathan Green type of difficulty where you still struggle to win fairly even after you know the optimal path AND start with 12/24/12 stats.

Darth Rabbitt · Post by **Darth Rabbitt** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:12 am

Response spoilered to avoid distracting from the LP:

SGamerz wrote:I'm one of those who find it hard to hate UK Steve's books despite some of their immense difficulty. He's so much better at building up the atmosphere and getting me immersed in the story. I always felt HoH is quite effective at the horror theme and legit making feel like a paranoid guy trapped in a haunted house and not sure where it's safe to go.

It's fairly well written (game design complaints aside) and it gets the feeling of paranoia right, but I feel like it does so in the most ham-fisted way possible. I like the concept but not the implementation (which is how I feel about most of UK Steve's work, but I feel like in his other books the implementation is fairer; more on that below). I might have also suffered from first reading HoH around the same time as Beneath Nightmare Castle (as those two were my first two Fighting Fantasy books), which I felt delivered both better scares and better gameplay (while being more or less built on the same model), which made it harder to judge HoH on its own merits.

Scorpion Swamp is more playable as a game, but it just doesn't feel very immersive. I never get the sense that I'm travelling through a dangerous swamp.

Yeah, I'll openly admit that Scorpion Swamp's writing is pretty minimal.

Also, while I do consider difficulty as a judging criteria on how good a gamebook is, I'm also more forgiving towards UK Steve's type of difficulty. His books tend to be playable once you have worked out the optimal path to get through the book. HoH is worse than most in this regard since you need a minimum possible Fear stat even for the optimal path to work, but I'm more willing to forgive that compared to the Livingstone/early Jonathan Green type of difficulty where you still struggle to win fairly even after you know the optimal path AND start with 12/24/12 stats.

I will give him that. Books like Creature of Havoc and The Citadel of Chaos really are possible to complete with minimal stat rolls once you've figured everything out. If House of Hell's Fear stat requirement was lowered, it would rather have been the same and I'd consider it fair.

South to, and East from, Titan Square it is!

You head down the road. There's a noise like marching feet behind you, but you are moving at speed and can't see anybody. You come to a crossroads.

(I assume we continue east. Mr. Patio is wearing the swift boots.)

You are racing down the East Road towards the city gates. Glancing over your shoulder you see that the Demon Horde is catching up with you. It looks like you've picked up every demon in Salamonis, too many to count. At their head is a demon wearing expensive robes and a golden crown. You realize this must be King Salamon himself. Not even he could escape the demon curse.

The noise they make is like a herd of cattle, moaning and grunting, their feet pounding on the cobblestones. You push yourself to run faster, and with the swift boots on your feet, you feel as if you are almost flying.

Now you see the gatehouse ahead of you. It's been scorched by fire and the gates themselves have burnt down. Several dead citizens are scattered on the ground and a unit of five tired and bloody soldiers stands guard.

You spot Lady Webspinn's carriage, ready to leave, with its four black horses harnessed to the traces. There's no sign of the driver or Lady Webspinn anywhere, however.

Stop running and look inside the carriage?
Make a run for it towards the gates?
Ask the soldiers to help you fight the Demon Horde?

SGamerz · Post by **SGamerz** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:23 am

Look in the carriage.

Darth Rabbitt wrote:Response spoilered to avoid distracting from the LP:

I will give him that. Books like Creature of Havoc and The Citadel of Chaos really are possible to complete with minimal stat rolls once you've figured everything out. If House of Hell's Fear stat requirement was lowered, it would rather have been the same and I'd consider it fair.

There aren't that many FF books that can be completed with minimal stats.....and if I'm not wrong UK Steve has written more of those than other FF authors (not that they're all fun....I was really bored by Starship Traveller despite it being potentially possible to complete without rolling any dice), so I give him distinct credit for that.

Thaluikhain · Post by **Thaluikhain** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:31 pm

Yeah, check out the carriage. Asking 5 tired soldiers to fight off a demon horde seems less wise that getting inside the thing designed to move people rapidly.

I want to like HoH, it's got things going for it, the whole Haunted House thing, and it's the first (only?) book set in the real world, without being after the apocalypse or have everyone know superheroes exist. But while it throws lots of tropes together nicely, there isn't much to it, IMHO.

SS, by comparison, seems like it wants to be a modern sandbox game decades too early and in paper form. Not done great, most clearings are totally unrelated too each other, there's little worldbuilding, but, well, I've got both books, and I've replayed one of them to completion without deciding to chet and finished about 2 hours ago, and it wasn't HoH. When I die in HoH (or most FF), goddamnit, have to start again from the beginning, go through the same stuff (with some variations) over again, and I usually reach the "Nope, I've had enough, time for cheating" part long before I've tried enough times to win. With SS, I get a head start in that I can choose a different one of the quests, and take a different route and so the next time something kills me, it's new content.

In both cases, the concept is better than the execution, and I feel the concept of a sandbox game works better than the concept of a haunted house setting.

