Player Agency in Masks: A New Generation

[shinimasu]

The idea I think is supposed to be that clearing the condition through drama is the carrot. You're clearing a penalty and restoring your health track. The condition itself is usually the result of failing an unrelated roll which itself rewards an experience point, and can in some cases be avoided by spending Team if you have it.

So you have
Carrot1: Encourage players to roll in the first place by offering success on a hit and exp on a miss. The idea is that the Exp is worth more than the condition you might get from failing. I don't really think it is but that's it's own thing.

Carrot2: Encourage players to be dramatic by letting poor behavior clear conditions.

Stick Repellent: The team pool, for when failure definitely is not worth the exp carrot.

My specific gripe with Conditions as Stick is that they are really the only stick. Label shifting occupies this weird grey area of stickdom since if I shift Freak up and danger down, then maybe one of my Playbook moves is useless but I can still use the Basic moves just fine.

[Guts]

Just popping up to say I've got Masks and finding it one of the strongest implementations of the engine. It's like a more buffed Monsterhearts, in that it also "funnels" (thanks Shinimasu) players into genre tropes and sitches only here you get a lot more gears moving.

Btw, a question: do you think it's possible to emulate older heroes fiction like X-men or Justice League with some option or advanced moves or something, or it's scope is ultra-focused on young heroes?

[saithorthepyro]

Depends on your definition, modern comics can also tend to have a lot of drama that happens often and sometimes very badly. Just without the excuse of teen angst driving it instead. I'll also second that people might prefer this to FATE because FATE can feel bland and like it doesn't have an identity. Admittedly I don't know if Apocalypse games are any better.

[Guts]

Well, lack of identity is not a problem PbtA have. On the contrary, they're so focused in their scopes that's hard to adapt them to anything else. Thus my question about mature heros with Masks. The answer is probably NO, but.. who knows.

[saithorthepyro]

The fact that it's a system that has been adapted for so many genre's without issue point more to PBTA having that problem than not. Each individual sub-game may flesh it out to a degree, but the base itself has to suitably generic for it to have been used so many time for different genres.

[shinimasu]

I contend that labels and influence barely work for teenagers, they would definitely feel out of place on full grown adults. Grown up supers have their petty drama but they are at least expected to know who they are and what they're about.

[Guts]

The fact that it's a system that has been adapted for so many genre's without issue point more to PBTA having that problem than not. Each individual sub-game may flesh it out to a degree, but the base itself has to suitably generic for it to have been used so many time for different genres.

Interesting point. See, based on the hacks I've played or read I would say the engine actually excels at one thing: player-on-player conflicts (drama?) in a player-driven environment. Like a blank canvas for players to express themselves, and fuck each other in the process, limited by genre-apropriated brushes. The engine is just average for everything else. And if we analyse the most well regarded hacks...

- Apocalypse World = murderhobos drama
- Monsterhearts = teen monsters drama
- Masks: a New Generation = teen supers drama

..we'll notice it's right there: drama. Masks main motif is not really the PCs superpowers (as FrankTrollman thought up above), it's drama. Same for AW and MH.

Now take a look at the less regarded ones:

- Dungeon World = D&D-aping
- Tremulus = CoC-aping
- The Sprawl = Shadowrun-aping

Notice the lack of drama in those, and how they're less player-driven (little blank canvas) and more "GM brings adventure to feed PCs" instead. They seem to go only halfway with the ethos established by the original AW.

Makes sense?

Edit: also, the "funnel" shinimasu talks about. The best PbtA are those with stronger (narrower?) funnels.

[Guts]

High-level Masks characters are capable of unlocking access to one or two "adult moves." One of them is this:

When you wield your powers with precision or grace,
roll + Freak. On a hit, choose one. On a 10+, choose
two.
• take hold of something vulnerable to you
• create something useful from
your environment
• neutralize an opponent or
threat, at least for now

I don't really know what to make of this. On paper this looks like an extremely valuable upgrade. A 7-9 becomes a clean success with no downside! Unfortunately, it's really hard as a player to predict whether this will be worth taking because the explanation of when this move triggers is a divide by zero error. See, learning adult moves does not mean you lose the basic moves, and the book tells us that "Unleashing your powers is trying something you’re not sure you can really
pull off, whereas wielding your powers is doing something with mastery and
control, so you get exactly the effect you want," but when you "wield your powers" you still roll dice and possibly miss, which by definition means you're not sure whether you can pull it off, and so arguably you were actually "unleashing them."

It seems adult moves are better versions of basic moves. Indeed that comes from Apocalypse World, where you have advanced moves superseding basic versions.

As far as I know, Masks doesn't actually define "defeat" at any point,

By reading the book I got the impression it's a matter of triggering all their conditions. With the caveat that some conditions can have a "give up and surrender" effect (like Hopeless) which trigger seems... contextual? How do I make a villain hopeless? Can I use provoke on them?

[saithorthepyro]

The fact that it's a system that has been adapted for so many genre's without issue point more to PBTA having that problem than not. Each individual sub-game may flesh it out to a degree, but the base itself has to suitably generic for it to have been used so many time for different genres.

Interesting point. See, based on the hacks I've played or read I would say the engine actually excels at one thing: player-on-player conflicts (drama?) in a player-driven environment. Like a blank canvas for players to express themselves, and fuck each other in the process, limited by genre-apropriated brushes. The engine is just average for everything else. And if we analyse the most well regarded hacks...

- Apocalypse World = murderhobos drama
- Monsterhearts = teen monsters drama
- Masks: a New Generation = teen supers drama

..we'll notice it's right there: drama. Masks main motif is not really the PCs superpowers (as FrankTrollman thought up above), it's drama. Same for AW and MH.

Now take a look at the less regarded ones:

- Dungeon World = D&D-aping
- Tremulus = CoC-aping
- The Sprawl = Shadowrun-aping

Notice the lack of drama in those, and how they're less player-driven (little blank canvas) and more "GM brings adventure to feed PCs" instead. They seem to go only halfway with the ethos established by the original AW.

Makes sense?

Edit: also, the "funnel" shinimasu talks about. The best PbtA are those with stronger (narrower?) funnels.

So then it's suited for every genre....if Player on Player conflict is part of the game. Is this supposed to make me like the game more or less? Because it sounds like the game advocates for PvP. Considering the difficulties I have keeping relatively normal groups from the occasional bout of that, what you are describing sounds like hell.

[Guts]

SaithorthePyro,

The PvP in this case is not physical though (at least not predominantly), but social.

So say, in Masks you're caught between the Legacy putting duty above everyone else, the Bull being rude and putting everybody down, and the Delinquent playing tricks at the wrong moment and disrupting the team. All the while having to deal with the big bad threatening your neighborhood right now. You won't necessarily fight your colleagues physically but you'll often have to stand up to what you believe and this will generate all sorts of conflicts.

This is the kind of PvP those PbtA produce. It's more of a HBO show than Super Street Fighter 2. If it sounds mildly interesting to you, give it a try. If not, don't fuss.

[Guts]

Another way to see it is "Playbook vs Activity" -oriented play.

Monsterhearts and Apocalypse World pertain to the former, where playbooks function as narratives to be explored, and where play change significantly depending on the choices of playbooks.

While the likes of Dungeon World and Monster of the Week pertain to the later, where playbooks are different ways to approach a central activity, that will be the same most of times.