Darth Rabbitt · Post by **Darth Rabbitt** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:07 pm

You run over to the carriage and open the door to find Lady Webspinn and her maid, Liara, inside, dressed for travel. Liara appears to be comforting her mistress. She has her arms round Lady Webspinn and her face is buried in her neck.

Get in the carriage?
Try your luck on foot and head for the gates?

SlyJohnny · Post by **SlyJohnny** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:32 pm

There's a typo in the passage there. It's supoposed to say "The maid who was too sick to move earlier has turned, and is currently chewing out Lady Webspinn's esophagus."

Try on foot. I sort of want to get in to the carriage so we can kill the maid and steal it, but the way the text is phrased makes me think this perfectly obvious trap is going to cost us 3 stamina points as the maid gets in a "surprise attack" and we might not wind up getting the carriage anyway.

Thaluikhain · Post by **Thaluikhain** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:25 am

Yeah, while I also want to try for the carriage, if the game is saying it's an obvious trap we should pay attention and leave it alone.

Darth Rabbitt · Post by **Darth Rabbitt** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:07 am

The demon maid doesn't get a free attack, but if we tried using a potion against her she'd bust all of them. At SKILL 8 STAMINA 9, she's not much of a threat to Colin with the khopesh, but we wouldn't get anything from fighting her; victory leads to the same section as below. And because we could have fought her here, I'm counting this section as a "fight" for the purposes of the stat penalty we picked up digging for treasure.

You quickly climb up into the driver's seat out of immediate danger, but as you look at the four black horses you see that they have become possessed as well, with mad, demonic eyes and teeth like alligators'.

A cry of triumph rises from the Demon Horde. They have you cornered...but then there's a shout as the five soldiers cut a path through them towards the carriage.

'Run!' one of them shouts, holding a space open for you. 'We'll deal with these fiends.'

Jump down and try to run past the demons?
Jump down and fight the Demon Horde alongside the soldiers?
Try to drive the carriage?

The first two options lead to the same section as they did the last time they were offered.

SlyJohnny · Post by **SlyJohnny** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:20 am

Thaluikhain · Post by **Thaluikhain** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:50 pm

Yeah, definitely run. I do like the idea of demon horses, but not so much to not run away from them.

maglag · Post by **maglag** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:21 pm

Follow last wishes of the faceless nameless ally mooks.

Darth Rabbitt · Post by **Darth Rabbitt** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:00 pm

The soldiers step aside and salute you as you run past them towards the gates.

'Lady Webspinn and the scholars sent us here to make sure you got safely out of the city,' they shout. 'Good luck! We'll try to hold these filthy demons back and give you more time.'

You are still wearing the swift silver boots and are running like the wind. You are soon through the gate and on the road to Trolltooth Pass. You haven't gone very far, however, before you find the way ahead blocked by a group of demon farmers, armed with pitchforks, shovels, flails and scythes, too many to fight.

Carry on running and hope your boots will take you past the farmers?
Use smoke-oil?
Leave the road and try to get away from them?

SlyJohnny · Post by **SlyJohnny** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:16 am

Let's try to go around. Leave the road.

MisterDee · Post by **MisterDee** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:28 am

Leave the road - I figure at some point the boots will run out.

(If the maid can auto-break all our smoke oil, maybe we're not screwed yet?)

Thaluikhain · Post by **Thaluikhain** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:41 am

Yeah, leave the road.

Darth Rabbitt · Post by **Darth Rabbitt** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:37 am

MisterDee wrote:If the maid can auto-break all our smoke oil, maybe we're not screwed yet?

Smoke-oil works on her (after realizing what she's done, she gives you a gift from the late Lady Webspinn and then runs off in grief), it's any other potions she auto-breaks ("use smoke-oil" is a different choice there than "use a potion".)

You don't make it past the demon farmers before they overwhelm you. Now they pick you up and carry you back to Salamonis, eager to show off their captive. The demons in the city howl and caper and laugh in triumph next to Lady Webspinn's carriage at the feet of the demon king. You are just able to struggle to your feet and find that the soldiers are fighting a desperate last stand.

Try to run past the demons? (this leads to the same choice we took before, so presumably we'd try to carry on running this time if we took this)
Fight the Demon Horde alongside the soldiers?
Try to drive the carriage?

SlyJohnny · Post by **SlyJohnny** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:54 am

Heh, run past this time, I guess.

Thaluikhain · Post by **Thaluikhain** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:40 pm

Huh, I had to re-read that to check it wasn't an instakill you'd rewinded past.

Keep running, yeah.

Darth Rabbitt · Post by **Darth Rabbitt** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:15 pm

Thaluikhain wrote:Huh, I had to re-read that to check it wasn't an instakill you'd rewinded past.

I'd have made a note of it. That section's really weird, because at no other point in the book has it been suggested that demon-possessed people want to do anything other than just tear any non-demonic creature they find apart on the spot, and nothing's happened that would make it seem like you are an exception. But anyways, keeping on running:

You barrel into the demon farmers, fast as the wind.

Test your Luck. (1,4=5; Lucky).

You manage to get past the demon farmers and hurry on down the road towards Trolltooth Pass, running as fast as the swift silver boots will carry you. You're just thinking you're out of danger when you hear a thundering sound behind you and throw yourself to the side of the road, narrowly avoiding being run down by Lady Webspinn's driverless carriage. As it rattles past you, you see that it's being drawn by four demon horses.

You dust yourself down and run after it. Soon you see the low hills that mark the entrance to Trolltooth Pass, which will lead you to the Plain of Bronze. You hardly tire at all, and as night falls you are still running. At some point you fall asleep, but still the boots keep on running. When you wake the next morning you find that you are deep in Trolltooth Pass, with high cliffs on either side of you and still running.

You are growing weary, however, and feel your strength dimming. (Lose 1 STAMINA point.) You slow down and tramp on, hardly noticing your surroundings, and as the sun starts to dip in the sky you at last see a huge statue of the Goddess Sindla standing atop the cliffs on the northern side of the pass. Part of its head and torso are missing along with its right arm. Next to it are some ramparts and a crumbling lookout tower. Below it, by the side of the road, are the remains of a lower fort, tangled with weeds and thorn bushes.

You have made it to Broken Goddess Fort. As you get close you see the wreck of Lady Webspinn's carriage that must have crashed into the cliffs. You sit down, exhausted. Your boots are in tatters from running so far, and you take them off and throw them away (remove them from your Equipment List.)

Explore the surrounding area?
Go into the fort?

Adventure Sheet
Colin Hunt
SKILL: 11/11
STAMINA: 14/18
LUCK: 7/11
Equipment: Traveling Clothes, Lucky Anchor Charm, Hero's Medallion (+2 SKILL), Silver Ring
Vials of Smoke-Oil: 0
Gold Pieces: 18
Weapons: Lord Azzur's Khopesh (+1 Attack Strength, extra +1 attack/damage vs. demons)
Items: Fishhook, Brass Compass, Poison Antidote, Silver Trowel, Silver Compass, Map of Trolltooth Pass
Healing Items: Harp of Healing (+8 STAMINA when a combat would be lost), Horn of Plenty (restores STAMINA to Initial level), Healing Ointment (+4 STAMINA), Dates (+3 STAMINA when eaten)
Keys: Icefinger Key
Magic Potions: 'Collywobbles', 'Dragon's Breath,' 'Nostalgia' Perfume, 'Pretty as a Picture,' 'Thick as Thieves'

Thaluikhain · Post by **Thaluikhain** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:20 am

Explore the surrounding area

SlyJohnny · Post by **SlyJohnny** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:49 am

We have to find the magic items the other adventurer was looking for, that are essential to finding our goal. Search the place.

Darth Rabbitt · Post by **Darth Rabbitt** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:13 pm

You go over to the shattered carriage and find poor Lady Webspinn's body where it has been thrown into the road. You bury her beneath some rocks and then remember that she traveled with a basket of food. You search for it and find it under one of the carriage seats.You open the basket and find a meal of ham, some bread and cheese.

To eat a meal, add up to 4 STAMINA points. Alternatively, if you want to save it for later, add 1 meal to your Provisions.

Explore the road further?
Go into the fort?

Also, do we want to eat the meal now to go back up to full health, or save it for later?

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:34 pm

Save it. It's almost always worth leaving a little room in the tank in case you run across a non-saveable heal. Then explore further.

Thaluikhain · Post by **Thaluikhain** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:37 am

Yeah, save and explore further.

Darth Rabbitt · Post by **Darth Rabbitt** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:59 am

You walk a little way along the road and hear a whizzing sound. You look up to see a group of Goblin archers on top of the cliffs on the southern side of the pass, firing arrows down at you. You spot a cave beneath them.

Run back to the fort?
Shelter in the cave?

Adventure Sheet
Colin Hunt
SKILL: 11/11
STAMINA: 14/18
LUCK: 7/11
Equipment: Traveling Clothes, Lucky Anchor Charm, Hero's Medallion (+2 SKILL), Silver Ring
Vials of Smoke-Oil: 0
Gold Pieces: 18
Weapons: Lord Azzur's Khopesh (+1 Attack Strength, extra +1 attack/damage vs. demons)
Items: Fishhook, Brass Compass, Poison Antidote, Silver Trowel, Silver Compass, Map of Trolltooth Pass
Healing Items: Harp of Healing (+8 STAMINA when a combat would be lost), Horn of Plenty (restores STAMINA to Initial level), Healing Ointment (+4 STAMINA), Dates (+3 STAMINA when eaten) 1 meal of Provisions (+4 STAMINA when eaten)
Keys: Icefinger Key
Magic Potions: 'Collywobbles', 'Dragon's Breath,' 'Nostalgia' Perfume, 'Pretty as a Picture,' 'Thick as Thieves'